OK, you got me. Praying isn't crazy. But only if you're praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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Do you believe in God
- Thread starter verizyou
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OK, you got me. Praying isn't crazy. But only if you're praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I don't know. While the existence of a deity seems unlikely, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Even the more far-fetched can still be fetched.
It may not be outside the realm of possibility, but is that any reason to believe in one when there is no evidence?
Its not outside the realm of possibility that I can levitate, but while I have no evidence that I can do then I don't believe that I can.
There are a lot of things that aren't outside the realm of possibility which is why we base decisions on evidence. Religion normally sidesteps this decision making process by indoctrinating followers from birth, making the idea of a god plausible because it is the accepted norm.
Its not outside the realm of possibility that I can levitate, but while I have no evidence that I can do then I don't believe that I can.
There are a lot of things that aren't outside the realm of possibility which is why we base decisions on evidence. Religion normally sidesteps this decision making process by indoctrinating followers from birth, making the idea of a god plausible because it is the accepted norm.
It is outside the realm of possibility that you can levitate. We can cut you open, study your insides, or take you to a lap and have you run various test, and you will never be able to make you levitate.
However, we cannot cut open the universe and see what's behind it to make it exist. The existence of the universe is not known.
But if we don't know how we can levitate, I'm not sure cutting me open would prove much. Also curious to know what tests you would run and what you would be looking for.
While not knowing exactly how the universe came into existence, there are theories with supporting evidence. There is no supporting evidence for a God, and neither does a God factor support any of the current scientific theory.
Before you argue the toss on theories, please make sure you understand exactly what a scientific theory is. An example of a theory is the Theory of Gravity. This theory also brings me back to suggesting it is not outside the realm of possibility that I can levitate.
While not knowing exactly how the universe came into existence, there are theories with supporting evidence. There is no supporting evidence for a God, and neither does a God factor support any of the current scientific theory.
Before you argue the toss on theories, please make sure you understand exactly what a scientific theory is. An example of a theory is the Theory of Gravity. This theory also brings me back to suggesting it is not outside the realm of possibility that I can levitate.
mrqs
Android Expert
there's a lot we don't know about human physiology, or about gravity
you claim we can be certain about not being able to levitate, indicating that you believe we have absolute knowledge and understanding of those things
yet you say we can not find out how the universe came to be
how's that any different from any other knowledge?
it's unexplained, not inexplicable
I never said that we would never be able to find out how it came to be. I agree, that it is unexplained.
mrqs
Android Expert
oh, so you meant we can't find out now?
but we can prove that someone can't levitate?
we have a lot of evidence to support the theory that a person can't levitate, but like i said, our understanding of ourselves, gravity and physics as a whole is too limited to rule it out completely
much like aiz4andy argues that we have a lot of evidence to support the theory that god does not exist (or rather no evidence to support the opposite), but our understanding of the universe is too limited to rule it out completely
but we can prove that someone can't levitate?
we have a lot of evidence to support the theory that a person can't levitate, but like i said, our understanding of ourselves, gravity and physics as a whole is too limited to rule it out completely
much like aiz4andy argues that we have a lot of evidence to support the theory that god does not exist (or rather no evidence to support the opposite), but our understanding of the universe is too limited to rule it out completely
stainlessray
Android Enthusiast
Yeah your right, pray like this:
YouTube - Pray for You - Jaron and The Long Road to Love :: Official Video
good one. i will be chuckling about that for a while...
if you don't pray, the terrorists win...
While I think it's great that some people get comfort from religion and faith based organizations do a lot of good. When all is said and done:
Religion is the disease - it's not the cure! Most war & much hate is relgion based - and I don't get the concept of worshipping the messenger instead of living the message (The Golden Rule).
Religion is the disease - it's not the cure! Most war & much hate is relgion based - and I don't get the concept of worshipping the messenger instead of living the message (The Golden Rule).
InstantKarma
Android Expert
Hey, you just gave me an idea for a riposte. "Religion is a placebo."
I like it.
Be careful of who you mention The Golden Rule to, unless you have the time the time and energy to argue with them. Most goofballs will tell you it's a Christian concept.
stainlessray
Android Enthusiast
yeah sure, next you'll be telling me santas reindeer can't fly... screw this .. i'm outta here.
I know what you mean. A born-againer told me the difference between the bible, the torah & the koran is that the 2nd two were written by man.
Wikipedia (for what it's worth) says: "The Golden Rule has a history that long predates the term "Golden Rule" (or "Golden law," as it was called from the 1670s[5]). It was present in certain forms in the philosophies of ancient Babylon, Egypt, India, Greece, Judea, and China."
Personally, I wish it was a little more present in our free-enterprise system
Wikipedia (for what it's worth) says: "The Golden Rule has a history that long predates the term "Golden Rule" (or "Golden law," as it was called from the 1670s[5]). It was present in certain forms in the philosophies of ancient Babylon, Egypt, India, Greece, Judea, and China."
Personally, I wish it was a little more present in our free-enterprise system
powerkiter
Android Expert
The wars and deaths caused by religion are the hardest part for me to understand!
The Prodistents and Catholics in Ireland and Scotland, The Christians going on their rampages around the world killing and torturing those that did not believe in the Christian way yet they stole almost all the things they ritualise from the Pagans of whom there was more than a few dealt a justice.
Look at what happened to the Jews at Hitler's hands and the middle east has been going on for well, since the middle east was invented or so it seems. Suicide bombers also make me laugh, their reward is 16 virgins! WTF I would want 16 dirty sluts so at least I would have a good time in the after life
How funny would it be that "He" was real and when you died you went up to heaven and there at a table are all the gods to ever have a religion based on them and as you walked up to your god he held up a card and as he turned it over the words read...
"BLUFF"
And down you go, to party with the devil...
The Prodistents and Catholics in Ireland and Scotland, The Christians going on their rampages around the world killing and torturing those that did not believe in the Christian way yet they stole almost all the things they ritualise from the Pagans of whom there was more than a few dealt a justice.
Look at what happened to the Jews at Hitler's hands and the middle east has been going on for well, since the middle east was invented or so it seems. Suicide bombers also make me laugh, their reward is 16 virgins! WTF I would want 16 dirty sluts so at least I would have a good time in the after life
How funny would it be that "He" was real and when you died you went up to heaven and there at a table are all the gods to ever have a religion based on them and as you walked up to your god he held up a card and as he turned it over the words read...
"BLUFF"
And down you go, to party with the devil...
stauren1203
Well-Known Member
This makes me very sad. In fact, this whole thread makes me very sad. The Catholic teachings are so far off from what Scripture actually teaches. The book of Galatians is completely about the Grace of God and how our sins can NOT take our salvation from us. SO the whole list here; it doesn't matter. The organized(primarily American) church has become so much about setting up moral standards(which never belong there in the first place. Period[slightly redundant, I know]) Instead of teaching the real truth of the Bible; Which, even for someone who DOES NOT believe, when read in it's entirety, in context all the way through, is an amazing book. I voted yes, I do believe in God, I will go one step further and say I believe in the Trinity, the Bible, Heaven, Hell.... but I am nearly done with organized religion because of the discord it causes and is perfectly demonstrated on this forum here...
Sorry for the rant.
chrisinsocalif
Well-Known Member
Being raised Christian the majority of life, I have no belief in God. There is no evidence in any way to support claims of God(more Abrahamic type God) and i see people using God as a convenient cop out to fill in the informational Gaps. Religion I find worse, it's amazing we live in an informational age and people still believe in stories like the "Great Flood" as an actual event. Thankfully in our educated society, Atheism/agnosticism is on the rise.
I've been raised Christian the majority of my life, and I believe in God. While this is not the proper place for an indepth discussion, I think the belittling of the beliefs of another is uncalled for.
If someone goes out on a limb to share their beliefs with you, it is likely (it should be) because they care about you and what they are taught are consequences of not believing. They would be wrong to keep what they consider liberating news to themselves. If you choose not to believe, just don't - but don't attempt to insult them for caring for you.
If someone goes out on a limb to share their beliefs with you, it is likely (it should be) because they care about you and what they are taught are consequences of not believing. They would be wrong to keep what they consider liberating news to themselves. If you choose not to believe, just don't - but don't attempt to insult them for caring for you.
Actually though, it's equally inconsiderate for believers to try to enlighten me that their faith-based beliefs are more correct than my: "I don't know - & I don't think you do either".
I'm OK with people believing whatever works for them. It's just all the bad stuff that has been (& is being) done in the name of god.
I'm OK with people believing whatever works for them. It's just all the bad stuff that has been (& is being) done in the name of god.
I can certainly see your point. But you have to understand, it's faith (the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen), they have faith that He's there, you have faith that He's not.
If you are approached, it SHOULD be out of genuine concern (because of their faith) and has to be done respectfully. If it is done sincerely (especially by a friend), I hope you would recognize the courage it took and the care they must have to have mustered up that courage (again, I'm talking about those who have respect for you in their approach).
As far as those horrible things that have been done (and are being done) in the name of religion, I'd guess that those speaking to your are not responsible or supportive of those atrocities either. Good religious people should no more be associated with those things. It would be like saying, "You are from California, Charles Manson did his thing in California - Californians are bad".
My basic point is, if one of your friends comes to you and breaches this conversation, their motives would be good.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Have you ever heard of the ten commandments? The bible is the most self contradictory book in existence,
Darkeligos
Well-Known Member
There are an infinite amount of possibilities based on how random our universe is. I assume you've read about the plausibility of multiple dimensions where at any one time your current self could be acting upon ANY decision you could think of. Also, as soon as you think of a decision or choice...that actions is carried out within another universe.
An example of infinite possibilities and variations is:
When you were a kid you broke your arm. You later found out that the bone may never heal correctly. You had to drive across state for a surgery, during which a family member died. This event traumatized you and tormented you through your life and into adulthood. You one day snapped and committed suicide.
This all happened because you broke your arm when you were a kid. Your arm could have been protected if you would have gotten a cold and decided not to go out an play on the swings.
This is the Butterfly Effect.
You may not have a wart on your nose, but if you would have touched that handrail while going down the stairs a few months ago...who knows.
And about the universe not being infinite; who knows quite yet. The WMAP has just taken a picture of the Big Bang, that is all you have to play with in terms of our cosmological timeline. Some say the universe is flat, but again who knows -- it could curve back onto itself or possibly deflate and start again.
bluenova
OK Computer
The bible is not one book, it's a collection of books hence 'Bible', from the Latin biblia or books (Library). The Old Testament, containing the 39 books of Hebrew Scripture, and the New Testament, containing 27 books. These were all written by different people so it's quite understandable that there will be contradiction.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, why do so many believers and non-believers take these writings at face value. They were written over a long period of time in order to teach. In those times it was very normal to teach using stories. You are supposed to take away with you the moral of the story not the story itself. As with any story or teaching you should come to your own conclusion about what you read/heard.
Someone mentioned earlier that they can't believe people still believe in 'The Great Flood'. Although it's very plausible that there was a huge flood (this happens all the time and just happened in Pakistan) there is a moral to the story which you need to discover. In it's basic form it is about our role as stewardess to the earth and the peace and salvation (gratitude) that comes from performing that role but it goes much deeper than that.
As these stories were written so long ago it becomes harder in this day in age to realise the meaning as language and method of teaching has changed so much, especially if you are so determined to find issue with them.
mrqs
Android Expert
it still is, people just don't take the stories of today quite as seriously as they do those written well over a millennium ago for some reason