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Comparing SSD's

AHCI is Intel's product. And it's not a CPU issue, so an Intel/AMD comparison is beside the point.

I beg to differ. AHCI is a technical standard defined by Intel. Mainboards with AMD chipsets use AMD-written drivers that comply with that standard, and I've never seen anything from AMD warning about issues with AHCI.

Otoh, I remember the trouble users had with X-25 SSDs becoming paperweights when a firmware update was performed in AHCI mode, even though it was supposedly supported. More recently, the latest Intel SSD Toolbox software no longer recognises an Intel SSD if an AMD driver is loaded; the previous version had no such issue. So it's fair to say that I don't view Intel as paragons of virtue. ;)
 
I beg to differ.
Before you do, I wish you'd consider the difference between an individual thinking of AMD as only a CPU manufacturer, and the more complex realities of this matter. Remember that reality isn't a function of peoples' perceptions (or misperceptions, as the case may be) of that reality. I'm not really asking you to change that post, but I still think that it's important to eschew magical thinking when explaining how stuff works to others. :) IJS

AHCI is a technical standard defined by Intel.
Yes, I know. I thought I made that clear in my last post. A chain is only as good as it's weakest link, and even Intel doesn't advise using AHCI mode.

Mainboards with AMD chipsets use AMD-written drivers that comply with that standard, and I've never seen anything from AMD warning about issues with AHCI.
While both Intel and AMD make chipsets for their own CPUs, it's not an exclusive thing. There are other chipset makers out there. And personally I wouldn't be so quick to assume that all device drivers must be written by the chipset maker. I also wouldn't be so naive as to believe that an absence of warning means that everything's hunky dory! :eek:

Let's look at some real world examples:

My older Gigabyte motherboard has an Award BIOS for the motherboard. But if you switch to AHCI mode, a separate option ROM loads. Yes, this option ROM has a copyright notice that says its firmware was written by AMD. But the Linux kernel driver for AHCI was written (or at least maintained) by a guy named Jeff Garzik, with Red Hat being the copyright holder, not AMD or Intel.

My newer, but not that new ASUS box has an ASUS motherboard (natch) with Award BIOS that handles AHCI in firmware itself. When I enable AHCI on it, I don't get an option ROM during bootup like I get with the other box, and like everyone gets with their video cards. This motherboard has the Award BIOS (the BIOS is not part of the chipset, BTW) providing BIOS support for AHCI.

This box is running Windows 7, and although I'm running Catalyst software to manage all chipset and AMD and Via drivers, the actual drivers that Windows uses have digital signatures from Microsoft. Ditto for my Intel-based laptop with Windows 7.

Those three boxes don't have RAID cards, but if they did (laptop excepted, of course), it would be the option ROM from the RAID card (and nothing else) that provides the firmware. And, as above, the software drivers would depend on the OS installed. That's how it works! :)

Otoh, I remember the trouble users had with X-25 SSDs becoming paperweights when a firmware update was performed in AHCI mode, even though it was supposedly supported. More recently, the latest Intel SSD Toolbox software no longer recognises an Intel SSD if an AMD driver is loaded; the previous version had no such issue. So it's fair to say that I don't view Intel as paragons of virtue. ;)
Maybe that's why my early generation Patriot SSD never worked properly, and bricked itself during a firmware upgrade. It has too many bad memories attached to it for me to use it as a paperweight, and it's too light to be a boat anchor, so... :dontknow:

The bottom line (still) is to learn about stuff like AHCI first, and don't forget that it's there and can be shut off if there are problems. MOF that's a pretty good rule of thumb for all sorts of situations, if I do say so myself. :D
 
Sorry to diverge from the ACHi and stuff...

But my SSD is indexed atm. I should remove that, right? Is it ok to index the stuff on my HDD (my documents in particular) from the Windows on my SSD?
 
You mean Windows indexing? I've never found a good use for Windows indexing, and since it does add overhead, I like to shut it off.

If you do a lot of searches, especially of file contents and metadata, you might benefit from using Windows indexing. If you want to get the best performance out of your shiny new SSD, keep it off. :D
 
Before you do, I wish you'd consider the difference between an individual thinking of AMD as only a CPU manufacturer, and the more complex realities of this matter.

Care to explain exactly where I'm considering CPU manufacturers? Nothing in my previous posts mentioned CPUs. I'm talking about the chipsets (you know, the things that determine how the bits and bytes move between the SSD and the rest of the system) and those are also manufactured by both AMD and Intel.

I'm not really asking you to change that post, but I still think that it's important to eschew magical thinking when explaining how stuff works to others. :) IJS
Wow, do you make a habit of patronising everyone who offers an alternate viewpoint to your own? That Wiki link is, quite frankly, insulting. :mad:

I thought I made that clear in my last post.
A "product" is far removed from a "technical standard". The former implies some degree of proprietorial control.

While both Intel and AMD make chipsets for their own CPUs, it's not an exclusive thing. There are other chipset makers out there. And personally I wouldn't be so quick to assume that all device drivers must be written by the chipset maker.
No, but you're quick enough to read between the lines and assume things that I didn't write. For example, I'm well aware that AMD and Intel are not the only game in town. However I have an AM2 board with AMD chipsets and I use AMD drivers, which is why I used the example I did. It's called "illustrating the point".
 
Aside from nerdy fussing over brands and who said what how..

What the heck is with the lack of OCZ Vertex SSDs?

I know the Sammys are slightly faster but the Vertex 4 vs Samsung 840 Pro is almost a dead heat in terms of performance with the Vertex 4 going on sale for upwards of $60 less for the 256GB model (16GB more than the Samsung)!?

(Or at least it was in late December when I went to SSD)

I've been debating an SSD for my laptop, knowing that Android is optimized for solid-state disk access, but none of the recent x86 ports are capable of booting my older laptop chipset.. yet!

By the time I have something working on the laptop there will probably be a new controller out and I'll just retire this SSD in my computer over to the laptop and get the latest deal. ;P
 
Aside from nerdy fussing over brands and who said what how..

What the heck is with the lack of OCZ Vertex SSDs?

I know the Sammys are slightly faster but the Vertex 4 vs Samsung 840 Pro is almost a dead heat in terms of performance with the Vertex 4 going on sale for upwards of $60 less for the 256GB model (16GB more than the Samsung)!?

(Or at least it was in late December when I went to SSD)

I've been debating an SSD for my laptop, knowing that Android is optimized for solid-state disk access, but none of the recent x86 ports are capable of booting my older laptop chipset.. yet!

By the time I have something working on the laptop there will probably be a new controller out and I'll just retire this SSD in my computer over to the laptop and get the latest deal. ;P

I don't have anything against OCZ for SSD's. I actually recommended one to a friend of mine, which he did go ahead and purchase the OCZ Vector 128GB model about 3 weeks ago. I went with the Sammy 840 Pro because it was a sick deal that I couldn't pass up, plus it being king of the hill of the SSD market.
 
Care to explain exactly where I'm considering CPU manufacturers? Nothing in my previous posts mentioned CPUs.
Nothing mentioned CPUs, no; but did mention CPU manufacturers (which after all what you wrote just above):
I wonder if it's Intel themselves who are having the "bug" issues? AMD appear to have no concerns.
That was the start of the "Intel v. AMD" comparison.

Also, you did answer me me directly after I wrote "AHCI is Intel's product. And it's not a CPU issue, so an Intel/AMD comparison is beside the point." And in fact you disputed that:
I beg to differ.
(emphasis mine) Fair enough?

Look, my only interest here is education. That includes bringing what looks like questionable logic to light, so it can be sorted out. If I was wrong about your motivations, you have my unabashed apologies. Likewise, if there might have been a little something to my caveat about questionable cause, I'm trusting you to have the higher angels to not "shoot the messenger" here.

What say we both just drop this in the interest of those who just want good answers, OK?
 
I don't have anything against OCZ for SSD's. I actually recommended one to a friend of mine, which he did go ahead and purchase the OCZ Vector 128GB model about 3 weeks ago. I went with the Sammy 840 Pro because it was a sick deal that I couldn't pass up, plus it being king of the hill of the SSD market.
What I'd like to know is the often huge disparity between read and write speeds, as much as 4:1 with the 840 line. Doesn't it seem suspicious that only the top of the line drives can write as fast as they read? And why doesn't anyone make a modestly sized SSD with the same specs as their largest (and costliest) ones?
 
Aside from nerdy fussing over brands and who said what how..

What the heck is with the lack of OCZ Vertex SSDs?

I know the Sammys are slightly faster but the Vertex 4 vs Samsung 840 Pro is almost a dead heat in terms of performance with the Vertex 4 going on sale for upwards of $60 less for the 256GB model (16GB more than the Samsung)!?

(Or at least it was in late December when I went to SSD)

I've been debating an SSD for my laptop, knowing that Android is optimized for solid-state disk access, but none of the recent x86 ports are capable of booting my older laptop chipset.. yet!

By the time I have something working on the laptop there will probably be a new controller out and I'll just retire this SSD in my computer over to the laptop and get the latest deal. ;P


I think the general feeling (true or not) is the OCZ drives lacked in reliability and were always expensive (in the past). All they used to have going for them was speed. This may not be as true any more.

Samsung are not cheap, but they had good reliability, barring some launch bugs. And with the 840 Pro they smoked the competition speed wise.
 
What I'd like to know is the often huge disparity between read and write speeds, as much as 4:1 with the 840 line. Doesn't it seem suspicious that only the top of the line drives can write as fast as they read? And why doesn't anyone make a modestly sized SSD with the same specs as their largest (and costliest) ones?

That's not an 840 line problem, or even Sammy specific, all SSD drives have nearly that ratio... I think (quick glance at benches here )

Define "modestly sized" :)
 
I think the general feeling (true or not) is the OCZ drives lacked in reliability and were always expensive (in the past). All they used to have going for them was speed. This may not be as true any more.

Samsung are not cheap, but they had good reliability, barring some launch bugs. And with the 840 Pro they smoked the competition speed wise.

ALP, in my experience I have had awesome performance from OCZ's as has everyone I know running them. I have yet to see a failure and a good friend of mine who is a system builder has hundreds of them out with no issue. I have had a Vertex 3 and an Agility 2 in one system for about a year now and it still runs smooth as can be.

I tend to take what is seen online and in the magazines with a grain of salt and rely more on real world experience. A trend I have seen (with all products, not just computers) is when something goes wrong it is trumpeted from every corner but when things run smoothly you almost never hear about it. I have a new rule I live by because of this (brought on by a product we offer and are about to dump), if you are looking at any particular product and you find nothing negative at all said about it stay away from it! Somebody somewhere will always have something negative to say about any product.
 
I forgot if I reported back or not, so here's my report anyway!

The SanDisk SSD I picked up has performed phenomially, Windows 7 loads up from cold boot in a snap, even before the logo starts loading. My resource intensive programs go on the SSD, while I shove less used/less power hungry programs on my HDD. It's been an awesome combination and I can't believe I haven't picked one up sooner.
 
Yep. Out of the available 230GB I have around 180 left with no games or even most of my pictures/videos - just a few programs.

I don't know if it's placebo but I think loading anything from the HDD seems to be a little bit quicker...
 
Anyone know what IRST and ISCT are? Or if I should bother trying to enable them?

Also, LucidLogix? I understand it just allows you to utilise the iGPU on the CPU when also using a graphics card?
 
ALP, in my experience I have had awesome performance from OCZ's as has everyone I know running them. I have yet to see a failure and a good friend of mine who is a system builder has hundreds of them out with no issue. I have had a Vertex 3 and an Agility 2 in one system for about a year now and it still runs smooth as can be.

I tend to take what is seen online and in the magazines with a grain of salt and rely more on real world experience. A trend I have seen (with all products, not just computers) is when something goes wrong it is trumpeted from every corner but when things run smoothly you almost never hear about it. I have a new rule I live by because of this (brought on by a product we offer and are about to dump), if you are looking at any particular product and you find nothing negative at all said about it stay away from it! Somebody somewhere will always have something negative to say about any product.

I totally agree! :)

I was just trying to explain what the general "internet consensus" used to be regarding OCZ: 'as only being good at speed'.

I'm not sure if that's the case nowadays. Frankly, to me, they all seem to have sorted out the controller issues.
 
Anyone know what IRST and ISCT are? Or if I should bother trying to enable them?

Also, LucidLogix? I understand it just allows you to utilise the iGPU on the CPU when also using a graphics card?

Honestly, it sounds like magic! (probably marketing magic!)

I'm not sure I believe all the claims they make, but it sounds like it is software based switching between discreet and integrated GPU, but also some type of optimization for the rending pipeline. They dont say specifically if both discreet and integrated are used simultaneously, but they give that impression on their site:

Lucidlogix with the multi gpu solution


They also have some vsync thing, to prevent tearing but allow over 60fps.
 
Anyone know what IRST and ISCT are? Or if I should bother trying to enable them?

Also, LucidLogix? I understand it just allows you to utilise the iGPU on the CPU when also using a graphics card?

I know that IRST is Intel Rapid Storage Technology. AFAIK, this is better used in a RAID set up, but it's the (Intel) driver used for AHCI or RAID. I think Windows has built-in drivers for either or though.

EDIT: http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/sb/CS-020784.htm
 
Oh right, so basically both aren't really needed :-P

@all ssd users : what have you done to the page file? (what even is it?)
 
Oh right, so basically both aren't really needed :-P

@all ssd users : what have you done to the page file? (what even is it?)

I left it where it was (on the SSD after W7U install) since I didn't see much purpose in moving it since I have 16GB RAM now.
 
1. 16GB is a lot, no? What do you use your PC for :-P?

2. If i have 8GB, is it worth moving it?

For the average person 8GB ram is plenty (6GB is the minimum I recommend for a system). If you are doing photo editing the more the better, in fact Photoshop will utilize as much ram as you can throw at it and they recommend you max your board out for best results. A good SSD scratch drive is beneficial as well for photo, video and audio editing.
 
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