mrqs
Android Expert
there's a lot of languages that don't separate between them - there's just 1 word for both male and female (ie. "h
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God or No God?
- Thread starter Socrat3s
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there's a lot of languages that don't separate between them - there's just 1 word for both male and female (ie. "h
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
Yes, the god of gods, the One God concept does imply and even state in some faiths that this being is not only separate from the universe, but actually made it out of nothing.. well, made it out of something that we humans perceive as "had to be nothing."
Carl Sagan used to say that no god is needed, the universe is just the way it is, adding a god is just adding some artificial entity that's not provable at all.
Carl Sagan used to say that no god is needed, the universe is just the way it is, adding a god is just adding some artificial entity that's not provable at all.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
I would argue that just because something is not provable doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
M
Member243850
Guest
+ 1
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
That's been one of my points for quite some time.
I remember it first occurring to me when I couldn't find my bicycle after school one day when I was in the 4th grade. I just knew it existed, but I would never have been able to prove it if asked to do so.
As you can see from my avatar pic, I found it and my bow tie.
lol ... 
, etc....
Stuntman
Android Expert
Why is it that people bring up God as the answer to a question to which we do not know the answer? I don't know where everything came from, but it's quite a stretch to conclude some magical being decided to create everything that I can observe. If that is truely the correct answer, then the next question would be, "Where did that being come from?"
Why can't people just accept the fact that they do not know everything?
Learned this from a book (damned books!)
Anyways... when you shut the door on the fridge, how do you know the food is still there? You cant see it, but you just KNOW its there... many people have this feeling. You cant prove everything (who says your not the only human on this forum and were all bots), sometimes people just stick with what they feel.
Hence, god doesnt have to be made of something, people only have to feel he/she/it/we is there.
(Please, I beg of you, I used philosophy to make this... do not fight me with philosophy to the point of killing us all)
For the no god belivers:
"All living creatures place their faith in someone more powerful than them and they cannot survive unless they blindly follow that person. The recipient of that faith then seeks out someone in an even higher position in order to escape from the pressure. That person then seeks out someone even more powerful that he must put his faith in. In this way all kings are born and in this way all Gods are born." -Aizen
Anyways... when you shut the door on the fridge, how do you know the food is still there? You cant see it, but you just KNOW its there... many people have this feeling. You cant prove everything (who says your not the only human on this forum and were all bots), sometimes people just stick with what they feel.
Hence, god doesnt have to be made of something, people only have to feel he/she/it/we is there.
(Please, I beg of you, I used philosophy to make this... do not fight me with philosophy to the point of killing us all)
For the no god belivers:
"All living creatures place their faith in someone more powerful than them and they cannot survive unless they blindly follow that person. The recipient of that faith then seeks out someone in an even higher position in order to escape from the pressure. That person then seeks out someone even more powerful that he must put his faith in. In this way all kings are born and in this way all Gods are born." -Aizen
tylerdurdin
Android Enthusiast
The professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did".
The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.
Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " "Of course" answered the professor.
The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exists?"
The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? ...Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"
The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."
"And, does Dark exist?", he continued. The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."
Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."
The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."
After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.
Yeah this proves nothing...but its cool.
The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.
Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " "Of course" answered the professor.
The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exists?"
The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? ...Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"
The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."
"And, does Dark exist?", he continued. The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."
Finally, the student asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."
The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."
After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.
Yeah this proves nothing...but its cool.
damewolf13
live~laugh~love
Well, if we accept that we don't have all the answers, can we then agree that it is acceptable to not know where "that being" came from?
M
Member243850
Guest
Einstein Proves God Exists - Urban Legends
I loved that story!!!
It was very clever,
Thanks for reminding me!
M
Member243850
Guest
Please understand, I never said once that I know the answer:
And then this:
But regardless and in any event... the real big question and to me and waaay more improtant question is of the matter:
Why.... waste.... your.... precious... time???
Either way you cannot prove there is a God but at the same exact time you cannot prove there isn't a god
I say what ever makes you happy then go for it because being unhappy is just not smart.
If you believe there isn't a God...and it makes you happier good for you.
If you believe there is a God ...and it makes you happier then good for you.
But once again...
Why waste all that precious time???
That is really insane me.
The clock is ticking
Use your it wisely
Please understand I am not attacking you just backing up what I said and the facts.
And I never ever said I know there is a God / Gods
And I really do not know everything
drdoom
Android Expert
Funny, but is just a debate over the definition and origin of a word. It's 8 in the morning, and I probably missed something; but I think that story could continue much like this:
"Does God exist?"
"Of course!"
"Sir, God does not exist. It is a term which man has created to explain seeming unnatural phenomena and other things he does not currently understand."
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
The "cold" argument is interesting, and one that is put forth by Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of "Christian Science," a protestant faith.
She states, in part, that "evil" does not really exist anymore than "dark," both merely being the absence of something real rather than an entity in themselves: "dark is not a thing, therefor is nothing," and "evil is not a thing, therefor is nothing," and "we need only open our eyes to see the light, or let them remain closed and stumble around in nothing."
She states, in part, that "evil" does not really exist anymore than "dark," both merely being the absence of something real rather than an entity in themselves: "dark is not a thing, therefor is nothing," and "evil is not a thing, therefor is nothing," and "we need only open our eyes to see the light, or let them remain closed and stumble around in nothing."
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
You cannot definitively say, "God does not exist" any more than you can say, "God does exist." Saying, "God does not exist. He's just something people made up." is exactly the same as saying "God exists. He lives in my heart and has changed my life and this proves it." You're saying the exact same thing either way yet for atheists this argument is rock solid and the Christians making the same argument is fundamentally flawed. Logically, they're the same argument.
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
Absolutely. ^
Like many polarized issues, the opposite ends converge at the point of faith.
M
Member243850
Guest
mrqs
Android Expert
but if god is both benevolent and omnipotent, why is there an absence of god's presence in the heart of anyone?
does he not love everyone equally? why is it that so many are "left stumbling in the dark"?
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
Well, the (theological) theory is, when He installed free will into humans, He left it up to us to recognize Him or not to as we come upon Him in our hearts during our life time.
mrqs
Android Expert
i know, i was just pointing out that the metaphor, while clever, isn't really accurate
also, this definition of evil still leaves out all of the suffering caused by anything other than people, such as natural disasters and accidents - if the hypothetical professor used the word "suffering" instead of "evil", what would the student have said then?
that sadness is the lack of happiness?
pain is the lack of... not being in pain?
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
Priests in some faiths explain human suffering in different ways, with quite a range of "blame," including the "karma" one of basically blaming the victims.
The Islamic view is that it's just up to God to do whatever He wants whenever He wants, and for us mere humans to question "why me" or just "why" at all is absurd.
Some people of all faiths have a view that I happen to agree with, that is no matter what the reasons for those things happening are, it's an opportunity for us to do our best to help the suffering ones.
The Islamic view is that it's just up to God to do whatever He wants whenever He wants, and for us mere humans to question "why me" or just "why" at all is absurd.
Some people of all faiths have a view that I happen to agree with, that is no matter what the reasons for those things happening are, it's an opportunity for us to do our best to help the suffering ones.
mrqs
Android Expert
that doesn't have anything to do with a belief (or lack thereof) of god tho', that's just empathy
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
I went off topic, kind of segued off of the "where does evil come from" notion, in that no matter where it comes from or even if we see suffering as evil, it's a chance for us to do our best (I fail miserably) to help. 
The OP's query "god or no god?" is impossible to discuss without supportive elaboration. Perhaps a simple "god - yes/god-no" poll would have been better.
The OP's query "god or no god?" is impossible to discuss without supportive elaboration. Perhaps a simple "god - yes/god-no" poll would have been better.
mrqs
Android Expert
i don't really see the point in that - i don't care what percentage of the android forums visitors believe in a god, but i find the discussion interesting
and i agree with the elaboration part
drdoom
Android Expert
My point was that you could just take that argument, which is used to support the idea of a God, and keep going in order to disprove God using the same logic. I was in no way trying to use that example to disprove God since I think it is a poor argument from the beginning.
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
"..that's just empathy." Some argue that empathy by any name has its origins with God. Those who argue against that as not needed, talk about survival of the herd, etc.
What is the importance, at the most basic level, of survival? Why are things trying so hard to live, whether their efforts are in a misguided way (war, etc) or not, the goal is to not die, not disintegrate.
Something in you wants you to live. The "god or not god" question might help with that. If there is none, then we have to look at the universe, it's structure, atoms etc and find a reason that suits us as to this urge to remain animate and viable rather than just cold dust or scattered atoms.
I don't like to make up my mind about those things in either direction, very much. But I do know one thing: whatever is the mechanism that causes inanimate matter to become animate and eventual thinking matter, I'm in awe of it.
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