California Prop 19, Legalize Marijuana? Vote Yes, or Vote No?

[byteware]

no, but if they pass a field sobriety test they should be okay to drive. if they fail it, it would be handled the same way it is if you're caught driving impaired now. With an OVI charge

You cannot charge someone with OVI, unless you can prove that they are under the influence of something.

Many things can cause you to fail a field sobriety test, including exhaustion. Failing a field sobriety test isn't enough to charge you, otherwise there would never have been a need for a breathalyzer.

 

[tommy_ed]

You cannot charge someone with OVI, unless you can prove that they are under the influence of something.

Many things can cause you to fail a field sobriety test, including exhaustion. Failing a field sobriety test isn't enough to charge you, otherwise there would never have been a need for a breathalyzer.

False. I know a couple people who have been charged with an OVI while under the influence of prescription pills. You're basically saying if I get pulled over tomorrow so stoned and f***ed up on percocet i can't even walk, they can't do anything because there's no way to test what I'm under the influence of.

 

[copestag]

well if they were so messed up they couldnt walk I would bet further evidence was collected..... since the officers obviously had reason so suspect they were under the influence........ also charged and convicted are 2 different things all together...... there are a great number of cases that are not prosecuted for lack of evidence... even though the person still loses their license for a period..... this is because you dont have to be proven guilty to have your license suspended...... reasonable suspicion is enough

also bare in mind....... under the influence means just that.... it doesnt mean Im so drunk I cant even stand up....... it means Ive had 2 beers in the last hour or so....... or 1 pill..... and it doesnt mean youre so stoned you think the moon is the back of pacmans head.........it means just a couple of hits off a joint

of course none of this is a legitimate argument in any fashion for legalizing marijuana..... comparing marijuana to any other substance is just a matter of grasping at straws for lack of a better argument........ if you want to start a campaign to make alchohol illegal again..... or to make prescription drugs illegal... then these are valid arguments..... but none of them justify marijuana by any means

 

[tommy_ed]

of course none of this is a legitimate argument in any fashion for legalizing marijuana..... comparing marijuana to any other substance is just a matter of grasping at straws for lack of a better argument........ if you want to start a campaign to make alchohol illegal again..... or to make prescription drugs illegal... then these are valid arguments..... but none of them justify marijuana by any means

no one was using it as an argument to legalize it. Someone stated that this was a reason it should remain illegal. I'm simply stating this isn't a good enough reason for something to be illegal. I have plenty of legitimate reasons why it should be legal.

 

[Bob Maxey]

False. I know a couple people who have been charged with an OVI while under the influence of prescription pills. You're basically saying if I get pulled over tomorrow so stoned and f***ed up on percocet i can't even walk, they can't do anything because there's no way to test what I'm under the influence of.

I agree with you.

We need a little perspective and a little common sence. If the police think there is something wrong with you, I am betting they can take you off the road. For your safety, my safety, and cop's protection. All they likely need is to smell pot and off you go.

So there is no field sobriety test. So what? There are other tests to see if you are stoned on pot. Blood tests, for example. I'll bet there will be a quick test eventually.

Bob Maxey

 

[byteware]

no one was using it as an argument to legalize it. Someone stated that this was a reason it should remain illegal. I'm simply stating this isn't a good enough reason for something to be illegal. I have plenty of legitimate reasons why it should be legal.

It isn't an argument to keep something illegal? Because other things will kill just as many people?

Really?

That's your best defense?

 

[tommy_ed]

It isn't an argument to keep something illegal? Because other things will kill just as many people?

Really?

That's your best defense?

No, as I stated above it's one of many different things. And no I don't think a smaller portion of irresponsible users should make it illegal. Just like everyone who drinks alcohol doesn't drink and drive, neither do people who smoke.

1.) We are spending BILLIONS of dollars every year trying to control something that doesn't hurt anyone.
2.) We could be making billions if it was made legal and taxed.
3.) Upstanding citizens who would otherwise have no criminal record are charged with a crime.Imagine if you lost a job because your boss found out you had a beer after work?
4.) Marijuana is very effective at treating anxiety, nausea, depression, headaches, arthritis, etc. It should be available to anyone.
5.) It's impossible to overdose on marijuana, which can't be said for alcohol or ANY prescription drug.
6.) Marijuana induces peaceful, caring behavior. (And don't try to throw in the classic "it makes you lazy" argument, because it's a stereotype. I know many every day smokers who have done very well for themselves. One started a very successful grocery store business. Another is a chemist who experiments with flu viruses)
7.) By not providing consumers with a legal source to buy marijuana, we are setting up jobs for criminals. We are worsening the situation with young people as well. You don't see too many "beer dealers" on the streets. Not to mention how many harder drugs people (kids) are introduced to because of this problem. A kid goes to buy a bag of pot from someone and he says "hey man, you should try some of this"


those are a few reasons I don't think it should be legal. I would also like to add that the reasons for making it illegalin the first place are BULLSHIT.

I can see this thread is going in loops now. I still have yet to see a legitimate reason why it should be illegal. A minority of people using it irresponsibly isn't a reason to make something illegal. Otherwise guns, alcohol, pills, cars, and "the works"/aluminum foil would be illegal. It is simply a case of "I don't do it, and have no desire to. Which means I don't understand it. Which means it is bad. It should be illegal."

 

[Bob Maxey]

No, as I stated above it's one of many different things. And no I don't think a smaller portion of irresponsible users should make it illegal. Just like everyone who drinks alcohol doesn't drink and drive, neither do people who smoke.

1.) We are spending BILLIONS of dollars every year trying to control something that doesn't hurt anyone.
2.) We could be making billions if it was made legal and taxed.
3.) Upstanding citizens who would otherwise have no criminal record are charged with a crime.Imagine if you lost a job because your boss found out you had a beer after work?
4.) Marijuana is very effective at treating anxiety, nausea, depression, headaches, arthritis, etc. It should be available to anyone.
5.) It's impossible to overdose on marijuana, which can't be said for alcohol or ANY prescription drug.
6.) Marijuana induces peaceful, caring behavior. (And don't try to throw in the classic "it makes you lazy" argument, because it's a stereotype. I know many every day smokers who have done very well for themselves. One started a very successful grocery store business. Another is a chemist who experiments with flu viruses)
7.) By not providing consumers with a legal source to buy marijuana, we are setting up jobs for criminals. We are worsening the situation with young people as well. You don't see too many "beer dealers" on the streets. Not to mention how many harder drugs people (kids) are introduced to because of this problem. A kid goes to buy a bag of pot from someone and he says "hey man, you should try some of this"


those are a few reasons I don't think it should be legal. I would also like to add that the reasons for making it illegalin the first place are BULLSHIT.

I can see this thread is going in loops now. I still have yet to see a legitimate reason why it should be illegal. A minority of people using it irresponsibly isn't a reason to make something illegal. Otherwise guns, alcohol, pills, cars, and "the works"/aluminum foil would be illegal. It is simply a case of "I don't do it, and have no desire to. Which means I don't understand it. Which means it is bad. It should be illegal."

I do not see the loops. I do see lots of folks trying to justify why the stuff should be legal, though. They bring up lots of fluff that has little to do with the realities. For example, this idea that because alcohol is legal, MJ should be legal.

We are stuck with alcohol and that's fine, i love the stuff. Can't do anything about Ethyl, we tried that a long time ago.

Remember, it is Proposition 19 we are talking about, not an actual law. No guarantees it will pass. I recall how much celebration there was when the Gay Marrage Act (Prop 8) reared its ugly head and how so many Califirnians voted no. I thought that was a shoe-in, but Californians knew what was right and proper and voted NO!

If Prop 19 passes, it will pass in a different form. I can't imagne it passing with so many flaws. Also, the Federal Law still stands and perhaps the feds can increase their activity and start making more arrests.

So here is a thought: rather than pass a law that pertains only to California, perhaps you can change the federal law. If the feds arrest you and jail you for 10 years, I am fine with that.

Bob Maxey

 

[Isthmus]

Alright, here is a question for those who support legalization. is your support for legalization, so that the herb can be used for research and medicinal application, and it's distribution restricted by the FDA so that it can be prescribed to those who use it? Or are you proposing making it available to any who want it for use medicinally or recreationally?

 

[Bob Maxey]

Alright, here is a question for those who support legalization. is your support for legalization, so that the herb can be used for research and medicinal application, and it's distribution restricted by the FDA so that it can be prescribed to those who use it? Or are you proposing making it available to any who want it for use medicinally or recreationally?

I dont think they can answer you, man... that is a rather long question and lots of syllables. I think when you are high, the world of multi-syllabic conversation is too hard.

And we know they only want to get high, legitimate medical research is not an issue.

Bob Maxey

 

[byteware]

No, as I stated above it's one of many different things. And no I don't think a smaller portion of irresponsible users should make it illegal. Just like everyone who drinks alcohol doesn't drink and drive, neither do people who smoke.

1.) We are spending BILLIONS of dollars every year trying to control something that doesn't hurt anyone.

as we've been discussing, it DOES hurt people.

2.) We could be making billions if it was made legal and taxed.

You could say the same for Nerve Agents. If we just sold them and taxes them we could make billions.

3.) Upstanding citizens who would otherwise have no criminal record are charged with a crime.Imagine if you lost a job because your boss found out you had a beer after work?

Yes, to keep people from having just one crime on their otherwise upstanding record, let's legalize that one crime.

Whether it be murder, or smoking pot.

I'm sorry that it's illegal. I'm sorry they broke the law. I'm sorry that breaking the law is now recorded on their record. But that's what happens when you break the law.

4.) Marijuana is very effective at treating anxiety, nausea, depression, headaches, arthritis, etc. It should be available to anyone.

California already has medical marijuana avilable.

5.) It's impossible to overdose on marijuana, which can't be said for alcohol or ANY prescription drug.

Virtually impossible, but not impossible.

6.) Marijuana induces peaceful, caring behavior. (And don't try to throw in the classic "it makes you lazy" argument, because it's a stereotype. I know many every day smokers who have done very well for themselves. One started a very successful grocery store business. Another is a chemist who experiments with flu viruses)

Cause that's what we need. Experiments on viruses while high on marijuana.

7.) By not providing consumers with a legal source to buy marijuana, we are setting up jobs for criminals. We are worsening the situation with young people as well. You don't see too many "beer dealers" on the streets. Not to mention how many harder drugs people (kids) are introduced to because of this problem. A kid goes to buy a bag of pot from someone and he says "hey man, you should try some of this"

You mean, people who buy illegal drugs are exposed to drug dealers? Really? I have no pity for people who break the law.

those are a few reasons I don't think it should be legal. I would also like to add that the reasons for making it illegalin the first place are BULLSHIT.

Your reasons aren't really sound, now are they?

I can see this thread is going in loops now. I still have yet to see a legitimate reason why it should be illegal. A minority of people using it irresponsibly isn't a reason to make something illegal. Otherwise guns, alcohol, pills, cars, and "the works"/aluminum foil would be illegal. It is simply a case of "I don't do it, and have no desire to. Which means I don't understand it. Which means it is bad. It should be illegal."

And I have yet to see a legitimate reason why it should be legal.

Personally, until a "your currently high" test can be performed accurately, you don't really have an argument for legalizing it.

 

[Bob Maxey]

If you can't be fired for using MJ on the job, how will this affect Califormia business? There are perhaps liability issues to deal with. I would not want people who are high, moving expensive bikes in and out of my shop. If I cannot fire a high welder, how does my insurance company deal with payinhg me if a fire is started and I knew the welder was high?

Then again, that might be addressed in Proposition 20, proposed by Bob Maxey. It states that any high loser that damages your personal property can be beaten untill blind and comotose.

How does passing a law to make legal a product that must be smoked coexist with Californias assinine prohibition on smokong in public? It's like they will pass a law banning beer because alcohol is dangerous and then passing a law that makes gin legal because research shows it is perfectly safe.

Bob Maxey

 

[tommy_ed]

Alright, here is a question for those who support legalization. is your support for legalization, so that the herb can be used for research and medicinal application, and it's distribution restricted by the FDA so that it can be prescribed to those who use it? Or are you proposing making it available to any who want it for use medicinally or recreationally?

personally, I would prefer it be de-criminalized. (not taxed or government controlled) but it isn't practical, and wouldn't be good for society overall. But yes, I think I should be allowed to sit on my couch and smoke a joint after work.

I dont think they can answer you, man... that is a rather long question and lots of syllables. I think when you are high, the world of multi-syllabic conversation is too hard.

And we know they only want to get high, legitimate medical research is not an issue.

Bob Maxey

Yea, and sheriffs are the smartest people I know LOL how many years did you go to college to drive around bullying people?

Why would we NOT want medical studies to be conducted? Most of the studies thus far have supported our cause.

as we've been discussing, it DOES hurt people.

Because of a couple of irresponsible people driving while high? That's it. And it's not a good enough reason.

You could say the same for Nerve Agents. If we just sold them and taxes them we could make billions.

Completely off-topic. Marijuana is nowhere NEAR as harmful. Not by a long shot.

Yes, to keep people from having just one crime on their otherwise upstanding record, let's legalize that one crime.

Whether it be murder, or smoking pot.

comparing murder to smoking pot? if you didn't have anything to say to that point you should have just skipped over it. that doesnt even make sense.

California already has medical marijuana avilable.

These are points as to why it should be legal on a federal level

Virtually impossible, but not impossible.

False again. Show me ONE instance of someone overdosing on marijuana in the history of mankind. It's never happened. I'd say those are pretty good odds

Cause that's what we need. Experiments on viruses while high on marijuana.

he doesn't smoke before or during work. See? People CAN be responsible! Holy Shit!

You mean, people who buy illegal drugs are exposed to drug dealers? Really? I have no pity for people who break the law.

This doesn't justify it. So you're saying if your kid decides he/she wants to smoke pot someday, you would rather he/she gets it from someone who is also offering them meth and acid than from a store? If not for these situations, I bet a lot of people wouldn't even know where to get those things.

And I have yet to see a legitimate reason why it should be legal.

I've given you plenty, however you choose to try and talk your way around them because you don't smoke. You drink right? What if drinking was illegal? Would you be on the same page you are now? You can easily type that you are, but I doubt it.

Personally, until a "your currently high" test can be performed accurately, you don't really have an argument for legalizing it.

While I agree that this should definitely be a necessity before legalizing it, I would HARDLY say I have no argument without it being available.

http://www.mpp.org/assets/pdfs/download-materials/MJ_ProhibFacts092008.pdf

sources are listed at the bottom of the page

 

[byteware]

Because of a couple of irresponsible people driving while high? That's it. And it's not a good enough reason.

I'm sorry that more people dying isn't a good enough reason for you. That doesn't change the fact that if you can't detect it, you can't prosecute it, and if you can't prosecute it, then there is nothing to prevent people from driving high.

Completely off-topic. Marijuana is nowhere NEAR as harmful. Not by a long shot.

Off topic? Hardly. It just shows that your reasoning is flawed.

comparing murder to smoking pot? if you didn't have anything to say to that point you should have just skipped over it. that doesnt even make sense.

I'm not comparing anything. People committed a crime, willingly. They were caught, charged and arrested. It really doesn't matter if it SHOULD be illegal or not. They willingly and knowingly committed a crime.

And you want us all to feel bad for them?

These are points as to why it should be legal on a federal level

I'll support medical marijuana on a federal level. Not a problem.

False again. Show me ONE instance of someone overdosing on marijuana in the history of mankind. It's never happened. I'd say those are pretty good odds

I never said it had happened, or that it was easy. I simply stated that claiming it was impossible was false. Virtually, yes, but not actually impossible.
THC is large enough doses is lethal... it's just that the dose is so large it doesn't really matter.

he doesn't smoke before or during work. See? People CAN be responsible! Holy Shit!

Yeah... we'll just have to take his word for that... won't we, since we can't test for it.

This doesn't justify it. So you're saying if your kid decides he/she wants to smoke pot someday, you would rather he/she gets it from someone who is also offering them meth and acid than from a store? If not for these situations, I bet a lot of people wouldn't even know where to get those things.

Your issue is that people who are committing a crime are exposed to experienced criminals?

That's really your A game argument?

I've given you plenty, however you choose to try and talk your way around them because you don't smoke. You drink right? What if drinking was illegal? Would you be on the same page you are now? You can easily type that you are, but I doubt it.

Your right... "people committed a crime, we have to save them." is a lot of argument... it's just not convincing.

While I agree that this should definitely be a necessity before legalizing it, I would HARDLY say I have no argument without it being available.

The bulk of your argument is that people smoke marijuana illegally and are convicted for committing a crime, which isn't really persuasive.

http://www.mpp.org/assets/pdfs/download-materials/MJ_ProhibFacts092008.pdf

sources are listed at the bottom of the page[/QUOTE]

Seriously, I stopped reading when it seemed to be all about complaining that marijuana is illegal and people get punished for it.

 

[Isthmus]

And we know they only want to get high, legitimate medical research is not an issue.

And there, my good friends is the answer I think underpins this whole debate. For all the talk of medical benefits, at the end of the day, the biggest push for the legalization of marijuana, if recreational in nature. That I have a real issue with.

 

[tommy_ed]

I'm sorry that more people dying isn't a good enough reason for you. That doesn't change the fact that if you can't detect it, you can't prosecute it, and if you can't prosecute it, then there is nothing to prevent people from driving high.

how many people die because of pot? not something you ever hear about. If you have to over-exaggerate something to prove your point, then your point isnt worth proving

I'm not comparing anything. People committed a crime, willingly. They were caught, charged and arrested. It really doesn't matter if it SHOULD be illegal or not. They willingly and knowingly committed a crime.

And you want us all to feel bad for them?

just like if someone had a beer during prohibition. It's illegal, but it's kind of a ridiculous "crime"

I'll support medical marijuana on a federal level. Not a problem.

so you're okay with people driving high as long as they have a prescription? You can't be on two different sides

Your issue is that people who are committing a crime are exposed to experienced criminals?

no my issue is that people who would only be smoking some pot are introduced to and pressured into trying hard drugs. I don't understand why you are okay with this? You are starting to sound like Mcatdtdroid

That's really your A game argument?

and your A game argument is that there is no "marijuana breathalyzer?" I suppose you are against pain medication as well, since there is no way to test for that while driving either

Your right... "people committed a crime, we have to save them." is a lot of argument... it's just not convincing.

that isn't my argument. The point you keep repeating is only one of many that I have made. And it's not even one of the bigger points I've been going after, such as money lost vs. money to be made.

The bulk of your argument is that people smoke marijuana illegally and are convicted for committing a crime, which isn't really persuasive.

Maybe you should re-read this thread. As I mentioned above, this is not even a major point I have made. It's mentioned as a reason, but not even close to being the bulk of my argument.


And isthmus, I don't see why it would matter if it was to be used recreationally. Yes, that's the main reason we want it to be legal. So someone can smoke a bowl in their living room if they want to. So if you are driving with home with a joint in your car, you don't have to have a panic attack every time you pass a cop, directing your attention away from the road. The same reason people wanted alcohol prohibition to be lifted. The only difference is there are NO health advantages of alcohol, whereas with marijuana, there are many.

 

[byteware]

how many people die because of pot? not something you ever hear about. If you have to over-exaggerate something to prove your point, then your point isnt worth proving

Exaggerate? It has the same effects on your driving ability that Alcohol has.

That's not exaggerating. The fact that we can't test if someone was high at any particular time, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, or hasn't happened.

just like if someone had a beer during prohibition. It's illegal, but it's kind of a ridiculous "crime"

And? Your point is what? You don't agree with it, so it shouldn't be a crime? Does everyone get that same treatment when they don't think something should be a crime?

so you're okay with people driving high as long as they have a prescription? You can't be on two different sides

Nope. I'm squarely on one side. I'm not ok with people driving high with or without a prescription. But we aren't talking about medicine here. You are talking about recreational use. Which will make it legal to smoke it at any time and undetectable when pulled over.

no my issue is that people who would only be smoking some pot are introduced to and pressured into trying hard drugs. I don't understand why you are okay with this? You are starting to sound like Mcatdtdroid

Do you also take issue that people who would only break into houses is pressured to rob people at gun point?

People who commit a crime are exposed to other crimes. Sorry... no big sympathy here.

and your A game argument is that there is no "marijuana breathalyzer?" I suppose you are against pain medication as well, since there is no way to test for that while driving either

My A game argument? I don't have to argue for marijuana to be illegal, it already is. You have to present a convincing argument to change the situation. You haven't.

The sad thing is... I already think it should be legal... and you still can't convince me your arguments are sound.

that isn't my argument. The point you keep repeating is only one of many that I have made. And it's not even one of the bigger points I've been going after, such as money lost vs. money to be made.

Really... read further up in your post... even in this thread you mention how committing this crime exposes people to worse crimes...

It's a crime to begin with. What happens to them after they commit a crime is not something I'm going to get all teary eyed about.

Maybe you should re-read this thread. As I mentioned above, this is not even a major point I have made. It's mentioned as a reason, but not even close to being the bulk of my argument.

It is one you keep coming back to.

And isthmus, I don't see why it would matter if it was to be used recreationally. Yes, that's the main reason we want it to be legal. So someone can smoke a bowl in their living room if they want to. So if you are driving with home with a joint in your car, you don't have to have a panic attack every time you pass a cop, directing your attention away from the road. The same reason people wanted alcohol prohibition to be lifted. The only difference is there are NO health advantages of alcohol, whereas with marijuana, there are many.

well now... really? NO advantages to alcohol? Someone doesn't read the papers much. Alcohol, in moderation, has a myriad of health benefits. I don't drink and even I know that.

In fact, moderate drinkers outlive heavy drinkers, who outlive non-drinkers

Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers, Study Finds - TIME



Seriously though, marijuana isn't without it's drawbacks which include compromising the immune system in your lungs, and overuse leading to permanent memory impairment.

http://www.askmen.com/sports/health/20_mens_health.html


In order for your argument to be successfuly, you have to successfully argue why it should be legal.. you haven't done that.

If you want to make an argument... I would avoid anything that deals with the negative effects committing a crime has on someone.

 

[tommy_ed]

Exaggerate? It has the same effects on your driving ability that Alcohol has.

I disagree. I've smoked a good deal of pot in my time, and drank a lot of alcohol. Alcohol will impair you MUCH more than pot.

Nope. I'm squarely on one side. I'm not ok with people driving high with or without a prescription. But we aren't talking about medicine here. You are talking about recreational use. Which will make it legal to smoke it at any time and undetectable when pulled over.

I seriously doubt it will EVER be legal to smoke while driving? but okay..
And as bob maxey and I established earlier, it IS detectable when you are impaired. It doesn't matter what it's on, if you fail a field sobriety test, you are unfit to drive. So I think that argument is dead.

Do you also take issue that people who would only break into houses is pressured to rob people at gun point?

no. that is a violent crime which directly affects an innocent victim. Smoking pot (while not driving) is a victimless crime.

My A game argument? I don't have to argue for marijuana to be illegal, it already is. You have to present a convincing argument to change the situation. You haven't.

The sad thing is... I already think it should be legal... and you still can't convince me your arguments are sound.

No, but you are obviously defending it? And if you think it should be legal, what are your reasonings?

Really... read further up in your post... even in this thread you mention how committing this crime exposes people to worse crimes...
It's a crime to begin with. What happens to them after they commit a crime is not something I'm going to get all teary eyed about.

It is one you keep coming back to.

I keep coming back to it because i'm responding to your arguments against my point. Just forget this point, you OBVISOULY can't grasp what I'm saying since you keep dancing around it with "ohhh but it IS a crime, so I don't give a shit about that person!"

 

[byteware]

I disagree. I've smoked a good deal of pot in my time, and drank a lot of alcohol. Alcohol will impair you MUCH more than pot.

This reminds me of those don't drink and drive videos, where the cops get someone drunk. That person is certain that they can drive fine... they let his friends watch him drive, and record it to show it to him later...

Drugged Driving - InfoFacts - NIDA

What's more, THC makes you act like a new driver. It prevents you from drawing on past driving experiences.

I seriously doubt it will EVER be legal to smoke while driving? but okay..
And as bob maxey and I established earlier, it IS detectable when you are impaired. It doesn't matter what it's on, if you fail a field sobriety test, you are unfit to drive. So I think that argument is dead.

You honestly don't understand why this argument ISN'T dead?

Being unfit to drive and driving is not illegal. You cannot prove when someone is high on marijuana. You cannot react to drugged driving in the same manner you can drunk driving.

no. that is a violent crime which directly affects an innocent victim. Smoking pot (while not driving) is a victimless crime.

So, as long as it is a victimless crime, we should prevent the crime from hurtin the criminals?

No, but you are obviously defending it? And if you think it should be legal, what are your reasonings?

I'm semi-libertarian. I believe that people should be allowed to do pretty much whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others.

I think the law for driving will have to work like this... if you have an accident where you are determined to be at fault, you must take a urinalysis. If it is determined that you have any medicine that could have impaired you in your system, you are guilty of DUI.

I keep coming back to it because i'm responding to your arguments against my point. Just forget this point, you OBVISOULY can't grasp what I'm saying since you keep dancing around it with "ohhh but it IS a crime, so I don't give a shit about that person!"

I grasp what you are saying.

Just don't expect law abiding citizens to feel pity for how committing a crime affects criminals...

 

[tommy_ed]

What's more, THC makes you act like a new driver. It prevents you from drawing on past driving experiences.

elaborate, please?

Being unfit to drive and driving is not illegal. You cannot prove when someone is high on marijuana.

sheriff maxey disagrees with you. as do I. People are arrested for driving impaired every day. It's called an OVI (Operating a Vehicle Impaired)

You cannot react to drugged driving in the same manner you can drunk driving.

i agree, but according to your earlier post, you don't. you claim driving high and driving drunks are the SAME level of impairment

So, as long as it is a victimless crime, we should prevent the crime from hurtin the criminals?

if this law wasn't made (under racist and absolutely FALSE information might I add), the people in question wouldn't be criminals at all. If someone is murdering, stealing, etc., something tells me they would be committing other crimes as well

I'm semi-libertarian. I believe that people should be allowed to do pretty much whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others.

this kind of contradicts your argument thus far. You don't support someone being able to smoke pot in their living room, how does that affect the rights of others?

I think the law for driving will have to work like this... if you have an accident where you are determined to be at fault, you must take a urinalysis. If it is determined that you have any medicine that could have impaired you in your system, you are guilty of DUI.

Contradiction again. That wouldn't work according to you. Because the accident will have already happened. And how is this any different than the current system of a field sobriety test - if someone fails they could have a hair test done and be able to tell the last time someone smoked marijuana

 

[byteware]

elaborate, please?

Read the link please.

sheriff maxey disagrees with you. as do I. People are arrested for driving impaired every day. It's called an OVI (Operating a Vehicle Impaired)

Most states don't have a driving while impaired law... I could agree to that though.

i agree, but according to your earlier post, you don't. you claim driving high and driving drunks are the SAME level of impairment

ReRead my statement again.... really closely.

I didn't say you cannot react WHILE drugged driving.

I said you cannot react TO drugged driving. You obviously haven't agreed with me up until this point, so I'm assuming you didn't really read what was written.

if this law wasn't made (under racist and absolutely FALSE information might I add), the people in question wouldn't be criminals at all. If someone is murdering, stealing, etc., something tells me they would be committing other crimes as well

No one would be criminals... if the crimes they committed weren't illegal. What a ridiculous argument...

this kind of contradicts your argument thus far. You don't support someone being able to smoke pot in their living room, how does that affect the rights of others?

No. You've not been paying attention. I support legalizing marijuana.

Your arguments for it just aren't any good.

Contradiction again. That wouldn't work according to you. Because the accident will have already happened. And how is this any different than the current system of a field sobriety test - if someone fails they could have a hair test done and be able to tell the last time someone smoked marijuana

Contradiction again... If someone is caught possibly driving under the influence of marijuana (as long as it's in their system they are legally guilty), then they go to jail. They are tried and found guilty and go to jail. Same with alcohol and drugs that could impair them.

I don't care if they are at fault for an accident that killed 9 teenagers on their way to their college recruiter, or they gently backed into someone's car in a parking lot.

Every accident is the same, and if you are responsible, then you get tested, and if found under the influence, are guilty.

Refusing the test is an admission of guilt.

 

[tommy_ed]

Read the link please.

i did. I don't see where it says marijuana makes you "act like a new driver"

Most states don't have a driving while impaired law... I could agree to that though.

i would hope this would be a stipulation of a federal law being passed

No one would be criminals... if the crimes they committed weren't illegal. What a ridiculous argument...

ugghh... nevermind. this subject is obviously going nowhere, we're just not understanding each other evidently.

No. You've not been paying attention. I support legalizing marijuana.

Your arguments for it just aren't any good.

billions of money lost every year isn't a good reason?
how about all of the jobs we are providing to criminals?

your argument for legalization was:

I believe that people should be allowed to do pretty much whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others.

really? wow.

Contradiction again... If someone is caught possibly driving under the influence of marijuana (as long as it's in their system they are legally guilty), then they go to jail. They are tried and found guilty and go to jail. Same with alcohol and drugs that could impair them.

I don't care if they are at fault for an accident that killed 9 teenagers on their way to their college recruiter, or they gently backed into someone's car in a parking lot.

Every accident is the same, and if you are responsible, then you get tested, and if found under the influence, are guilty.

Refusing the test is an admission of guilt.

I don't understand this one. You DO realize, this is exactly what I have been saying the whole time? Why have you been disagreeing the whole time if you feel this way?:

The field sobriety test, absolutely. Are you criminally putting people's lives at risk?

Are you a habitually driving while high? Field sobriety test won't stop you before you kill someone.

Because there is no test to determine if someone is currently under the influence of marijuana.

You cannot charge someone with OVI, unless you can prove that they are under the influence of something.

Many things can cause you to fail a field sobriety test, including exhaustion. Failing a field sobriety test isn't enough to charge you, otherwise there would never have been a need for a breathalyzer.

That doesn't change the fact that if you can't detect it, you can't prosecute it, and if you can't prosecute it, then there is nothing to prevent people from driving high.

 

[riffdex]

I don't buy the argument that because marijuana is illegal now, people must go to extraordinary lengths to prove why it should be legal. It's quite simple, this is a free country, and it is my opinion that things ought to be legal first and foremost. If they prove detrimental enough to society then perhaps they should be made illegal then. Unfortunately, lobbyists have a lot of control over our laws. Fattening foods and alcohol endanger health, no doubt, but the freedom of the citizens is more important than protecting the people succumbing to health issues by their own choice. As for the driving under the influence point, it is true that many states don't have OVI laws. But I don't think anyone in this thread is arguing that marijuana should be unconditionally legal. At least that's not something I agree with, but maybe others do and I just missed those posts. But anyways, what I'm trying to say is, any legislation for the legalization of marijuana would have to provide for very strict OVI enforcement policies before I would vote for it.

 

[byteware]

i did. I don't see where it says marijuana makes you "act like a new driver"

Really? You read it, and you can't see that? It prevents you from drawing on past driving experiences?...

You read it and you CAN'T make that connection on your own?

i would hope this would be a stipulation of a federal law being passed

Federal government cannot force state laws.

ugghh... nevermind. this subject is obviously going nowhere, we're just not understanding each other evidently.

I understand you perfectly. If it wasn't a crime, then these criminals wouldn't have their lives affected badly by the crime that they committed.

You really can't expect law abiding citizens to feel bad that criminals who commit crimes have negative consequences... really? That's your argument?

billions of money lost every year isn't a good reason?
how about all of the jobs we are providing to criminals?

Not really... no.

your argument for legalization was:

Yep.

I don't understand this one. You DO realize, this is exactly what I have been saying the whole time? Why have you been disagreeing the whole time if you feel this way?:

You have tried to make the point that it's not as bad as other things, and that marking people are criminals for committing crimes has a negative effect on them.

Those arguments just don't hold water. In fact, you haven't presented a compelling argument to back up your position.

That's why we are at odds. It's not simply enough to believe you are right. To convince someone, you have to present an argument that is convincing.

 

[byteware]

But anyways, what I'm trying to say is, any legislation for the legalization of marijuana would have to provide for very strict OVI enforcement policies before I would vote for it.

I would say that if you are at fault in ANY kind of accident (I don't care if you bumped your neighbors mailbox) you must be tested via urinalysis.

If you pop positive for any substance that might impair you (THC, prescription drugs, etc...) then your car is confiscated and now property of the police department, and you spend 6 months in jail.

Do that, and I think we'll all be happier.