Damn really? That's just irritating. I have some cell signal issues and am getting a droid razr tomorrow to see on saturday, if it can solve my issues on 4g at least. However if the s3 can still function with weak signal, then maybe it isn't really an issue. Sadly even a used s3 costs a bit too much for me to be able to justify, and will probably end up with a razr hd maxx in the long run anyway because it is more guaranteed to function and just seems a bit nicer to me.
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Discuss all Moto Droid Razr/Maxx HD rumors/release date/speculation/news
- Thread starter IHateMyTreo
- Start date
Damn really? That's just irritating. I have some cell signal issues and am getting a droid razr tomorrow to see on saturday, if it can solve my issues on 4g at least. However if the s3 can still function with weak signal, then maybe it isn't really an issue. Sadly even a used s3 costs a bit too much for me to be able to justify, and will probably end up with a razr hd maxx in the long run anyway because it is more guaranteed to function and just seems a bit nicer to me.
Are the signal issues somewhere random or at your house? If it's at your house and even with the best phone available you still have weak signal and marginal speeds, but maybe reliable connection, I would recommend investing in an areal outside antenna hooked into an in home cell repeater.
The new RAZR's will be a good bet regardless as they have the same baseband and such as the SIII which is the latest and most capable qualcomm offers. It's always tough to know what to expect from outright antenna/dbm performance from one generation of device to the next, even with Moto as concerns about device thickness and/or other things could trump a goal to match or better the signal performance of a previous gen device. The new baseband gens usually compensate for this though.
Sandroidfan
Android Expert
That's very informative link. I pretty much arrived at the same conclusion regarding Samsung radio issue on Verizon. I had two samsung feature phones back in 2006~2009 and they performed pretty strong in reception, call quality even deep inside buildings. Some of my friends had Moto Razr flip phones, but I didn't see much difference on reception. Those Samsung feature phones I owned had qualcomm CDMA chips.
Gnex is pretty much the first Samsung phone that I am having somewhat subpar reception though it's not so terrible like some other's. Fascinate was a bit better on call quality, 3G strength than Gnex though it was not outstanding like DX. I think trouble with Via chip/firmware was one of the reasons that they went back to Qualcomm chipset for Verizon network.
But I'm also of the opinion that Moto is getting the CDMA radio right most of time unlike Samsung sometimes dropping ball on it. Moto is definitely pretty solid on the radio. But others are catching up on it (HTC, Samsung, LG, etc), so they need to address their weak points like camera.
More like at my friend's house and when I drove to a town just north of me where they have 4g as well as at my local verizon store. Here are the results of my testing with different phones.
At my friend's house, in full 4g coverage. 3g got 2-3 bars on the gnex, so -83 to -93dbm, it is much more inaccurate thanks to verizon's update from what I understand things used to be reported better. I get 1-2 bars of 4g, but the signal is about the correct amount weaker given that 4g uses rsrp instead of rssi to estimate signal. However I find my phone has trouble getting 5mbps down. Actually i had 2 galaxy nexuses at his house, one could just hit 4 down and 1.5 up, the other one which i kept gets maybe 4-8 down and 1-2 up, but it is clearly struggling just to hit the 5/2 minimum verizon advertises even though 4g signal is not weak, and verizon's network should not be overloaded.
Separate from this, I went to my local verizon store and tested lte there. There is no lte in the area, but the store is on a hill and so phones pick it up. I got my galaxy nexus to get lte for just 1 speed test, it then dropped, speeds were fine oddly enough, I got something like 6 down and maybe 1.5mbps up, once again upload can't hit good speeds on weak signal. Going in the store, the motorola razr's found 4g fine and reported a stronger signal, and got 10-12mbps down and also 1.5-2 up, so same upload issues. The galaxy s3 barely found 4g, and couldn't hold it. The galaxy nexuses and mine in the store were unable to find it, and I couldn't find it outside of the store again. Clearly on fringe areas where coverage isn't quite reaching yet, the motorola phones pick it up and that's awesome. The samsung phones don't.
Furthermore I went to the town just north of me where there is 4g, and drove to a spot where my phone had sort of weak 4g, but that was before I knew about rsrp. I was getting about -105 to -114 dbm on the galaxy nexus and it struggled to hit 4mbps down as usual, despite the fact that this signal would be about equivalent to getting -83 to -93dbm on 3g. I then tested on my samsung stratosphere. I do not know how strong the signal was, but it clearly found 4g just fine and got 10-12mbps down super easy and got the same on upload while the 2 galaxy nexii were lucky to get 2-3mbps up. This showed me that once again the galaxy nexus struggles in signal that is even semi weak, even if such a signal should be healthy.
I don't think you can even blame the via chip, because my stratosphere has the same via chip, just one model number lower. Overall I think it really is just that the galaxy nexus has major issues. I don't know if a motorola phone would solve these with stronger signal, I also don't know if an s3 would not have these issues just because it works better with weak signal. However I do know the galaxy nexus has issues in places where it should have no issues, and where even other samsung phones have no issues.
I really think a lot of it has had something to do with very customized and VZW/Sprint dictated CDMA designs for the devices on CDMA. They have had to go and create pretty unique hardware for each network until the SIII. At least, with T-Mo/AT&T the chipset and internals and such can be pretty much the same as the broader marketed version and you only have to change the aesthetics. With Sprint/VZW I think the recover some of the extra effort to basically make a totally new device for each network by cheaping out on the components. These OEMs KNOW the VIA Telecom parts are subpar no doubt and due to that I am sure VIA can't ask as much money for their stuff as competitors. The only reason you would use them is for cost cutting and bean counting sorta reasons I am quite sure.
With SIII Samsung has kept as many parts as possible the same for the first time with their USA versions of the devices. The internals are different in that they are using Qualcomm single chip IC, but that single chip solution is cheaper to build than the multichip stuff they are using on the international version. Yet a lot of the rest of the device outside the chips and boards is all pretty much identical parts and they get save money through volume of same parts and less effort developing the unique parts. All the savings allow them to spend a bit more on this new Qualcomm chip than they would have in the past. Well that and the fact they weren't just buying some baseband chip alone to go along with some other app processor as has happened in previous devices using the VIA telecom stuff.
But yeah, you should see the more similar performance you recall from your samsung feature phone days more than likely.
You are probably correct. And found this as looking to Samsung component costs after theorizing in another post.
Samsung reduces its LTE chip cost by half | Dialed In - CNET Blogs
If the chip was made "cheaper", but not specifically "better" not sure that's a great thing. Could be a process node shift, but could just be other things tweaked for the worse also just to save cost.
Atleast with qualcomm you have a known quantity compared to these VIA Telecom with Samsung LTE IC IP shoehorned sorta abomination. I am not exactly surprised you might see better fringe signal grabbing with the Moto's though. Not sure if that is all Antenna difference or also radio tune differences, but Moto and Nokia have some sorta advantage in these respects. I don't think it's wildly different, but can determine which device is right for you based on small difference in where you hang out. That article is also the first I learned that Samsung's LTE stuff was on the same die as the VIA Telecom CDMA stuff. Guess their willingness to integrate that into one of their own chips might be part of why Samsung went down that road. Saved them from using an extra chip as Qualcomm LTE has been an extra chip until this year.
Yeah, it isn't hard to see. Knowing this does make me a bit uncertain on my next phone. The moto razr hd is a sure hit, but the next nexus if verizon gets it this year of course, could also be a good choice. Either way, being in a rural area, where there are marginal coverage areas, the stronger the reception, the better. The next nexus would have to blow the razr hd maxx out of the water to win me over. like an s4 pro and 2GB ram, or an exynos 5 series chip.
The 2gb ram point just reminded me of a confusing aspect of these new razr's. Even the maxx can't get that???
Sandroidfan
Android Expert
I think 1Gb is still fine. But most new high end phones next year will have 2Gb I guess.
Also I think Moto need to step up on their phone cameras. They didn't say anything on camera performance, features during Razr HD presentation from what I saw. HTC, Samsung had a lot to say on camera when introducing One X, GS3. Though I have no intention to go WP yet, that floating lens with image stabilization on Lumia 920 was very intriguing. They just can't get away with subpar smart-phone camera these days any more.
It's just the fact that it makes the phone feel a bit obsolete before it comes out even. Plus even low end phones like the marauder have the same chipset, albeit clocked lower. The phone will still be a good upgrade to the original razr, but for me at least, phones aren't as powerful as I want just yet, so more power is always better.
Seriously looking forward to a few years from now when even low end phone can do everything the average person needs on a laptop.
Sandroidfan
Android Expert
When I played with GS3, One X and Atrix HD at AT&T store, Atrix HD felt noticeably laggy than other two despite all three having the same S4 chip. I like Moto's new UI being very close to stock ICS. But somehow that doesn't seem to help much in memory or UI speed compared to Sense, Touchwiz that are known to be quite heavy on memory. It might be due to demo video app running but other two had that too.
I will take close look at M when it comes out next week. It will give pretty good idea on reception, screen, camera quality and UI speed assuming HD will be very similar to that. If I like it, I will get HD version later this year. If not, I will hold out for something else to replace my Gnex.
I will take close look at M when it comes out next week. It will give pretty good idea on reception, screen, camera quality and UI speed assuming HD will be very similar to that. If I like it, I will get HD version later this year. If not, I will hold out for something else to replace my Gnex.
2gb SHOULD be enough, but I find it pretty easy, even with 2gb and lots of app switching to ditch the home screen from memory and then have to wait for it to reload, even with 1gb. If that weren't the case I would agree. It's sort of an android issue that has yet to be resolved in reality though. The homescreen interface should be sacred in memory management really and harder to lose and have to wait for a load. Something about how it's put together and allows fancy widgets and such though make it so big they don't want to do that I guess.
Agree 100% on camera. And really Moto has no excuse when Nokia has always been right with Moto on EVERY aspect of hardware(build, reception, voice quality, and all the rest) while also investing a lot in unique camera tech. I had always been a bigger Nokia fan than Moto over the years actually. It was the OG Droid that kinda changed that as Nokia struggled to create a compelling modern smartphone and abandoned modern versions of the Communicator series that I was always a huge fan of. I will consider WM and if Nokia get with intel and make some monster WP/Windows dual use hybrid device that docks or something to bring up full on windows with full legacy app support through an Intel smartphone processor I will be in 100%. Add a unique PureView camera of some sort and I think such a device would be hugely compelling to power users drawn to something like Moto's Lapdock's, but scared away by the lack of usefulness of the docked mode.
tdperry
Well-Known Member
Sitting beside my wife in the living room. Her MAXX shows 83dbm, mine shows 85. Close enough for me.
D
Deleted User
Guest
Sitting beside my wife in the living room. Her MAXX shows 83dbm, mine shows 85. Close enough for me.
Sitting my my bedroom with my wifes Maxx, 3 bars 4G, S3 NO 4G at all.
Some are luck I guess. Not everyone has the same performance with the S3. Quality control or everyone is just at different locations. One thing is for sure, there are very few threads about how bad Moto phones are on signal and they seem to be the standard that everyone compares their phones to.
If I cannot stream pandora on my way to work in all 3G coverage on my S3, but can on my DX, time for a return. And that is what I did.
OfTheDamned
The Friendly Undead
I think that is probably the best observation I have read on the subject.
D
Deleted User
Guest
Funny hu? Think about this...
My S3 has much better signal than my Nokia 820.
My S3 has better signal than my HOX.
My S3 has better radio than my LG.
What is missing???
My xxx has better reception than the my Moto? Where is that thread?
tdperry
Well-Known Member
Few people deny that MOST motorola phones have good radios (but there have been some poor ones also), but the S3 is not as horrible as most people make it. It will be interesting to see what the new RAZRs with an S4 (and Qualcom modem?) do. About the only thing different will be antenna and the software interface (where Motorola usually excels).
I got a used droid razr yesterday, and after testing today, I can say with confidence, the galaxy nexus and razr both get the same signal strength. The nexus is slightly weaker on 3g, but at my work where 3g and 1x drop out, both dropped pretty well. The razr was able to sometimes manage usable signal a bit more than the nexus. Then 4g magically turned on, and both did fine, uploads sucked, well under 1mbps, but downloads were fine. The razr seemed to have a higher max and once in a while showed -105dbm, while normally both it and the nexus showed -114 to -116dbm on 4g. The razr also held the 4g signal better, but everyone knows the nexus has issues with that.
Also at my friend's house where I drop 4g, the razr also dropped 4g. Signal is not weak there. It's around -108 to -114dbm, so definitely not something that should be dropping.
Overall on average the nexus seems to have comparable signal strength, I think it only shows weaker 3g due to the innacurate 3g strength measurements, as my nexus only reports -75, -83, -93, and -100, those are the only 4 signal states I have seen. There may be a stronger one, but it seems directly tied to the bars. At home the razr gets -88 to -90dbm, the nexus normally shows -93 but sometimes hits -83 especially when not being touched, but it also can hit -100 sometimes as well. I take it this is due to the antenna being affected by having a hand near it as some phones are more susceptible to this. 4g strength does not seem to be affected by my hand though, so it may just be an innacuracy with rssi, since rsrp measures aren't hurt by it. I really wish I had a gs3 to test and compare with as well. Just gonna have to make do with the pantech breakout I'm getting monday, it at least has the same chipset, so same modem and radio, should give me an idea how well the qualcomm s4 hardware can hold 4g and how well it does on weaker signals. I'll post my findings when I get them if anyone is interested. The razr is going back to the ebay seller on monday though, because it isn't what I hoped and has a broken headphone port among a few other issues that the seller clearly didn't properly test for.
Also at my friend's house where I drop 4g, the razr also dropped 4g. Signal is not weak there. It's around -108 to -114dbm, so definitely not something that should be dropping.
Overall on average the nexus seems to have comparable signal strength, I think it only shows weaker 3g due to the innacurate 3g strength measurements, as my nexus only reports -75, -83, -93, and -100, those are the only 4 signal states I have seen. There may be a stronger one, but it seems directly tied to the bars. At home the razr gets -88 to -90dbm, the nexus normally shows -93 but sometimes hits -83 especially when not being touched, but it also can hit -100 sometimes as well. I take it this is due to the antenna being affected by having a hand near it as some phones are more susceptible to this. 4g strength does not seem to be affected by my hand though, so it may just be an innacuracy with rssi, since rsrp measures aren't hurt by it. I really wish I had a gs3 to test and compare with as well. Just gonna have to make do with the pantech breakout I'm getting monday, it at least has the same chipset, so same modem and radio, should give me an idea how well the qualcomm s4 hardware can hold 4g and how well it does on weaker signals. I'll post my findings when I get them if anyone is interested. The razr is going back to the ebay seller on monday though, because it isn't what I hoped and has a broken headphone port among a few other issues that the seller clearly didn't properly test for.
Sorry, but each manufacturer has their own db scale when it comes to reception. You can't compare them on signal strength alone.
My S3 consistently gets 3g reception in fringe areas and holds it where my DX couldn't get any thing. I've had the phone long enough to know this is true.
I've also *never* dropped a call on it once which is something I can't claim with any cell I've had since 1988 when all I had then was a Motorola Traveler bag phone hooked up to a whopping 12 volt external battery.
How can they each have their own scale for measuring dbm? Isn't it a scientific value measured the same way by all of them? With 3g it uses rssi and with 4g lte it uses rsrp? That's like saying each thermometer brand has their own way of reporting temperature, and the values when given in celcius could all be different, which is just completely insane.
As for number of bars, that is entirely up to the manufacturer and varies greatly. In my experience, bars vary with them, for instance, the razr has 5 bars and much like my old droid 2 global it jumps around in signal and doesn't seem to go directly proportional to strength. I can get -88dbm on minute and have 5 bars, then have 3 bars the next minute at -82dbm, then have 4 bars at -96dbm. Samsung is much more direct and their dbm value correlate directly with the number of bars.
I dont try to get into the technicalities of it anymore.... All I know is Motorola has the been the least annoying, more reliable as far as reception. This dates back to the E815. Compared to at least one manufacture....the other manufacture always came up short vs. Moto. That includes last year. If I get 4 phones from a manufacture in a spans of 6 years .....no real drop call, phone reception issues...all first phones, no replacements.....and I go thru at least 2 from 2 other manufactures over that time..with at least 1 replacement..I just go by Occams Razor...no pun intended...lol.
Just going by real world use....like places other phones lose the call.....my Moto's never did. Or didnt as much. Data reception has been more reliable, less annoying too....even with all the LTE issues on Verizon and between phones. I know they arent perfect..no phone is.....but they have been good for me.
Nokia is also known for this, too bad their presence isnt as strong in the US anymore. Maybe WP can change that. And maybe....hopefully....they do Android phones in the near future. I think those of us that value reception is a dying breed.
Just going by real world use....like places other phones lose the call.....my Moto's never did. Or didnt as much. Data reception has been more reliable, less annoying too....even with all the LTE issues on Verizon and between phones. I know they arent perfect..no phone is.....but they have been good for me.
Nokia is also known for this, too bad their presence isnt as strong in the US anymore. Maybe WP can change that. And maybe....hopefully....they do Android phones in the near future. I think those of us that value reception is a dying breed.
D
Deleted User
Guest
Haha, he said E815...
I had one. It rocked for reception. That was one of it's claims to fame and why I bought it.
lol.Ya know.....I meant to say for me it started with the E815. Your Moto history pre dates mine by a mile. I hope these phones come out before Halloween.
From a very high-level prospective, I'm having a hard time finding any major flaws with the Maxx HD. I feel like every phone has 1 or 2 signature flaws, but I am seriously pumped for this. Again, very high-level and people have particular tastes, but here are my thoughts:
1. Screen is HD. (OG Razr/Maxx lack)
2. 4.7" screen is on par with largest. (OG Razr, iPhone lack; on par with Nexus, S3, One X)
3. Physical build quality top of the line (Nexus, S3 lack; on par with iPhone)
4. While not being too unwieldy (Some have issues with OG Razr, S3)
5. Battery top of line (Nexus lacks)
6. Moto radio/signal presumably will be top of line (won't get into details of others, but suffice to say this one should be good)
7. Processing power/LTE right up there
8. Latest software
What is this phone's weakness? Camera maybe? To me, it's still thin enough. They basically took everything that was a weakness with the OG Razr (screen, bezel, no ICS) and fixed it, while keeping it's Kevlar/aluminum-typical-Moto-awesome physical build, and throwing the market's biggest battery on there.
I have a Nexus and honestly haven't felt jealous of another phone to date, but this has me smitten.
1. Screen is HD. (OG Razr/Maxx lack)
2. 4.7" screen is on par with largest. (OG Razr, iPhone lack; on par with Nexus, S3, One X)
3. Physical build quality top of the line (Nexus, S3 lack; on par with iPhone)
4. While not being too unwieldy (Some have issues with OG Razr, S3)
5. Battery top of line (Nexus lacks)
6. Moto radio/signal presumably will be top of line (won't get into details of others, but suffice to say this one should be good)
7. Processing power/LTE right up there
8. Latest software
What is this phone's weakness? Camera maybe? To me, it's still thin enough. They basically took everything that was a weakness with the OG Razr (screen, bezel, no ICS) and fixed it, while keeping it's Kevlar/aluminum-typical-Moto-awesome physical build, and throwing the market's biggest battery on there.
I have a Nexus and honestly haven't felt jealous of another phone to date, but this has me smitten.
OfTheDamned
The Friendly Undead
As far as weakness go, I think the camera will be an issue for some. One day, in our lifetime maybe, Moto will put a really great camera in a phone. Unfortunately they just haven't done that yet. I've yet to really consider it an issue because I don't really expect a smartphone to have a camera that will blow my mind. I'm also not one to take photos and try to turn them into wall prints.
Some might say that the screen will be an issue since it isn't a true 4.7". This is mostly an issue that some have with the on screen buttons. Coming from a Nexus, as you are, it shouldn't be an issue at all.
The biggest issue that people are having is the encrypted bootloader. This is a major issue if you are big into flashing ROMs or custom kernels. While you can still flash ROMs with a locked bootloader the customization isn't the same. This is something Moto needs to change, but I don't see it really happening any time soon. If you don't care about flashing new kernels or super custom ROMs like CM10 or AOKP then this doesn't matter. If you are really into changing ROMs and tweaking your phone this might be one to avoid.