Do you believe in God

[bluenova]

How do you know that a lot of other people are doing. I for one was brought up in a church school, was confirmed and served at the altar for many years. I had the Bible lessons and I did the research.

If the Bible is Gods word and is so important for all mankind - I would have expected him to make a Bible in all languages, understandable for all men and all times that does not run the risk of being misinterpreted.

By God's word it means inspired by God it's quite obvious that it was written by man. It's no different than a film maker including things in his film that he has been inspired by in his life.

Again, why take something that was written 1000's of years ago and try to apply todays logic to it? It's not as simple as that.

What connection? You mean how all things react to each other? I can guarantee that not everything is connected, but for the record lets say there is. What evidence do you have that it is your god and not the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or perhaps you have some scientific formula for this god which you could put forward, because currently there isn't one. God does not factor into any scientific study or is the concept and acceptable addition to any theory.

What is this guarantee you have that not everything is connected?

I never said it wasn't the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I also don't believe it's not Allah or Ganesh. As a Progressive Christian to me they are just cultural differences refering to the same thing, the connection that binds us all.

By the way, the above quote also works in line with your theory if you replace (God) with (Invisible super intelligent purple fluff).

You're getting it. They are just words to represent a fundamental believe or faith.

 

[mpw]

...No it's not. Really, go learn Latin and Ancient Greek...

I would've thought that Hebrew would've been the first port of call for bible studies!

The point is that the Church today preaches from the bible, if the bible has been bastardised, then so has any religion that stems from it's erroneous teachings.

...The only way is to come to your own conclusion after your own study and not to just follow the Christian or anti-Christian masses.

Which is a fair point, people should do what they feel is the right thing once they've thought about it, the bible, and almost all organised religions are totally irrelevant; they offer nothing but false hope and lies; which I guess is just comfort to those who don't want the responsibility of thinking for themselves.

 

[aiz4andy]

By God's word it means inspired by God it's quite obvious that it was written by man. It's no different than a film maker including things in his film that he has been inspired by in his life.

Again, why take something that was written 1000's of years ago and try to apply todays logic to it? It's not as simple as that.

Why not? Why can't god give us an OTA update?

What is this guarantee you have that not everything is connected?

I'm not making the claim, I am simply questioning yours so the onus is not on me to stump up the evidence. Any other way would be a Universal Negative.

You're getting it. They are just words to represent a fundamental believe or faith.

I get it. I also get that faith or believe has no place in scientific debate. That special place is reserved for evidence, and I'm afraid that neither faith or belief qualify.

 

[bluenova]

I would've thought that Hebrew would've been the first port of call for bible studies!

ok, a bit nit picky but yes. I didn't include it because the 'love' connection I refer to is mostly from the New Testament and spoken about by Jesus and the first Christians. May as well throw in Aramaic too.

The point is that the Church today preaches from the bible, if the bible has been bastardised, then so has any religion that stems from it's erroneous teachings.

I wouldn't say it's been bastardised, more lost in translation. As mentioned by someone earlier on it's so easy to interoperate in different ways which means a lot of Christians and non-Christians get the wrong idea.

Which is a fair point, people should do what they feel is the right thing once they've thought about it, the bible, and almost all organised religions are totally irrelevant; they offer nothing but false hope and lies; which I guess is just comfort to those who don't want the responsibility of thinking for themselves.

I wouldn't say all organised religions are totally irrelevant. I still consider myself an Anglican Christian (as I was confirmed Anglican) even though my views are very different than the mainstream. I think that a lot of preaching is done in a way that people from all walks of life and level of intelligence can understand and that would be very hard to change when speaking to a wide audience.

I find it invaluable to speak with other Progressive Christians and to discuss faith on a much more in-depth level but I wouldn’t want to be ostracised from the Anglican community because I don’t believe that Adam and Eve were real people and that God is a man who looks down from the skies. Those people who think like that are still a part of my community but just have a simpler way of explaining things and I respect that.

 

[mpw]

...I wouldn't say it's been bastardised, more lost in translation...

Not sure there's any material difference.

...Those people who think like that are still a part of my community but just have a simpler way of explaining things...

Some of those people use 'the word of God' as an excuse to seek to control others; that's the problem I have with religion.

It gives a bunch of people who choose to hate, a reason/excuse to hate that doesn't require them to take responsibility for their actions.

The Church's leaders need to stand up and tell their flock to STFU about things they don't understand; or are you admitting that even the Church's highest, most educated and studied leaders are only capable of the dumbed down version of understanding?

 

[bluenova]

Why not? Why can't god give us an OTA update?

lol, nice one.

I'm not making the claim, I am simply questioning yours so the onus is not on me to stump up the evidence. Any other way would be a Universal Negative.

That's the thing about faith...

I get it. I also get that faith or believe has no place in scientific debate. That special place is reserved for evidence, and I'm afraid that neither faith or belief qualify.

Don't get so hung up on evidence, Einstein didn't. Many scientists believe something without being able to prove it. To me Science and Religion do not have to disagree. I love science and technology but it's doesn't change my fundamental belief and I don't see why it should.

 

[bluenova]

Not sure there's any material difference.

Well to bastardise would suggest to decline in value. I don't believe it has done that but just become harder to see the message.

Some of those people use 'the word of God' as an excuse to seek to control others; that's the problem I have with religion.

It gives a bunch of people who choose to hate, a reason/excuse to hate that doesn't require them to take responsibility for their actions.

So true, unfortunately I'm sure it will always be a problem and makes me sad.

The Church's leaders need to stand up and tell their flock to STFU about things they don't understand; or are you admitting that even the Church's highest, most educated and studied leaders are only capable of the dumbed down version of understanding?

The problem is those people will just reform somewhere else. For instance at the moment the whole thing about Women Bishops in the Anglican church, those that oppose choose to join the Catholics. But that's free will I guess.


I have to sign off now, but I just want to thank mpw and aiz4andy for a good debate. It's been interesting.

 

[thelonewizard]

I believe there has got to be more advanced beings.
Call them aliens.. whatever you wish.

The universe is too big for our planet to be the only anomaly.
For all we know we are the most advanced being in the universe.
I don't know if I would call them 'god' or 'gods'

I think religion was made up to give people something to guide them and as a control medium.
It keeps a large portion of the population in check and under control.

That being said, there is far too much corruption in organized religion to make it legitimate.
My grandparents ran churches, I know the ins and outs of it all being a young kid and getting to listen to church marketing meetings to drum up tithings and membership.

People are sheep... some sheep need religion and use it to make decisions when it suits them.

These are basically my beliefs as well, and they make sense. If people would use their religion to bring themselves guidance and joy, then it would be better. But when they try to spread it and force it onto unwilling people, then the corruption begins. If there weren't Islamic religious extremists, the United States wouldn't be in a war with terrorists, the goverments of the world would be less corrupt, and people would be generally friendlier towards one another. Though, these are just how I view the world.

 

[mpw]

Well to bastardise would suggest to decline in value. I don't believe it has done that but just become harder to see the message...

Surely the value of good teaching (the job of the bible surely) is to get the lesson across; if it's not doing that as it used to at it's inception then surely the value has been significantly diminished?

...The problem is those people will just reform somewhere else...

It's funny, I've likened religion as both a comfort blanket, and as an excuse for people's inherent hatreds; but now I think about it in relation to what you say here, I have to say that when a toddler(surely innocence personified) loses there comfort blanket they normally kick up a fuss, as ONLY that blanket will do... makes you wonder about the innocence of the motives of those who are happy to jump ship looking for a 'better' excuse.

 

[aiz4andy]

I have to sign off now, but I just want to thank mpw and aiz4andy for a good debate. It's been interesting.

You're welcome, and thank you - this has been one of the better ones I have had.

 

[chaz_uk]

Short and sweet: No.

Interesting read nonetheless!

 

[kirbyland1986]

i do believe in god, i dont know why its the feeling i have inside me!

 

[sebby]

Do I believe in man version of GOD ? No

In my personal opinion man has used the idea of GOD for his own benefit and has totally corrupted any good that the belief in a higher power could bring. I have nothing against people who do believe in a GOD and there are times when I do wish I could share that belief, I really do. There just seems some things that don't add up when you think about it and I am the sort of person who wont just take things at face value, I like to understand how and why things happen or works.


Personally I think we are just some alien kids school project and one day when he gets a c- for us we are going to get flushed down the bog.

 

[Zardos]

No, I don't believe in the magical sky wizard.

 

[InstantKarma]

I'm a preacher's kid, and at one point was going to church (voluntarily) three times a week, plus catechism classes.

But eventually it all started to fall apart. Before I completely lost my faith, I had a serious talk with god (lower case on purpose) in which I assured him that I was not Job; if he was testing me, I was going to fail.

Once the blinders came off, it became obvious how little sense the Bible makes. It even starts off badly:

A supposedly omnipotent being creates the entire universe, then creates two humans and installs them in paradise with not a single responsibility and only one rule. When they predictably break the only rule, what does he do? Does he blame himself? Does he forgive them? Does he squish them like bugs and go back to the drawing board?

No, he curses them and all their descendants. Not the most obvious choice for a loving creator.

And now for something completely different, the late great Bill Hicks on dinosaurs (NSFW for language):

YouTube - Bill Hicks - Dinosaurs

 

[fried]

I don't believe in any god. For me to believe in anything requires some evidence. In the case of religion, "evidence" amounts to largely anonymous religious texts written by human beings and what essentially amounts to "lack of a better answer", which isn't remotely close to being good enough. Faith amounts to nothing because it's been shown time and time again how easy it is for humans to delude themselves on all manner of subjects.

 

[Darkeligos]

I was formerly an Atheist, now turning more Agnostic because of one logical reason: if this universe it maintained and ran with the notion that there are an infinite amount of choices and variables; then the existence of a "god" can not be ruled out.

Now this "god" could be an alien race who created and is remotely controlling us. This "god" could be a computer programmer who has made an elaborate "Sims" game for us to experience as well.

We simply don't have those answers yet, but my opinion is that we are from another place in our cosmos. Research has shown that many living organisms can and do live dormant in the items flying through space. We've supposedly found bacteria in Antarctica that has been shown to have come from Mars. It is a real possibility that a planet with living creatures could have collided with another object, ejecting life into space where it may lay dormant until landing on a habitable planet.

This video has 9-10 parts all equaling 1 hour, but it is WELL worth the length:
YouTube - History Channel - Ancient Aliens (2009 Version) - Part 1

 

[fried]

Don't get so hung up on evidence, Einstein didn't. Many scientists believe something without being able to prove it. To me Science and Religion do not have to disagree. I love science and technology but it's doesn't change my fundamental belief and I don't see why it should.

What are some examples of "many scientists" believing something without any evidence at all? Obviously, you can give the example of scientists that also had faith in a god (which for some reason, seems to make religion exempt from the rules we would apply to anything else), but outside of that, can you give some examples?

If I were to accuse you of being a rapist and even though I had no evidence at all, I said "don't get caught up on evidence", what reason would anyone have to believe me? Obviously, that's quite a serious example, but is it more serious than believing you're an immortal that will be forgiven for any wrong doing by your preferred god, when there is absolutely zero reason to believe this? Presumably, if you were up in court for a crime you didn't commit, you would rather the jury rely on evidence rather than anything else.

 

[JQwerty91]

Post comments for why you say yes or no. Feel free to discuss below

Are you referring to Chuck Norris? if so then yeah!!

 

[fried]

I was formerly an Atheist, now turning more Agnostic because of one logical reason: if this universe it maintained and ran with the notion that there are an infinite amount of choices and variables; then the existence of a "god" can not be ruled out.

I think you misunderstand what an atheist is. Atheism is merely lacking belief in any gods. The terms "gnostic" and "agnostic" refer to knowledge or lacking knowledge when talking in terms of theism (or atheism).

The only logical and rational position is to be an agnostic atheist. You lack belief in any god, but don't rule out that one might exist. You can extend that to something like dragons. As you say, the universe is infinite and a dragon may exist even though I haven't seen one, but I have absolutely no reason to believe that one exists.

If you are a gnostic atheist, you are saying "I don't believe in god, because I know that there is no god", but nobody does know and you won't often see an atheist say such a thing. Only some theists would describe themselves as gnostic, but that is merely a product of their delusion in the same way that a mentally ill person that believes they're Horatio Nelson would say "I am Horatio Nelson".

An agnostic is not a "fence sitter" as some may imply. I am perfectly willing to believe in gods and/or dragons, but there is currently zero reason for me (or anyone else) to believe in either, and therefore until I have reason to believe otherwise (and NOBODY currently has reason to believe otherwise, as having religious faith requires you to abandon reason) I shall remain an agnostic atheist.

 

[Darkeligos]

I think you misunderstand what an atheist is. Atheism is merely lacking belief in any gods. The terms "gnostic" and "agnostic" refer to knowledge or lacking knowledge when talking in terms of theism (or atheism).

The only logical and rational position is to be an agnostic atheist. You lack belief in any god, but don't rule out that one might exist. You can extend that to something like dragons. As you say, the universe is infinite and a dragon may exist even though I haven't seen one, but I have absolutely no reason to believe that one exists.

If you are a gnostic atheist, you are saying "I don't believe in god, because I know that there is no god", but nobody does know and you won't often see an atheist say such a thing. Only some theists would describe themselves as gnostic, but that is merely a product of their delusion in the same way that a mentally ill person that believes they're Horatio Nelson would say "I am Horatio Nelson".

An agnostic is not a "fence sitter" as some may imply. I am perfectly willing to believe in gods and/or dragons, but there is currently zero reason for me (or anyone else) to believe in either, and therefore until I have reason to believe otherwise (and NOBODY currently has reason to believe otherwise, as having religious faith requires you to abandon reason) I shall remain an agnostic atheist.

You are correct; but since I haven't met or talked to many people who know the difference between weak and strong atheism I find myself explaining it how I did to help others better understand my standing. Even though agnosticism doesn't actually explain the answer of believing in a god, the term does show your "ehh don't really know" side since nobody seems to be able to pinpoint it's definition.

Weak atheist / agnostic atheist would be the correct term for where I sit.

 

[powerkiter]

Far to many posts to read them all.

I'm a non believer, religion was made up to scare people in to being good and I have also read that god forgives all sins so even if he was real I could still commit the most vile crime including joining in with the catholic priests and give the choir boys a real good buggering and it s ok...

He would forgive me! So no hell for me only heaven lmao.

The amount of contradictions in the bible is amazing and seems like its more confused than scooby doo.

Also if your a believer surely you have to go by the adam & eve thing? So your wife is your blood sister, your committing incest which goes against gods will (don't worry he forgives all). So according to the book the snake was punished by being condemned to slither on its stomach for ever!

How did snakes move before? Did they have legs?

 

[stainlessray]

Sure. They're based on accepted historical evidence.



It's not about being hell bent, or what's good enough. It's about truth and evidence. Just because you want there to be a Heaven, doesn't mean there is. I want to win the lottery, doesn't mean I will.

I've already explained about how cultural indoctrination factors on how you react to situations - and just because you pray, it don't necessarily mean you believe - its called grasping at straws, and you'll be amazed at the crazy things people do out of desperation - praying included.

Praying isn't crazy.... God or no God

 

[IOWA]

Praying isn't crazy.... God or no God

Yeah your right, pray like this:

YouTube - Pray for You - Jaron and The Long Road to Love :: Official Video

 

[aiz4andy]

I was formerly an Atheist, now turning more Agnostic because of one logical reason: if this universe it maintained and ran with the notion that there are an infinite amount of choices and variables; then the existence of a "god" can not be ruled out.

There are not an infinite amount of choices in the universe. Neither is the Universe infinite.

There is a chance that I may have a wart on the end of my nose. Does that mean I have a wart on the end of my nose?

But if you are interested in all that ancient civilisation/alien stuff check out this book