California Prop 19, Legalize Marijuana? Vote Yes, or Vote No?

[SamsungVibrant]

So I have my mail in ballot, which I need to mail out as soon as possible. However, there is one proposition that I keep going back and forth on, and that is Prop 19:

"Legalize marijuana under California but not federal law. Permits local governments to regulate and tax commercial production, distribution, and sale of marijuana."

So here is the issue. I have no problem with people who want to smoke weed in the privacy of their own homes. I don't smoke weed nor do I have a desire to, but if someone wants to smoke it safely in their own home, they should be able to.

The problem with prop 19 is the way it is written. Appears to have been written poorly, with loop holes, and not enough emphasis on safety. It provides local law enforcement with no resources to assure people are not driving high. Additionally, the way the prop is currently written, many people who work with dangerous machinery, or anyone in any type of job that puts the public safety at jeopardy, may not be removed from the job if found to have marijuana in their system. Basically this opens a flood gate of lawsuits. Lets say a crane operator is high, gets fired, then sues his/her employer. The way the prop is written, it has many loop holes like this. Do you want high crane operators, etc...building your bridges and doing construction work on your freeways?

Additionally, if this prop makes it anyway easier for someone to drive high and kill just 1 person in this entire state, I would feel horrible, horrible that my vote led to someones death.

Also the additional income from taxing sales is totally a joke.

So I'm leaning towards a NO vote, but not sure, I keep going back and forth. I'm willing to vote yes if someone makes some good valid points.

What do you guys think? Some good points please, don't just say "dude smoke a joint."

 

[Josh2]

I don't know about where you live, but where I live I never hear about someone causing a ten car pile up or any kind of car crash because they were driving high. Yet it is almost a weekly occurrence that someone crashes while driving drunk. Marijuana is much safer than alcohol yet it is illegal whereas alcohol is legal. Also doesn't the proposition say that you have to be 21 to buy it? So you have somewhat of a mature person smoking it. Meaning they won't go driving around while they are high, unless they are ******ed. Marijuana poses not real threat to society. I mean, everyone in California smokes it anyway, might as well tax it to make some money off of it.

 

[hood420]

I hope similar legislation comes to Michigan. In the meantime I'll have to get a medical marijuana card...

 

[Vihzel]

If it passes, I believe that it will immediately be put down because of federal drug laws. Also... it would cause a HUGE problem with other states because of much easier trafficking. I just see painful lawsuits coming to CA... which is something we don't need.

 

[mcatdtDROID]

I say no for the simple reason that it enrages potheads.... boo hoo, you can't smoke, let me tell you how much sleep I lose over that...

 

[tommy_ed]

I say no for the simple reason that it enrages potheads.... boo hoo, you can't smoke, let me tell you how much sleep I lose over that...

surprising, you don't care about someone else's feelings and get your rocks off by opposing an issue that could help some people. You are the one that sounds enraged.. you seem like a very unhappy person. Maybe you should go smoke a joint and mellow out

 

[mcatdtDROID]

surprising, you don't care about someone else's feelings and get your rocks off by opposing an issue that could help some people. You are the one that sounds enraged.. you seem like a very unhappy person. Maybe you should go smoke a joint and mellow out

I'm not so weakwilled that I need a crutch in life to fall back on.

but don't kid yourself, the legalization movement doesn't care about your glaucoma. They are simply using your glaucoma as a means to try and justify their wanting to smoke it recreationally. Making the argument that 'it helps' sounds so much better than 'because I want to'

Personally, I think they should make smoking cigerrettes illegal WAY before they legalize marijuana

 

[tommy_ed]

I'm not so weakwilled that I need a crutch in life to fall back on.

but don't kid yourself, the legalization movement doesn't care about your glaucoma. They are simply using your glaucoma as a means to try and justify their wanting to smoke it recreationally. Making the argument that 'it helps' sounds so much better than 'because I want to'

Personally, I think they should make smoking cigerrettes illegal WAY before they legalize marijuana

why does it have to be a crutch? most people just smoke it recreationally. Saying that is like saying everyone who has a beer occasionally is an alcoholic.

And I wasn't referring to medical patients, marijuanna is already available to them. I'm referring to helping the people who are incarcerated right now for a crime that hurts NO ONE.

and why should cigarettes be illegal? soooo you basically think no one should be able to do anything you don't do? If you don't want to smoke pot then don't. Can you explain to me how someone smoking a joint in the privacy of their own home could possibly hurt you?

 

[mcatdtDROID]

you're mixing and matching.... the problem I have with cigerrettes isn't the "privacy of their own home' it's the second hand smoke, the cig buts thrown out car windows... the overall inconsiderate nature and if you don't think pot smokers wouldn't do the same thing, you're just being naive.

And don't distort the truth... noone gets thrown in PRISON for recreational amounts of marijuana. Don't make it seem that you know people in prison for 20 years because they had a joint in their vehicle when they got pulled over for speeding.

FWIW - I could lose my job for just that, 1 joint in the vehicle during a routine traffic stop. I've seen it happen. But I know that going into the game. So anyone in prison for drugs now, went into the game knowing what the rules were. No sympathy....

but it doesn't surprise me, your stance.... you continue to show the correlation between work ethic and smoking pot.... you pretty much make my point for me just in how you live your life. Thanks.

 

[Bob Maxey]

So I have my mail in ballot, which I need to mail out as soon as possible. However, there is one proposition that I keep going back and forth on, and that is Prop 19:

"Legalize marijuana under California but not federal law. Permits local governments to regulate and tax commercial production, distribution, and sale of marijuana."

So here is the issue. I have no problem with people who want to smoke weed in the privacy of their own homes. I don't smoke weed nor do I have a desire to, but if someone wants to smoke it safely in their own home, they should be able to.

The problem with prop 19 is the way it is written. Appears to have been written poorly, with loop holes, and not enough emphasis on safety. It provides local law enforcement with no resources to assure people are not driving high. Additionally, the way the prop is currently written, many people who work with dangerous machinery, or anyone in any type of job that puts the public safety at jeopardy, may not be removed from the job if found to have marijuana in their system. Basically this opens a flood gate of lawsuits. Lets say a crane operator is high, gets fired, then sues his/her employer. The way the prop is written, it has many loop holes like this. Do you want high crane operators, etc...building your bridges and doing construction work on your freeways?

Additionally, if this prop makes it anyway easier for someone to drive high and kill just 1 person in this entire state, I would feel horrible, horrible that my vote led to someones death.

Also the additional income from taxing sales is totally a joke.

So I'm leaning towards a NO vote, but not sure, I keep going back and forth. I'm willing to vote yes if someone makes some good valid points.

What do you guys think? Some good points please, don't just say "dude smoke a joint."

I have not read the law. Apparently you have, so please, feel free to correct me.

You mentioned operating machinery while high...getting fired... lawsuit. You (Californians) are making a huge mistake if you vote yes. It is unthinkable that an operator of a crane can be high, take a live, and walk away. That one point makes the law unthinkable in my mind.

Bob Maxey

 

[Bob Maxey]

why does it have to be a crutch? most people just smoke it recreationally. Saying that is like saying everyone who has a beer occasionally is an alcoholic.

And I wasn't referring to medical patients, marijuanna is already available to them. I'm referring to helping the people who are incarcerated right now for a crime that hurts NO ONE.

and why should cigarettes be illegal? soooo you basically think no one should be able to do anything you don't do? If you don't want to smoke pot then don't. Can you explain to me how someone smoking a joint in the privacy of their own home could possibly hurt you?

Hurts no one? I think if you check, you might discover lots of innocents are hurt by MJ. Lets say the herb is safe and it does no harm. Lets say the person buying the crap uses it responsibly.

What about the traffickers? They hurt people. DEA agents all over the world die because of MJ and other drugs. We are pretty much stuck with alcohol, so lets not add another product to the mix.

We here in Utah will likely have increased supply because California is so close. Perhaps our legislators can write a law that says if you are caught with the herb, you go to jail for ten years.

I do not live in CA so some will say I should not comment. True and fair. Lets hope the feds will tire of CA and those in charge and start putting MJ sellers in jail for long periods of time.

As for banning cigarettes, why that argument? Odd that you want to make one kind of smoke illegal and replace it with another smoke. Odd that CA does so much to rid its state of nicotine users but wants to pass a law that allows another kind of smoke.

It is easy to say that smoking a joint is a choice....like it, use it...don't like it, do not use it. What about the stoner that runs into my car or kills some innocent on the highway? And if legalized, it will happen because us humans cant be trusted to always use alcohol correctly. No shortage of proof of that statement.

Bob Maxey

 

[byteware]

I don't know about where you live, but where I live I never hear about someone causing a ten car pile up or any kind of car crash because they were driving high.

That's because there is no mobile system for testing for marijuana. They don't have a marijuana version of the breathalyzer test.

Marijuana is much safer than alcohol yet it is illegal whereas alcohol is legal.

I voted yes, but I feel the misinformation here needs to be corrected.

It is just as dangerous to drive high on Marijuana as it is drunk on Alcohol.

Your reaction time is slowed. That's dangerous. That's absolutely without a doubt dangerous.

Also doesn't the proposition say that you have to be 21 to buy it? So you have somewhat of a mature person smoking it. Meaning they won't go driving around while they are high, unless they are ******ed.

People high on Marijuana aren't known for making the BEST decisions.

Marijuana poses not real threat to society. I mean, everyone in California smokes it anyway, might as well tax it to make some money off of it.

I would like some way to test to see if someone is impaired by marijuana (like the breathalyzer test for Alcohol).

Other than that, I completely agree with you.

 

[byteware]

If it passes, I believe that it will immediately be put down because of federal drug laws.

I'm not so sure that's true. As long as it is grown in California, and is used in California, then I think the state has a case for it overriding federal law.

It would definitely not fall under the interstate commerce clause.

However, they might have an issue under the General welfare clause.

 

[byteware]

What about the traffickers? They hurt people. DEA agents all over the world die because of MJ and other drugs. We are pretty much stuck with alcohol, so lets not add another product to the mix.

Are you arguing for legalization or against it? All of these will continue if MJ isn't legalized and go away if it is...

It is easy to say that smoking a joint is a choice....like it, use it...don't like it, do not use it. What about the stoner that runs into my car or kills some innocent on the highway? And if legalized, it will happen because us humans cant be trusted to always use alcohol correctly. No shortage of proof of that statement.

I assume you advocate making Alcohol illegal then?

 

[tommy_ed]

you're mixing and matching.... the problem I have with cigerrettes isn't the "privacy of their own home' it's the second hand smoke, the cig buts thrown out car windows... the overall inconsiderate nature and if you don't think pot smokers wouldn't do the same thing, you're just being naive.

And don't distort the truth... noone gets thrown in PRISON for recreational amounts of marijuana. Don't make it seem that you know people in prison for 20 years because they had a joint in their vehicle when they got pulled over for speeding.

FWIW - I could lose my job for just that, 1 joint in the vehicle during a routine traffic stop. I've seen it happen. But I know that going into the game. So anyone in prison for drugs now, went into the game knowing what the rules were. No sympathy....

but it doesn't surprise me, your stance.... you continue to show the correlation between work ethic and smoking pot.... you pretty much make my point for me just in how you live your life. Thanks.

I'll partially agree with you on the cigarette thing, although it's illegal to smoke in most places now so it doesn't really make much sense. And it's already illegal for people throw their butts out the window.

No, they go to prison for selling or growing it. And by keeping it illegal we are providing REAL criminals with a 10.5 billion dollar industry. You may not go to prison for having a joint in your car, but you will be fined and could definitely serve jail time. Not to mention it could keep you from getting a good job. It would be like a company not hiring you because you enjoy a beer after work occasionally.

What does my work ethic have to do with smoking pot? How is occasionally smoking pot different from social drinking? Drinking is actually much worse for your health and for society. So does that mean you think alcohol should be illegal? And how in the hell would you know how I live my life? I see a pattern here... every time you run out of semantics, you resort to insulting me. You still have not answered my question... how does someone smoking pot in the privacy of their own home hurt you? I wasnt talking about cigarettes. And we've already established that it's already against the law to smoke in public places and to throw cigarette butts out the window anyway. That would be like making fast food illegal because people throw the bag out the window after eating.

Please try to keep this a civil discussion and refrain from personal insults

 

[Bob Maxey]

I don't know about where you live, but where I live I never hear about someone causing a ten car pile up or any kind of car crash because they were driving high. Yet it is almost a weekly occurrence that someone crashes while driving drunk. Marijuana is much safer than alcohol yet it is illegal whereas alcohol is legal. Also doesn't the proposition say that you have to be 21 to buy it? So you have somewhat of a mature person smoking it. Meaning they won't go driving around while they are high, unless they are ******ed. Marijuana poses not real threat to society. I mean, everyone in California smokes it anyway, might as well tax it to make some money off of it.

Actually, not everyone in CA smokes MJ. And . . . age is by no means a judge of maturity; the list of drunks killing people is too long to post here. You must be 21, but, now that it is legal (if this screwball law passes) it will be readily available to kids.

the law, or so it seems to me, will promote importation. Or does the law require that all MH smoked in CA must be grown in CA? Perhaps there might be a problem getting it into CA because it might come through other states.

Again, I have not read the law. Can someone post a link or send me a message?

For every reference you post that says MJ is not harmful, I can post several that disagree. So I'll refrain from citing statistics that bore the list if you will.

Odd that CA seems to be the anti-smoking capital of the planet, but they want to pass a law that makes it legal to smoke. Smoking is harmful, but not MJ?

Bob Maxey

 

[Bob Maxey]

Are you arguing for legalization or against it? All of these will continue if MJ isn't legalized and go away if it is...

I assume you advocate making Alcohol illegal then?

I am arguing against this notion that MJ does not hurt people. Lots of evil things happen between importation and buying your dope from some other criminal who needs to rot in jail.

I do NOT advocate making alcohol illegal. We tried that once and it failed. I love my alcohol. Give me a truly fine Irish Whiskey or single malt and I am happy.

I also smoke.

Bob Maxey

 

[Isthmus]

California can vote as it wishes, but so long as the federal government disagrees, federal law backs them, and they are wiling to enforce it, there isn't a whole heck of a lot california can do about it other than look the other way.

 

[byteware]

I am arguing against this notion that MJ does not hurt people. Lots of evil things happen between importation and buying your dope from some other criminal who needs to rot in jail.

Making it legal to grow in California and sell in California takes away those bads you listed.

Those "hurts" come from it being illegal and the black market used to provide it. They are not from marijuana itself.

 

[byteware]

California can vote as it wishes, but so long as the federal government disagrees, federal law backs them, and they are wiling to enforce it, there isn't a whole heck of a lot california can do about it other than look the other way.

That's not exactly true.

The Federal government only has power over certain things. I.E. Interstate Commerce.

If they can keep the commerce inside the state of California, then the Federal Government (theoretically) doesn't have jurisdiction.

 

[tommy_ed]

I am arguing against this notion that MJ does not hurt people. Lots of evil things happen between importation and buying your dope from some other criminal who needs to rot in jail.

I do NOT advocate making alcohol illegal. We tried that once and it failed. I love my alcohol. Give me a truly fine Irish Whiskey or single malt and I am happy.

The only reason it hurts people is because it is illegal. Importation and buying your dope from some criminal happens because it is not available by legal or practical means. By making it easily accessible to responsible adults we are putting these people out of a job, thus making it harder to get for underage smokers.

As for the alcohol, i have some interesting statistics to share with you:

in the year 2000:
85,000 alcohol related deaths
365,000 deaths contributed to poor diet or physical inactivity
32,000 deaths due to adverse reactions to prescription drugs

how many for marijuana?
0 (zero) - and not just for that year. For all of recorded history.

So what other reason would you have for wanting it to be illegal. Acohol is much much worse than marijuana. It seems like your only justification is that you like alcohol. Well, some people prefer a healthier way to relax. Why shouldn't they be able to do it? It's not hurting anyone, and if it does it's SIGNIFICANTLY less than alcohol or prescription drug abuse

 

[byteware]

how many for marijuana?
0 (zero) - and not just for that year. For all of recorded history.

the lack of a breathalyzer type device for marijuana doesn't equate to zero marijuana related deaths.

Babysitter charged in toddler's death | charged, babysitter, toddler - Break - Jacksonville Daily News

That literally took less than a second to find. There are plenty of marijuana related deaths. However, without a portable detection device, like a breathalyzer, it's hard to determine which deaths are marijuana related, and which are not.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Making it legal to grow in California and sell in California takes away those bads you listed.

Those "hurts" come from it being illegal and the black market used to provide it. They are not from marijuana itself.

Can you or anyone else provide a link to the proposed law? I guess I should read the actual law rather than go by the opinions expressed by others that have not read the actual law.

Or are high right now.

I am not sure the black market would disappear. We bought plenty of booze from Canada during prohibition, so who knows just how many people would travel to sunny California to buy the stuff.

I recall one proposal to create a low potency version of MJ for smokers. What happens if people want stronger stuff that is made illegal? Do they buy it from dealers on the street?

But that might be addressed in the proposed law.

Bob Maxey

 

[mcatdtDROID]

I'll partially agree with you on the cigarette thing, although it's illegal to smoke in most places now so it doesn't really make much sense. And it's already illegal for people throw their butts out the window.

No, they go to prison for selling or growing it. And by keeping it illegal we are providing REAL criminals with a 10.5 billion dollar industry. You may not go to prison for having a joint in your car, but you will be fined and could definitely serve jail time. Not to mention it could keep you from getting a good job. It would be like a company not hiring you because you enjoy a beer after work occasionally.

What does my work ethic have to do with smoking pot? How is occasionally smoking pot different from social drinking? Drinking is actually much worse for your health and for society. So does that mean you think alcohol should be illegal? And how in the hell would you know how I live my life? I see a pattern here... every time you run out of semantics, you resort to insulting me. You still have not answered my question... how does someone smoking pot in the privacy of their own home hurt you? I wasnt talking about cigarettes. And we've already established that it's already against the law to smoke in public places and to throw cigarette butts out the window anyway. That would be like making fast food illegal because people throw the bag out the window after eating.

Please try to keep this a civil discussion and refrain from personal insults

I will answer it....

You smoking pot in the privacy of your own home does not hurt me. Neither does you smoking crack, or meth, in the privacy of your own home. Neither does you smoking cigs in your home affect me. It still doesn't mean it should be legal. Just like cigs though, they don't stay in the privacy of your own home. People still smoke cigs in public, throw their buts out the window, in public, and while I applaud the anti-smoking laws in resturants, it still doesn't stop people from smoking in parks where I take my kids to play.

So please don't pretend you can somehow ISOLATE it, you can't.

And FWIW - you came on here with

surprising, you don't care about someone else's feelings and get your rocks off by opposing an issue that could help some people.

so go smoke a bowl, install an advanced task killer and just remember, I have the law on my side, you don't.

 

[byteware]

Can you or anyone else provide a link to the proposed law? I guess I should read the actual law rather than go by the opinions expressed by others that have not read the actual law.

Or are high right now.

I am not sure the black market would disappear. We bought plenty of booze from Canada during prohibition, so who knows just how many people would travel to sunny California to buy the stuff.

I recall one proposal to create a low potency version of MJ for smokers. What happens if people want stronger stuff that is made illegal? Do they buy it from dealers on the street?

But that might be addressed in the proposed law.

Bob Maxey

This should do.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.p...ol_and_Tax_Cannabis_Act_of_2010"_(California)