Do you believe in God

[aiz4andy]

There are an infinite amount of possibilities based on how random our universe is. I assume you've read about the plausibility of multiple dimensions where at any one time your current self could be acting upon ANY decision you could think of. Also, as soon as you think of a decision or choice...that actions is carried out within another universe.

An example of infinite possibilities and variations is:
When you were a kid you broke your arm. You later found out that the bone may never heal correctly. You had to drive across state for a surgery, during which a family member died. This event traumatized you and tormented you through your life and into adulthood. You one day snapped and committed suicide.

This all happened because you broke your arm when you were a kid. Your arm could have been protected if you would have gotten a cold and decided not to go out an play on the swings.

This is the Butterfly Effect.

You may not have a wart on your nose, but if you would have touched that handrail while going down the stairs a few months ago...who knows.

And about the universe not being infinite; who knows quite yet. The WMAP has just taken a picture of the Big Bang, that is all you have to play with in terms of our cosmological timeline. Some say the universe is flat, but again who knows -- it could curve back onto itself or possibly deflate and start again.

Wow. What a mix up you have exhibited between science fiction, chaos theory, quantum mechanics, butterfly effect, probability and chance.

While there is no evidence for multiple dimensions/universes, I can only live in the present - and although there is a possibility of something, it does not mean that it is an inevitability.

 

[aiz4andy]

I've been raised Christian the majority of my life, and I believe in God. While this is not the proper place for an indepth discussion, I think the belittling of the beliefs of another is uncalled for.

If someone goes out on a limb to share their beliefs with you, it is likely (it should be) because they care about you and what they are taught are consequences of not believing. They would be wrong to keep what they consider liberating news to themselves. If you choose not to believe, just don't - but don't attempt to insult them for caring for you.

What you are saying, in picture form:

 

[stainlessray]

What you are saying, in picture form:

that is NOT what he expressed at all. he stated multiple times that "if you are approached about it respectfully" (paraphrasing)

he did not say "it's ok they may bash you over the head (so to speak) but let them, and do nothing in return" nothing of the kind was in the post you quoted.

 

[aiz4andy]

I disagree, the picture represents exactly what they are saying.

ie:
If a religious person believes an atheist is wrong they are more than welcome to tell them about it and that you are going to hell for not believing - however, the atheist should have enough respect not to tell them they're wrong?

To just sit there and be told that unless they accept what they are saying they are going to burn in eternal agony and torment forever and ever until the end of time - and you expect the atheist to not respond and tell them they are talking nonsense?

 

[Darkeligos]

Wow. What a mix up you have exhibited between science fiction, chaos theory, quantum mechanics, butterfly effect, probability and chance.

While there is no evidence for multiple dimensions/universes, I can only live in the present - and although there is a possibility of something, it does not mean that it is an inevitability.

That's what science does; mingle together.

What it all boils down to is that I have yet to find your point in any of your replies to me.

 

[aiz4andy]

What it all boils down to is that I have yet to find your point in any of your replies to me.[/QUOTE]

Based on your posts, that doesn't surprise me.

 

[Roxors]

Yeah i believe, thats all i am gonna say. after this

as for whoever posted this isn't the place for it. Any place is a place to talk about God/ Religion, its just another topic. People shouldn't be scarred just cause of the weight that it holds (like everyone's views and out looks)

 

[stainlessray]

I disagree, the picture represents exactly what they are saying.

ie:
If a religious person believes an atheist is wrong they are more than welcome to tell them about it and that you are going to hell for not believing - however, the atheist should have enough respect not to tell them they're wrong?

To just sit there and be told that unless they accept what they are saying they are going to burn in eternal agony and torment forever and ever until the end of time - and you expect the atheist to not respond and tell them they are talking nonsense?

did you even read the quoted post?

 

[aiz4andy]

Yes, that's how I drew my conclusion.

 

[stainlessray]

Yes, that's how I drew my conclusion.

my simplification of what was said... "Someone may talk to you about it in spite of it being hard to do, because they CARE, so you shouldn't ridicule them."

that's nothing like the picture compared to the statement, at all. it requires a great deal of embellishment to come up with the cartoon, from what i read. it's a flagrant misrepresentation

 

[aiz4andy]

Well, the first hint at what was lying behind the post was using the term "consequences of not believing" - and we all know the consequence of not believing is eternal torture, burning and torment.

Secondly, the words "what they consider liberating news" refer to the tenets they hold, ie - that certain behaviour is deemed sinful - and for that reason they are a sinner, blasphemous, immoral....etc (see above paragraph about roasting for eternity)

My answer to this behaviour is to explain to them exactly how sick and twisted their own beliefs are (don't forget this is EXACTLY the same as what they have just told me about mine), at which point I am told to have respect for their beliefs etc.......

Hope that helps.

 

[InstantKarma]

Well, the first hint at what was lying behind the post was using the term "consequences of not believing" - and we all know the consequence of not believing is eternal torture, burning and torment.

Really blow their minds and ask them where in the New Testament it says non-believers are going to suffer eternal damnation.

It doesn't.

 

[stainlessray]

at what point does that compare to hurling insults? or a bludgeon to the head? that remains a poor analogy to what's being said in the post...

if you were only to state that you believe the poster to be crazy, that would be less insulting to someone who was in point of fact, trying to help you. the whole idea that you have to twist it up, because you are insulted that anyone would dare tell you those things has me befuddled.

i have never been insulted by a Christian for being an atheist. I have been insulted by the occasional atheist who was unaware that i was one.

so he said you can suffer eternal damnation, according to you, you will not anyway. he also says you can be saved. and you can decide you need no saving. where is the insult depicted in the text of that cartoon? where is the tie to the metaphor of whacking the poor defenseless atheist over the head with the cane while hurling insults?

and btw, i have decided, i'm in no need of "help" but thanks anyway.
(that wasn't hard at all, try it)

 

[aiz4andy]

at what point does that compare to hurling insults? or a bludgeon to the head?

- the words "what they consider liberating news" refer to the tenets they hold, ie - that certain behaviour is deemed sinful - and for that reason they are a sinner, blasphemous, immoral....etc

(behaviour in this instance referring to not accepting Jesus as your saviour - this makes you a sinner)

- at no point did I suggest anybody was being bludgeoned, the cartoon is what is known as a visual metaphor.

If you were only to state that you believe the poster to be crazy, that would be less insulting to someone who was in point of fact, trying to help you

Whether they are crazy or trying to help makes no difference to the (point of) fact that what they are saying about me and my lifestyle is insulting and offensive to me. I am perfectly within my rights to return said behaviour - yet this is then regarded as disresepectful.

the whole idea that you have to twist it up, because you are insulted that anyone would dare tell you those things has me befuddled.

What I find insulting is being judged on my (lack of) beliefs.

i have never been insulted by a Christian for being an atheist.

If you are an atheist, in a Christians eyes you are a sinner. They may love you, but unless you accept Jesus, then you are going to hell. You are going to hell because you are a sinner.

I deem this to be insulting.

I have been insulted by the occasional atheist who was unaware that i was one.

Who is the occasional atheist?

so he said you can suffer eternal damnation, according to you, you will not anyway. he also says you can be saved. and you can decide you need no saving. where is the insult depicted in the text of that cartoon?

in his eyes I am a sinner, blasphemer etc - do you really want to split hairs about the use of words that represent the same concept ie, that he is attacking my way of life - using his religion.

where is the tie to the metaphor of whacking the poor defenseless atheist over the head with the cane while hurling insults?

The atheist doesn't have a religious symbol to attack or defend himself with in the cartoon. So he takes the symbol from the Christian and neutralises it. This is the metaphor.

 

[JQwerty91]

I'm catholic but I totally disagree on what those preachers say to people who are "non beleivers". Seriously they are humans like us, and shouldnt have the right to say who goes to Hell or not. OH OH and have you guys seen this?? This is the perfect way to deal with radical preachers ;]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwyZ0ji1GRU

 

[Weazol]

We all believe what we believe and it is going to be pretty hard for anyone on an internet forum to change that.

If you believe in God then there is nothing wrong with that for you.
If you do not believe in God then there is nothing wrong with that for you.
In the end, what you choose to believe is all on you.

Nobody should be putting anyone else down or attacking them about their beliefs.

tell that to Israel and Palestine

 

[smacky]

tell that to Israel and Palestine

Turns out Jews aren't so Jewish when you give them guns.

:runs:

I keed, I keed.

 

[syst3merror]

Simple answer: NO!

 

[Rota]

I was raised religious, and began to question it around the time in grade school where we were learning about Greek and Roman mythology. I thought, if we can think that their religious beliefs are so far-fetched, than why is ours any different?

From that moment on, I felt like a burden was lifted off my shoulders and I've been a very happy atheist ever since.

Things like this reaffirm that I am perfectly happy putting my "faith" behind science rather than religious lunacy:

YouTube - Creationism Museum Documentary

 

[Darkeligos]

Based on your posts, that doesn't surprise me.

That's exactly what I'm saying. You've got nothing to say to prove any point. Your first reply was your own beliefs on whether there were infinite possibilities, which shows you probably just started high school in some place like Kentucky. Along with that you have a theoretical question that never had any true relevance on the subject because you can't seem to fully grasp the concept.

I think I see your problem. You think that if there are infinite possibilities then they must happen all at once in one place. I don't know what ridiculous book you read that from but you should probably return it to the library, girlfriend.

Also it appears you post in this thread, acting most likely like you do in real life: always trollin' for an argument so that you can satisfy your ego. It's okay to not reply if you don't know about the topic at hand; we all have to start somewhere.

 

[Frisco]

tell that to Israel and Palestine

There may be a generality embedded in the OTD post you quoted, but I believe that 90% of her, "nobody should be ... attacking ... about beliefs" is referring to the participants in this forum.

I also believe you know that.

 

[aiz4andy]

That's exactly what I'm saying. You've got nothing to say to prove any point. Your first reply was your own beliefs on whether there were infinite possibilities, which shows you probably just started high school in some place like Kentucky. Along with that you have a theoretical question that never had any true relevance on the subject because you can't seem to fully grasp the concept.

I think I see your problem. You think that if there are infinite possibilities then they must happen all at once in one place. I don't know what ridiculous book you read that from but you should probably return it to the library, girlfriend.

Also it appears you post in this thread, acting most likely like you do in real life: always trollin' for an argument so that you can satisfy your ego. It's okay to not reply if you don't know about the topic at hand; we all have to start somewhere.

Wrong on the character assessment. I live in the UK and left school many years ago.

You're halfway there on the next bit. Yes, this is what I am saying and the reason it corresponds with the argument is because of your own reasoning regarding an omnipotent being.

As for books from the library, I'd sooner take those than the whacko, sci-fi theory, bottom shelf magazines you seem to get your parallel-dimension ideas from.

I'm not trolling for an argument, but this debate is one I am very interested in and passionate about, so when someone comes out with the notion that we live in an infinite universe with infinite possibilities, and therefore anything you can possibly imagine must be true as nothing is impossible - it kind of spoils the serious debate.

 

[OfTheDamned]

There may be a generality embedded in the OTD post you quoted, but I believe that 90% of her, "nobody should be ... attacking ... about beliefs" is referring to the participants in this forum.

I also believe you know that.

I believe that people will try to argue about anything.

 

[stainlessray]

- the words "what they consider liberating news" refer to the tenets they hold, ie - that certain behaviour is deemed sinful - and for that reason they are a sinner, blasphemous, immoral....etc

(behaviour in this instance referring to not accepting Jesus as your saviour - this makes you a sinner)

- at no point did I suggest anybody was being bludgeoned, the cartoon is what is known as a visual metaphor.



Whether they are crazy or trying to help makes no difference to the (point of) fact that what they are saying about me and my lifestyle is insulting and offensive to me. I am perfectly within my rights to return said behaviour - yet this is then regarded as disresepectful.



What I find insulting is being judged on my (lack of) beliefs.



If you are an atheist, in a Christians eyes you are a sinner. They may love you, but unless you accept Jesus, then you are going to hell. You are going to hell because you are a sinner.

I deem this to be insulting.



Who is the occasional atheist?



in his eyes I am a sinner, blasphemer etc - do you really want to split hairs about the use of words that represent the same concept ie, that he is attacking my way of life - using his religion.



The atheist doesn't have a religious symbol to attack or defend himself with in the cartoon. So he takes the symbol from the Christian and neutralises it. This is the metaphor.

If hell doesn't exist why would going to it be an insult?

when has anyone called you a blasphemer? More specifically, when did the poster say it? (that was the point)



" - at no point did I suggest anybody was being bludgeoned, the cartoon is what is known as a visual metaphor."

thanks, but maybe you noticed, I referred to it as a analogy... who is METAPHORICALLY beating you over the head? did the poster? or maybe you feel that way at Christmas time?

the fact that you feel you are being judged, as opposed to taking and disregarding religious tenets as not being for you suggests that you are insecure in your lack of belief.

in this era, there are very few people openly trying to persuade anyone of these things. the word paranoia comes to mind.

putting that all aside, I believe there is a misrepresentation of people of faith perpetuated by cartoons like that one. I know many religious people, they are simply not like that. not even among their own children.

you would have people believe you are being victimized by the religious establishment, to what end? who is your METAPHORIC assailant? I suggest you take it up with them, and not stereotype *all* people of faith for it.

 

[Slug]

Let's not get into arguments about what is "right" or "wrong". Discuss/debate personal philosophies all you wish, but try to avoid dismissing or demeaning opposing viewpoints. There's no "correct answer" to this one....

I don't believe in "God", but I do believe in other peoples'. I also tend to follow a broadly Christian morality e.g. do unto others, turn the other cheek etc but I swear like a trooper in unguarded moments and have committed a fair number of "sins" in my time. My parents are both active Christians (dad has been a church elder for 40+ years) and while I don't share their faith I can respect it and recognise that to them it is important. Likewise for those of other belief systems. To quote the sign-off line of the late great Irish comedian Dave Allen (himself a devout practicing Catholic throughout his life), "May your god go with you!"