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California Prop 19, Legalize Marijuana? Vote Yes, or Vote No?

California Prop 19, Legalize Marijuana? Yes or No?

  • Yes

    Votes: 38 63.3%
  • No

    Votes: 16 26.7%
  • Maybe in the future, once the proposition is rewritten to close loopholes and insure safety.

    Votes: 6 10.0%

  • Total voters
    60
Really? You read it, and you can't see that? It prevents you from drawing on past driving experiences?...

You read it and you CAN'T make that connection on your own?

No. Because it's not true. When someone sparks up a joint they don't suddenly just forget everything they've learned about driving over the course of their lifetime. That's just absurd.

Federal government cannot force state laws.

good point, I'll agree that this is an issue that definitely needs work if a law is going to be passed. I would hope if a federal law was passed, the states would be doing something to comply with it, but we all know how the government works so who knows :rolleyes:


Not really... no.

Now you're just acting childish if you think "i beleive people should be able to do what they want" is a more valid argument than the billions of tax dollars we could be saving/generating. That's just ignorant, you obviously have difficulty admitting when you're wrong about something.

You have tried to make the point that it's not as bad as other things, and that marking people are criminals for committing crimes has a negative effect on them.

I like how you glaze over the other points i've made... you are picking the reasons that aren't as sound to prove your point

Those arguments just don't hold water. In fact, you haven't presented a compelling argument to back up your position.

the fact that you are saying this after claiming your "compelling argument to back up your position" was "people should be able to do what they want" makes you sound a bit foolish.

That's why we are at odds. It's not simply enough to believe you are right. To convince someone, you have to present an argument that is convincing.

Agreed. You have actually presented a less convincing argument than I have. "People should be able to do what they want" just doesnt hold water :rolleyes:
 
Wow i do not like this thread at all here...

I hate drugs...i believe they shud be banned from society as a whole! I have lost a friend due to herione addiction, i hate the horrible messed up stuff! And i am in the process of losing another friend cause i suspect he is on some really bad stuff and have not seen him for a while...he doesn't say anything rational to me at all and he is very skinny too the last time i saw him...

Yes i do agree that it is up to the individual to take whatever rubbish they want to... however sometimes people do not think rationally and they feel down or depressed because the mountain of troubles that they facing at that current moment in time and feel like they cannot overcome their problems...

I once thought taking drugs (weed, crystal meth) wud get rid of my problems too but then i thought logically about it and said i am a coward if i escape from my problems and do not face them...that is really not fair to my family and friends if i take drugs.

Only people that are not thinking rationally 9 times out of ten take drugs...

Yes this world can be a sad place for sure but taking crack or something else really bad for your health will just make it worse... there is no good from taking drugs at all.

Face your problems and do not run away from them. You can really go far in life if you really want to... it is never too late to change... i know this!

I will most probably get bombarded for this but i don't care... it is what i believe is the truth...
 
Wow i do not like this thread at all here...

I hate drugs...i believe they shud be banned from society as a whole! I have lost a friend due to herione addiction, i hate the f**ked up stuff! And i am in the process of losing another friend cause i suspect he is on some really bad stuff and have not seen him for a while...he doesn't say anything rational to me at all and he is very skinny too the last time i saw him...

Yes i do agree that it is up to the individual to take whatever rubbish they want to... however sometimes people do not think rationally and they feel down or depressed because the mountain of troubles that they facing at that current moment in time and feel like they cannot overcome their problems...

I once thought taking drugs (weed, crystal meth) wud get rid of my problems too but then i thought logically about it and said i am a coward if i escape from my problems and do not face them...that is really not fair to my family and friends if i take drugs.

Only people that are not thinking rationally 9 times out of ten take drugs...

Yes this world can be a sad place for sure but taking crack or something else really bad for your health will just make it worse... there is no good from taking drugs at all.

Face your problems and do not run away from them. You can really go far in life if you really want to... it is never too late to change... i know this!

I will most probably get bombarded for this but i don't care... it is what i believe is the truth...

Sometimes the problem is the way our brains are 'wired'. That can't be changed with wishful thinking.
 
I would say that if you are at fault in ANY kind of accident (I don't care if you bumped your neighbors mailbox) you must be tested via urinalysis.

If you pop positive for any substance that might impair you (THC, prescription drugs, etc...) then your car is confiscated and now property of the police department, and you spend 6 months in jail.

Do that, and I think we'll all be happier.

So basically, if you took a prescription drug two weeks ago, and soberly bump into a person's mailbox, you will go to jail? This can't fail!
 
Wow i do not like this thread at all here...

I hate drugs...i believe they shud be banned from society as a whole! I have lost a friend due to herione addiction, i hate the f**ked up stuff! And i am in the process of losing another friend cause i suspect he is on some really bad stuff and have not seen him for a while...he doesn't say anything rational to me at all and he is very skinny too the last time i saw him...

Yes i do agree that it is up to the individual to take whatever rubbish they want to... however sometimes people do not think rationally and they feel down or depressed because the mountain of troubles that they facing at that current moment in time and feel like they cannot overcome their problems...

I once thought taking drugs (weed, crystal meth) wud get rid of my problems too but then i thought logically about it and said i am a coward if i escape from my problems and do not face them...that is really not fair to my family and friends if i take drugs.

Only people that are not thinking rationally 9 times out of ten take drugs...

Yes this world can be a sad place for sure but taking crack or something else really bad for your health will just make it worse... there is no good from taking drugs at all.

Face your problems and do not run away from them. You can really go far in life if you really want to... it is never too late to change... i know this!

I will most probably get bombarded for this but i don't care... it is what i believe is the truth...

i don't think you should be comparing marijuana to hard drugs... there are very few health issues associated with pot, most of which are eliminated when it is eaten rather than smoked. And this thread has to do with it being legal not how it is being used to handle personal issues. So your statements don't really apply to the conversation at hand. I understand, however, what you are getting at about masking personal problems with substances and completely agree :D
 
No. Because it's not true. When someone sparks up a joint they don't suddenly just forget everything they've learned about driving over the course of their lifetime. That's just absurd.

The more THC that there is in your system, the harder it is to access previous experiences.

According to the NIH, there are enough scientific studies to consider that a fact. I'm sorry you disagree. Maybe you can write them and point out which scientific studies support your position.

good point, I'll agree that this is an issue that definitely needs work if a law is going to be passed. I would hope if a federal law was passed, the states would be doing something to comply with it, but we all know how the government works so who knows :rolleyes:

The Federal Government cannot pass a law regarding driving regulations for the states to comply to... It's simply the way the constitution makes our government work.

Now you're just acting childish if you think "i beleive people should be able to do what they want" is a more valid argument than the billions of tax dollars we could be saving/generating. That's just ignorant, you obviously have difficulty admitting when you're wrong about something.

Mine is a philosophical view of the way governments and people should interact. It applies across the board to everything.

You simply want Marijuana legal for recreational use. You apply your standards here, and only here. If you applied any of your arguments to anything else, they obviously fail.

We spend billions on lots of different crimes... if only they weren't illegal, we wouldn't be spending all that money.

I like how you glaze over the other points i've made... you are picking the reasons that aren't as sound to prove your point

I'm not going to keep repeating your points for you. None of your points are sound.

Here's a hint: If you can apply the SAME reasoning to things you DON'T want to be legal, and the SAME reasoning applies, then your reasoning fails.

If we spend billions investigating and prosecuting murders, then by making them legal, we would save billions.

That argument applies, but it simply disproves the validity of your argument for marijuana.

the fact that you are saying this after claiming your "compelling argument to back up your position" was "people should be able to do what they want" makes you sound a bit foolish.

I'm guessing that you don't understand the logic behind it, for the same reason that you don't understand why your reasoning fails.

You have pointed out all of the bad things that happen to people who are involved in crime with regards to marijuana.

However, since those same bad things happen to people who are involved with OTHER crimes... you either have to accept that those crimes should be legalized, or that your argument fails.

You have pointed out that we could save billions by legalizing marijuana.

However, there are plenty of crimes that we could save billions if we legalized.

But you don't want to legalize THOSE crimes. Your logic fails.

Every one of your arguments can be successfully applied to something you don't want legalized... which means your argument fails.


My argument, applies across the board to EVERY law, and EVERY substance across the board, and across the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Agreed. You have actually presented a less convincing argument than I have. "People should be able to do what they want" just doesnt hold water :rolleyes:

You don't really understand the logic behind discussions like these... do you?

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, and what was the highest grade you completed? Not meant to be snarky, but I am curious. I know this kind of logic isn't taught in High School, but I assume at least most college curriculum teach it at some point.
 
So basically, if you took a prescription drug two weeks ago, and soberly bump into a person's mailbox, you will go to jail? This can't fail!

Without being able to determine when someone is actually impaired by something, it is the only preventative that we would have to protect the public from Driving while drugged.
 
The Federal Government cannot pass a law regarding driving regulations for the states to comply to... It's simply the way the constitution makes our government work.

That's not what I meant by that. I meant I would hope states would create laws to help control impaired driving.

Mine is a philosophical view of the way governments and people should interact. It applies across the board to everything.

But that isn't how they interact. So according to you, that argument fails.

You simply want Marijuana legal for recreational use. You apply your standards here, and only here. If you applied any of your arguments to anything else, they obviously fail.

I would also like it to be legal for medicinal reasons, but yes, I think it would mainly be used as a recreational substance.

We spend billions on lots of different crimes... if only they weren't illegal, we wouldn't be spending all that money.

If we spend billions investigating and prosecuting murders, then by making them legal, we would save billions.

The issue at hand isn't murders, it's legalization of a plant. There is a very big difference between those crimes. And I also don't see how murders would generate tax dollars?

You have pointed out all of the bad things that happen to people who are involved in crime with regards to marijuana.

However, since those same bad things happen to people who are involved with OTHER crimes... you either have to accept that those crimes should be legalized, or that your argument fails.

no, my argument doesn't "fail", because this is something that should have never been made illegal in the first place. It hurts the general public less than alcohol or cigarettes. Murder, on the other hand should be illegal.

You have pointed out that we could save billions by legalizing marijuana.

However, there are plenty of crimes that we could save billions if we legalized.

But you don't want to legalize THOSE crimes. Your logic fails.

no, I don't beleive so. You are applying ONE of the reasons I provided to come to this conclusion. It is this reason coupled with many others which supports my argument of legalization.

The same thing can be said about your argument. "People should be able to do what they want" - so we should be able to go around throwing pipe bombs through windows and punching old women in the face? According to you, if you can apply your argument to crimes you DON'T want to be legal, your logic fails. So since you've now successfully proved your own logic fails, what other arguments do you have for legalization?

My argument, applies across the board to EVERY law, and EVERY substance across the board, and across the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

I'm a little confused here... so are you saying you think EVERYTHING should be legal, even rape or murder? But you're still concerned about people driving high? People can't just go around doing what they want in a civilized society. And you are questioning my intelligence?


If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, and what was the highest grade you completed? Not meant to be snarky, but I am curious. I know this kind of logic isn't taught in High School, but I assume at least most college curriculum teach it at some point.

what college do they teach you "I think people should be able to do what they want" is a good argument for repealing a law? Would you send that one in a letter to your congressman? "Dear mr. congressman: I feel that marijuana should be made legal because we as people should be able to whatever we feel like doing. However, I think we should have a way to test if you are driving high. But don't prosecute anyone for it, because they should be able to drive high if they want to. Sincerely yours, byteware. :rolleyes:
 
So, I never mailed in my ballot because I still wasn't sure how to vote on prop 19. After being rest assured I could turn in my vote by mail ballot into any polling place and my vote would count, I today have decided my vote will be NO on Prop 19.

I'm willing to vote on legalizing marijuana sometime in the future if the prop is written properly, with more safety features, and loopholes closed.

I gave this a lot of thought, and after reading the prop in detail, it doesn't make sense to vote yes on it this time.

There were also many personal factors that went into my thought process.

I have known very intelligent people, with bright futures destroyed by marijuana. I had one friend in particular who started smoking his junior year at Stanford. Then was accepted to law school, and subsequently dropped out, the reason was certainly marijuana.

I've also known people who use marijuana as an antidepressant. They never get to the root of the problem, instead they turn into pot heads, trying to numb the pain instead of getting to the underlying cause. Sadly many of these people whom I no longer really speak to, are still pot heads, and not very productive members of society.

Although these factors do not particularly impact my life, simply because I can turn my back and stop being friends with such people. However, I do think legalizing marijuana will open the door for more younger people to get their hands on it. Additionally, it will not generate any substantial tax revenue, nor will it stop marijuana drug trafficking and violence.

Other factors include very reputable studies I have read in detail, which do indicate marijuana, including those purchased from medicinal pharmacies are high in toxins and pesticides, some of which are very dangerous, and become stored by the body. There is also evidence that marijuana may trigger schizophrenia. I don't know the specifics, but the scientist in me wants to think that marijuana may somehow act upon regulators, activate or deactivate some transcription factors, thus activating or deactivating genes that would result in schizophrenia. Since schizophrenia has shown physiological evidence of smaller volume in key brain structures, this process would not be reversible. Again, this is just speculation on my part, and I have not read the studies that link schizophrenia and marijuana use.

Prop 19 currently has no safety measures in place, and no real way for law reinforcement to take proper measures to make sure the public is kept safe. Moreover, California is in no financial situation to allocate funds for this purpose at this moment.

Also how do we test people when the drug has a tendency to persist in your system for a long time. How do I as law enforcement or an employer know if you smoked last night or smoked prior coming to work? Really there is no definite way, and this fine line does nothing more than open the door for potential lawsuits for wrongful termination

Finally, another somewhat personal experience helped me with my decision. My sisters fiance spent millions renovating a penthouse in New York and making it superb. Well one problem, a neighbor smokes weed, and even with the best insulation and air system, the smell and smoke does make its way into his penthouse. He is a surgeon and in no way can he ever test positive, otherwise it will impact his practice and negatively impact his medical license status. I am leaving out a lot of details, but eventually lawyers had to get involved, and lots of wasted money. For this reason I am voting No. I personally hate the smell of weed. If my neighbor one day is smoking weed, and that horrid smell makes its way onto my property, there is literally nothing I can do. If the prop passes, and my neighbors are over 21, on their own property, and have only 1ounce of weed, then my complaints will get me absolutely to no resolution. Additionally, if I am holding some type of job position that requires regular or spontaneous drug testing, I would fail because my neighbors wanted to smoke. This is a loophole that needs to be closed.

At this time, my vote is No. Maybe in the future, I am open to voting yes on a more carefully written prop.
 
I've also known people who use marijuana as an antidepressant. They never get to the root of the problem, instead they turn into pot heads, trying to numb the pain instead of getting to the underlying cause. Sadly many of these people whom I no longer really speak to, are still pot heads, and not very productive members of society.

this is the same problem with prescription anti-depressants....

Although these factors do not particularly impact my life....

so why would you even care what they do?

I do think legalizing marijuana will open the door for more younger people to get their hands on it.

marijuana is easier for young people to get than alcohol because it is unregulated. It would be harder if it was government controlled, however I will agree that in the Prop. 19 situation you are probably correct.

Additionally, it will not generate any substantial tax revenue, nor will it stop marijuana drug trafficking and violence.

Again, I think if it was made legal on a federal level it would, but on prop 19 you are absolutely right... if california was the only state to offer it legally, people would probably just go to nevada or arizona and get untaxed marijuana for cheaper.

Other factors include very reputable studies I have read in detail, which do indicate marijuana, including those purchased from medicinal pharmacies are high in toxins and pesticides, some of which are very dangerous, and become stored by the body. There is also evidence that marijuana may trigger schizophrenia. I don't know the specifics, but the scientist in me wants to think that marijuana may somehow act upon regulators, activate or deactivate some transcription factors, thus activating or deactivating genes that would result in schizophrenia. Since schizophrenia has shown physiological evidence of smaller volume in key brain structures, this process would not be reversible. Again, this is just speculation on my part, and I have not read the studies that link schizophrenia and marijuana use.

other studies disagree, but I think any study can be pretty biased

Also how do we test people when the drug has a tendency to persist in your system for a long time. How do I as law enforcement or an employer know if you smoked last night or smoked prior coming to work? Really there is no definite way, and this fine line does nothing more than open the door for potential lawsuits for wrongful termination

a hair folicle test can tell how long ago you last smoked pot.. i don't think they would be getting tested every day when they come into work, only if there was reasonable suspicion.


I agree with you on just about all of your points, and if I was a california resident I would probably vote no and wait for a proposition that was written better as well. I think legalizing on a federal level would be the way to go
 
Without being able to determine when someone is actually impaired by something, it is the only preventative that we would have to protect the public from Driving while drugged.

As has already been said, it is definitely possible to determine if someone is impaired. OVI laws are very effective.

I think it's great policy that people who legally take their prescription drugs are at risk of being thrown in jail for 6 months.
 
But that isn't how they interact. So according to you, that argument fails.

And marijuana isn't illegal, so any argument as to it should be illegal automatically fails.

Seriously? This is simple logic my friend.

The issue at hand isn't murders, it's legalization of a plant. There is a very big difference between those crimes. And I also don't see how murders would generate tax dollars?

But your reasoning ALSO applies to murders.

no, my argument doesn't "fail", because this is something that should have never been made illegal in the first place. It hurts the general public less than alcohol or cigarettes. Murder, on the other hand should be illegal.

You get to decide why something should be legal?

no, I don't beleive so. You are applying ONE of the reasons I provided to come to this conclusion. It is this reason coupled with many others which supports my argument of legalization.

I'm applying EVERY argument you've brought forth... I'm just not going to spend forever rehashing what you've already stated.

The same thing can be said about your argument. "People should be able to do what they want" - so we should be able to go around throwing pipe bombs through windows and punching old women in the face? According to you, if you can apply your argument to crimes you DON'T want to be legal, your logic fails. So since you've now successfully proved your own logic fails, what other arguments do you have for legalization?

Did you not READ my argument?

They should be able to do whatever they want UNTIL it infringes on the rights of others.

Pipe bombs obviously infringe on other people's rights to life.

I'm a little confused here... so are you saying you think EVERYTHING should be legal, even rape or murder? But you're still concerned about people driving high? People can't just go around doing what they want in a civilized society. And you are questioning my intelligence?

Yes, I am beginning to question your intelligence.

I propose a standard. That applies to EVERY law in the United States.

If the action (gay marriage) doesn't infringe on the rights of others, then it should be legal. If the action (murder) infringes on the rights of others, then it should be illegal.

Is it the word infringe that you don't understand, or "rights" that you don't understand?

what college do they teach you "I think people should be able to do what they want" is a good argument for repealing a law? Would you send that one in a letter to your congressman? "Dear mr. congressman: I feel that marijuana should be made legal because we as people should be able to whatever we feel like doing. However, I think we should have a way to test if you are driving high. But don't prosecute anyone for it, because they should be able to drive high if they want to. Sincerely yours, byteware. :rolleyes:

You really don't understand the difference between logic, and a logical argument?
 
As has already been said, it is definitely possible to determine if someone is impaired. OVI laws are very effective.

I think it's great policy that people who legally take their prescription drugs are at risk of being thrown in jail for 6 months.

If they are legally taking a drug that impairs their ability to not kill the people they are on the road with... then yes, it IS a great policy.
 
And marijuana isn't illegal, so any argument as to it should be illegal automatically fails.

Seriously? This is simple logic my friend.

that doesn't make any sense, grammatically or otherwise... you should go back and read what you were replying to. You said yours was a "philosophical view of the way governments and people should interact" and I reminded you that earlier you also said "no one would be criminals if the crimes they committed weren't illegal" in other words since they are illegal it doesn't matter. The same applies to your "philisophical view".. according to you, since it doesnt work like that, the point is invalid


But your reasoning ALSO applies to murders.
No, it doesn't, because as I mentioned earlier it doesn't intentionally hurt or affect the lives of others. These are two completely different crimes. You could also say due to the cost of gas in patrol cars, we should have all police officers ride horses instead of in vehicles... yes the argument could apply, but it's not the issue at hand. And it's a ridiculous argument at that. The pros of your murder argument don't even come close to outweighing the cons. My argument is that the advantages of legalization and regulation of marijuana outweigh the disadvantages of continuing prohibition. THAT is why it doesn't apply.

You get to decide why something should be legal?
I beleive I should have a vote in it, yes. I beleive you should be able to put in your .02 as well



Did you not READ my argument?

They should be able to do whatever they want UNTIL it infringes on the rights of others.

Pipe bombs obviously infringe on other people's rights to life.

but, according to you legalizing it does infringe on the rights of others:
as we've been discussing, it DOES hurt people.

so yes, i've read your argument. actually, it seems like I'm understanding it better than you do.


Yes, I am beginning to question your intelligence.

I propose a standard. That applies to EVERY law in the United States.

If the action (gay marriage) doesn't infringe on the rights of others, then it should be legal. If the action (murder) infringes on the rights of others, then it should be illegal.

Is it the word infringe that you don't understand, or "rights" that you don't understand?

Oh I understand them both, and actually agree completely with this standpoint. But according to you marijuana doesn't apply to this situation, because it infringes on the rights of others. Ironically, this is your very argument for legalization. You can keep playing lawyer all day, but I'm going to keep calling you out on contradicting yourself. And you can say that my arguments aren't good enough reasons all you want, but so far you've only provided me with one, and now you've debunked it.

We might as well just go ahead and agree to disagree because this is never going to go anywhere productive. We both want it to be legal and we both have our reasons! :D
 
tommy_ed friend i have been worried about you my friend...

I took a while to think about what i was going to say to help you out with ur problems dude... plz don't be offended i am trying to help you with this post and i am going to write about my own experiences with doctors and what they said and thought about my crazy behaviour...

Do you know what the 1st thing my psychiatrist asked me when i was half crazy and paranoid and angry with life and everyone and I thought that every1 was out to kill me or murder me?

The question was: Do you smoke cannibis Wayne? That was the first question he asked me....

I have never taken illegal drugs in my life..i got my schizoform condition without drugs it was a natural occurrence...but no1 believed me cause i was crazy and made me have a drug test and i don't blame them at all... i was out of control.

I am doing fine now on the medication... but go crazy everynow and then...

The doctors say that smoking weed causes dopamine and serotonin in ur brain to go out of controll and there can be serious consequences when this happens...

1) Paranoia can happen...thinking people are against you and are not ur friends at all etc. This was the worst symptom i have ever had....i lost my mind because of this

2) hallucinations and hearing voices .... and seeing things that aren't there at all...not too much here that i got out these symptoms just smelling strange smells that were not there...

3) Depression...

So i hope i can change your mind...

By the way... my friend Andrew started out just like you did now...untill 1 thing lead to another and he was gone forever...

So... i really hope i change ur mind friend.

Keep well dude

Ur a nice guy and deserve better in life and shud come off it :)

Keep well friend and it's okay to feel down ;)

Regards

Wayne
 
I appreciate the concern stinky, but you could have worded it better. I don't have "problems" and I am a little offended. Why would I need help? I smoke marijuana maybe once a month socially. Would you say the same thing to someone who occasionally has a beer? There is nothing wrong with it.

You are misinformed if you think there are serious health consequences from smoking pot. Former surgeon general Joycelyn Elders has stated that "marijuana is a non-toxic substance" that is non-addictive. Yes, there are short-term effects but about the only permanent effects are those caused by smoking.

Let me just come out and say I have smoked A LOT of marijuana. For about three years straight I smoked just about every day. I have NEVER heard of anyone "tripping" from casually smoking marijuana. Maybe if they smoked a ridiculous amount, but even then, I've never had it happen. And I've never seen any of my friends get high and suddenly think all of us hate them? If what your saying is true, then why aren't all of my friends running around as depressed schizophrenic paranoid maniacs? Why is not even one of them doing this? You would think if those facts were true at least ONE of them would be suffering from this.

Smoking a joint is no worse for society than taking a shot of liquor. In fact, it would probably be even less so, considering it's a non-violent drug.

Thanks for caring, but I don't have a problem. And I'm not "feeling down"? Marijuana is not as bad as your government wants you to think. And if you call that "paranoia", read up on how it became an illegal substance and get back to me :)
 
I know i have trouble communicating sometimes sorry friend ... :(

I will try word better in future dude i need to really work on it.... ;)

Okay... i understand what your trying to say dude... i know beer / alcohol is not good at all for society... there are most probably more deaths asociated with alcohol than anything else... i agree it shud also be banned ... sadly i don't think it will....

However... i have this info for you from schizophrenia.com .... and it's the truth... and i am concerned for ur safety: :(

Marijuana, Cannabis and Schizophrenia - Schizophrenia.com

and i recall my doctor saying this term once i tried to recall the memory just for you dude ;)

Dual diagnosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EDIT

I am really sorry i did not mean to offend you friend... i meant no harm ;)

Your a really nice guy and very a clever person too! :)

I hope you change your mind

And yes.... i know you have no problems... but i was just trying to help you ;)

It's never too late to change buddy :)
 
i think you misread, i don't want alcohol to be illegal, but rather marijuana to be legal

and yes, some people develop mild schizophrenia as a side effect of long-term marijuana usage, but it's not as common as you're making it out to be. Just like some people have side effects to over the counter medications, etc.

i'm not mad or anything i know you're just trying to be nice, but by saying things like "it's never too late to change" you are insinuating that there is something wrong with me casually smoking pot every once in a while. There's nothing wrong with it. Just like there's nothing wrong with having a drink or a cigarette if you want one. Sure, maybe it's bad for your health, but that's your decision to make and you're not any less of a good person for doing it.
 
I say legalize every drug across America. Fix the prices and make them so cheap that nobody will want to produce them. Then the losers who insist on doing drugs can make them themselves and hopefully blow up their house and die in the process. And without drug money to support them, gangs aren't shit. That kills two birds, and many losers, with one stone!
 
I say legalize every drug across America. Fix the prices and make them so cheap that nobody will want to produce them. Then the losers who insist on doing drugs can make them themselves and hopefully blow up their house and die in the process. And without drug money to support them, gangs aren't shit. That kills two birds, and many losers, with one stone!

Ignore this person.... he is being very rude so just forget this....

@ intoomuch: This is not called for.... please behave....and have respect... this is no laughing matter..... don't make me report you.... control urself plz

Hey tommy_ed and I really don't mean to harm you here with this statement but...there must be a reason for you taking it....no offence... i really do not want to hurt your feelings at all...

And Yes i totally agree with you my friend. I know that people shud be allowed to do whatever they want to do...that is the true meaning of freedom....as long as you are a good person.... but you must be responsible for your actions because some actions have consequences...

Think about your actions you are doing at the moment...

And I did not want to hurt your feelings at all that was not my intent friend .... and hell no! I do not think any less of you for smoking cannabis...not at all friend!

Keep well dude your a nice guy and I see you play many musical instruments.... i play guitar and a blues harmonica (blues harp) :).... but the blues harp i am not that good at playing hahahah lol ;)

Note: You can always PM me if you really want friend... i am always here ;)

Regards

And stay strong dude ;)

Wayne
 
Ignore this person.... he is being very rude so just forget this....

@ intoomuch: This is not called for.... please behave....and have respect... this is no laughing matter..... don't make me report you.... control urself plz
Go ahead. Report me for having an opinion. You are being very dumb.
 
Go ahead. Report me for having an opinion. You are being very dumb.

Okay I am sorry friend.... I was just a bit upset of how you approached it with him... I apologize.... my bad....try have a little more respect that's all friend i was trying to say

I know you are angry with substance abusers but try to understand....I know it can be hard to walk a mile in some1's shoes sometimes ....

Sorry :)

Stinky
 
that doesn't make any sense, grammatically or otherwise... you should go back and read what you were replying to.

That was exactly the point. My post didn't make sense, because it was using the same logic of the post I was replying to.

Logic really isn't taught anywhere these days.

No, it doesn't, because as I mentioned earlier it doesn't intentionally hurt or affect the lives of others. These are two completely different crimes.[/Qutoe]

As we've discussed, it DOES hurt the lives of others. Australia did a study of those who died in fatal crashes. The higher the THC content in the bloodstream, the more likely the person was at fault for the accident.

Killing people affects the lives of others.

And the point I am making, which you fail to grasp repeatedly, is that you have to present a persuasive argument, that doesn't apply to murder. If your argument is that people convicted of possession of marijuana have bad effects because of their conviction, then that is easily applied to EVERY crime, and you don't want to do that. What you are left with, is that you are using that as an excuse for legalizing marijuana.

I beleive I should have a vote in it, yes. I beleive you should be able to put in your .02 as well

Do you believe that for EVERY crime? Or just marijuana?

but, according to you legalizing it does infringe on the rights of others:

I also presented a case for how to minimize that infringement... so, yes... I've thought this out.

so yes, i've read your argument. actually, it seems like I'm understanding it better than you do.

Really? Because it seems like you've failed to grasp basic logic in this debate. That's not an insult, just an observation.

Ironically, this is your very argument for legalization. You can keep playing lawyer all day, but I'm going to keep calling you out on contradicting yourself.

Let me get this straight... just so we are clear.

I've stated that marijuana infringes on the rights of others, and stated that it should be legalized and I proposed the legal action that should be required to minimize that infringement on the rights of others.

And that's a contradiction? I think you need to look up that word.
 
As we've discussed, it DOES hurt the lives of others. Australia did a study of those who died in fatal crashes. The higher the THC content in the bloodstream, the more likely the person was at fault for the accident.

Killing people affects the lives of others.

And the point I am making, which you fail to grasp repeatedly, is that you have to present a persuasive argument, that doesn't apply to murder.

it doesnt hurt the lives of others every time the "crime" is committed, and it doesn't hurt intentionally. And I'm pretty sure not one of my arguments can be applied to murder.. as I said earlier (and you obviously ignored) my argument is that the costs of prohibition don't outweigh the benefits of legalizing it. This doesn't apply to murder.

If your argument is that people convicted of possession of marijuana have bad effects because of their conviction, then that is easily applied to EVERY crime, and you don't want to do that. What you are left with, is that you are using that as an excuse for legalizing marijuana.

I just love how you keep coming back to this one point. As I said about three or four posts ago, we are not understanding each other on this particular point. You keep bringing it up because we both know that of all the points I've made, this is in fact the weakest one. Yes, I admit this particular point was a weak one. But it wasn't even close to being my main point.And once again you miss the point that other than this one crime, the people I'm concerned about have NO other convictions, and their crime doesn't hurt anyone. You can NEVER say the same with murder.

Do you believe that for EVERY crime? Or just marijuana?

I don't think it would be practical for the american people to vote on EVERY law in existence every year, obviously. I think if a group of people feel like a law should be changed, they should be able to present it and have it voted on by citizens.

I also presented a case for how to minimize that infringement... so, yes... I've thought this out.

minimize maybe, but you're still infringing on the rights of others!

Let me get this straight... just so we are clear.

I've stated that marijuana infringes on the rights of others, and stated that it should be legalized and I proposed the legal action that should be required to minimize that infringement on the rights of others.

And that's a contradiction? I think you need to look up that word.

HAHA yes its a contradiction... let me help you buddy:

Contradiction:
4. Direct opposition between things compared; inconsistency
Did you not READ my argument?

Here are some examples:

They should be able to do whatever they want UNTIL it infringes on the rights of others.

FOLLOWED BY:

Let me get this straight... just so we are clear.

I've stated that marijuana infringes on the rights of others


I propose a standard. That applies to EVERY law in the United States.

If the action (gay marriage) doesn't infringe on the rights of others, then it should be legal. If the action (murder) infringes on the rights of others, then it should be illegal.

Is it the word infringe that you don't understand, or "rights" that you don't understand?

FOLLOWED BY

I've stated that marijuana infringes on the rights of others

THEN WE HAVE:
I think the law for driving will have to work like this... if you have an accident where you are determined to be at fault, you must take a urinalysis. If it is determined that you have any medicine that could have impaired you in your system, you are guilty of DUI.

FOLLOWED BY:

Actually, a blood urine test will not simply tell you if you are under the influence. It will tell you that you HAVE been under the influence within the last month or so, but it will not tell you if you are CURRENTLY under the influence.

Hence, the problem with MJ and driving.
The field sobriety test, absolutely. Are you criminally putting people's lives at risk?

Are you a habitually driving while high? Field sobriety test won't stop you before you kill someone.
Because there is no test to determine if someone is currently under the influence of marijuana.
Personally, until a "your currently high" test can be performed accurately, you don't really have an argument for legalizing it.


-Contradiction
Maybe you should have looked up that word :rolleyes:

seriously though, this will NEVER end. Words can be twisted however you like.
 
Okay I am sorry friend.... I was just a bit upset of how you approached it with him... I apologize.... my bad....try have a little more respect that's all friend i was trying to say

I know you are angry with substance abusers but try to understand....I know it can be hard to walk a mile in some1's shoes sometimes ....

Sorry :)

Stinky
My comment wasn't directed at anybody in particular. I don't know why you assumed it was. It is just general statement about how I feel about drugs and drug users.
 
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