copestag
Android Expert
The charge which Obama was accused of by the UN today for drone strikes in Pakistan
are you therefore calling for his immediate removal from office???
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free health care
- Thread starter sntaylor
- Start date
The charge which Obama was accused of by the UN today for drone strikes in Pakistan
are you therefore calling for his immediate removal from office???
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
No, SiempreTuna would never call for the removal of a Democrat. Now a Republican on the other hand. Perhaps obama should face a war crimes tribunal.
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
Err .. that's EXACTLY how I was using it and how the research I quoted was using it.
Millions is way more than a stretch! My entire point is that nothing "stretches" from 40 to anywhere close to millions!
Since my point appears to have eluded you, let me spell it out: the entire voter fraud argument is a myth. All the evidence we have shows it to be a total crock.
No there weren't. See my original point and follow the link: the reseach found that there were 40 indictements.
There is no evidence for any more.
So .. that doubt is actually overwhelming.
Indicted means that there was enough evidence to take 40 people to trial.
If there had been evidence of more crimes, there would have been more indictments.
I don't know for sure and nor does anyone else.
I did however, quote the best evidence available and that is that there were 40 indicted cases across several federal elections.
That means that EVIDENCE says widespread voter fraud is a MYTH.
Really: get over it. Widespread voter fraud simply hasn't happened. No ifs or buts about it.
That sounds like you think the KKK is a thing of the past .. and I wonder which way they vote now?
I believe in law and order. I've argued strongly against drone stikes in several places on this forum. There is undeniably a strong case for a war crimes tribunal.
Or there would be if the US didn't refuse to be covered by international law. Which it does.
If the US didn't operate outside international law, the argument would be even stronger for Bush, not just for the reasons I listed above: he also started the drone strike campaign. Not his fault he didn't have enough drones to make much of a difference ..
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
Perhaps all of the evidence you have. I remember back in 2008 reading about it in the news. Again, just because forty were indicted does NOT mean that there were more than forty fraudulent votes, nor that only forty were caught.
Again, you misquoted me. I have already told you once that if you are going to quote me, do so correctly. My quote read
Gmash
Extreme Android User
Back to health care, interesting editorial:
USA TODAY
In 2010, Medicare spent more than $14 billion on oxygen devices, mobility
scooters, diabetes test strips and other "durable medical equipment" and supplies
that patients use at home. For taxpayers, and for beneficiaries with a 20% co-
pay, that was about $5 billion too much.
Everyone overpaid because for years, Medicare bought or rented things like this
on a fee schedule set by Congress, for prices that had nothing to do with normal
market competition.
Now a competitive bidding process is starting to produce big savings and has the
potential to cut costs even more — unless the industry and its allies in Congress
manage to derail it.
The bidding program, passed in 2003, finally went into effect in nine metro areas
in 2011. It will expand to 91 more this summer. The bids confirm that the old
system wasted shocking amounts of money, and still wastes it in areas where
bidding hasn't yet begun.
Not surprisingly, an industry that's seeing its profit margins fall dramatically is
fighting hard to change or roll back the bidding program. The American
Association for Homecare, the industry's trade group, and large equipment
providers such as the VGM Group have mounted an assault that combines
political contributions, lobbying and a broad effort to discredit the way Medicare
has run its bidding system.
But a move in the House
to dump and overhaul the bid process has almost 200 co-sponsors and is led by
Tea Party favorites such as Reps. Tom Price, R-Ga., and Renee Ellmers, R-N.C.,
both of whom have suppliers in their districts.
USA TODAY
In 2010, Medicare spent more than $14 billion on oxygen devices, mobility
scooters, diabetes test strips and other "durable medical equipment" and supplies
that patients use at home. For taxpayers, and for beneficiaries with a 20% co-
pay, that was about $5 billion too much.
Everyone overpaid because for years, Medicare bought or rented things like this
on a fee schedule set by Congress, for prices that had nothing to do with normal
market competition.
Now a competitive bidding process is starting to produce big savings and has the
potential to cut costs even more — unless the industry and its allies in Congress
manage to derail it.
The bidding program, passed in 2003, finally went into effect in nine metro areas
in 2011. It will expand to 91 more this summer. The bids confirm that the old
system wasted shocking amounts of money, and still wastes it in areas where
bidding hasn't yet begun.
Not surprisingly, an industry that's seeing its profit margins fall dramatically is
fighting hard to change or roll back the bidding program. The American
Association for Homecare, the industry's trade group, and large equipment
providers such as the VGM Group have mounted an assault that combines
political contributions, lobbying and a broad effort to discredit the way Medicare
has run its bidding system.
But a move in the House
to dump and overhaul the bid process has almost 200 co-sponsors and is led by
Tea Party favorites such as Reps. Tom Price, R-Ga., and Renee Ellmers, R-N.C.,
both of whom have suppliers in their districts.
copestag
Android Expert
I havent read the full bill yet to know what changes its trying to make...... so I can only base my comments on yours and the article which most likely distorts the truth a bit
talking a bit out of both sides of the mouth there?
now youre arguing in favor of free market and less governtment interference?
or did you neglect to read the article and only post it because it condemns republicans?
everything in that article is the exact opposite of everything youve argued for in regards to government controlled healthcare
I will read the actual bill after work and add more if needed........ something Im sure the author of the article didnt bother to do...... since he didnt even bother to cite the bill for anyone else to read
Bill Summary & Status - 112th Congress (2011 - 2012) - H.R.6490 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
talking a bit out of both sides of the mouth there?
now youre arguing in favor of free market and less governtment interference?
or did you neglect to read the article and only post it because it condemns republicans?
everything in that article is the exact opposite of everything youve argued for in regards to government controlled healthcare
I will read the actual bill after work and add more if needed........ something Im sure the author of the article didnt bother to do...... since he didnt even bother to cite the bill for anyone else to read
Bill Summary & Status - 112th Congress (2011 - 2012) - H.R.6490 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Gmash
Extreme Android User
I don't march to any party line, and I'm in favor of anything that helps keep costs down. I'm not for no bid contracts in any case. You have to admit it's ironic for the tea partiers to suddenly have an issue with saving money when it affects their district. Didn't take long for the radicals to sell out their values and become like every other "mainstream" politician lol. Obama/Romneycare isn't government run health care anyway. It's a handout to the insurance companies that the republicans would be proud of if they had passed it.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
I do at least have evidence, from a reputable source ..
The point I spelled out more than once is that it is simply not credible to say that when detailed research by a reputable body (see the original link) reveals only 40 cases across several elections over several years, that voter fraud is widespread.
It isn't. That's what the facts tell us.
Except that's what the EVIDENCE says. It's not my opinion. It's not the rantings of some dillusional right wing talks show host, it's validated research.
Yeah, I notice you haven't produced one iota of actual evidence to back your claims. Maybe because there isn't any. You'll notice the GOP has singularly failed to produce any and I'm guessing they have significantly greater resources than you.
Before getting into IT I went to law school - does that count?
Given they were over trying to set up a UK branch within the last 5 years, I'd say yes.
If you have evidence for that assertion, I'm happy to be corrected .. but I'm guessing there is none ..
Not sure what you're objecting to here.
I made a comment about the fact the US has refused to join the international war crimes tribunal (see the link for EVIDENCE) - nothing to do with how the military is run.
I made a comment about drone strikes being illegal, a view shared by UN terrorism officials (again, see the link) but once again, that's nothing to do with how the military is run.
Love to reply, not sure what you'd like me to reply to ..
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
Don't have too much to do right at the minute - I'm about 2 months ahead of schedule on a 3 month project
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Don't have too much to do right at the minute - I'm about 2 months ahead of schedule on a 3 month project
Typical lazy pleb eh?
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
Guilty as charged, m'lud
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Might not count. Did you graduate from the law school and pass the bar?
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
That is true. However, the point that I am trying to make is that only forty people were indicted for voter fraud between 2002 and 2005. This does not mean that only forty people committed voter fraud, just that forty people were indicted.
Not really. We were discussing the 2008 and 2012 elections. Your information is for 2002 through 2005, thus making it not applicable.
Yes, between 2002 and 2005 per your link. The discussion was concerning obama’s election. Props on the red herring by the way. And as proof, your original quote and link are below.
Again, we were discussing the voter fraud issues during the two obama elections. If you’re going to post something calling chrlswltrs and others wrong, at least make sure that your dates are correct. However, I do give you props on the use of red herring.
Except your so called research is not applicable. In case you forgot, we were talking about the voter fraud issues during the 2008 and 2012 elections. The evidence is for between 2002 and 2005. Perhaps you should post some more of your leftist “evidence” so that I can, again, prove you wrong.
Once I return from travel on Friday I will do just that.
We shall see. Also, I will limit my research to the dates in question, much unlike you.
I’m not sure…did they teach you that in order to be indicted you must first be caught? I have driven “drunk” before, but without getting caught, I was neither charged nor indicted (yes, there is a difference).
My apologies, I meant to add sarcasm tags to my post. I apologize that you assumed that I was uneducated enough to think that the Ku Klux Klan was gone. Hell, when I went to my in-laws for Christmas they were having a dinner-type event in the local church. Sort of going off topic, why are the black panthers more acceptable than the Ku Klux Klan? I have always wondered that myself…
The Senator’s name escapes me at the present, but as soon as I finish this reply, I will find it.
Edited to add: The Senator was Robert Byrd (D-WV). Another prominent member was David Duke, who ran for president in the Democrat primaries in 1988. If you don’t believe me, more information can be found here. This link shows that the “KKK’s 1st targets were Republicans.” Lastly, this link shows that the Ku Klux Klan was the “terrorist arm of the Democrat Party.”
Basically that if the US isn’t covered under the International Criminal Court, that what they (and you) think does not apply.
He must have missed the class where they taught that in order to be indicted, you must first be caught…just saying!
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
Just saw this story. Made very interesting reading.
One of the many arguments made against Obamacare by critics was that it would inevitably cause the rate of health care cost rises to vastly increase. This argument was, in fact behind all of the scare mongering over out of control spending and ever increasing deficits.
Seems that, contrary to the critics' claims, the rate of cost rises has actually decreased. And shows every sign of continuing to decrease. And this, apparently makes a nonsense of all the wild spending and out-of-control deficit predictions, too.
Even more ironically, it is at least arguable that some of the decrease in the rate of cost rises is actually due to Obamacare.
Amazing how different actual facts and data can be from the wild conjecture that precedes them ..
One of the many arguments made against Obamacare by critics was that it would inevitably cause the rate of health care cost rises to vastly increase. This argument was, in fact behind all of the scare mongering over out of control spending and ever increasing deficits.
Seems that, contrary to the critics' claims, the rate of cost rises has actually decreased. And shows every sign of continuing to decrease. And this, apparently makes a nonsense of all the wild spending and out-of-control deficit predictions, too.
Even more ironically, it is at least arguable that some of the decrease in the rate of cost rises is actually due to Obamacare.
Amazing how different actual facts and data can be from the wild conjecture that precedes them ..
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Here you can download the entire 2407 page bill if you like:
http://obamacare.net/wp-content/upl...Protection-and-Affordable-Care-Act-hr3590.pdf
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
Is that even legal?!?!
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
So if healthcare costs are not rising, why do I pay more to go to the doctor now then I did a year ago? Again, it seems you're wrong.
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
I'm going to bookmark that link. Thanks! Has anyone read it yet?
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
You could be correct. It's been a while since I dealt with this type of things.
saptech
Android Expert
There have always been cases of "guilty until proven innocent"...
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
Err .. no.
What I said is the rate of increase - the health care inflation rate - has gone down, not gone negative. Prices are still going up, just much more slowly than the scaremongers predicted.
That means that when you go to the doctor next year, it will still cost more, but the percentage increase will be much lower than it was between this year and last - and the year before and the year before that etc.
The point is that the scaremongers spent the last few years insisting that health care inflation rate would inevitably be much, much higher because of Obamacare but it's actually lower. They then used this - completely wrong - prediction as the basis for many more scary predictions about the affect of Obamacare on government spending. Those predictions are therefore also completely wrong.
Basically, this undermines the entire economic argument against Obamacare.