God?

[wubbie075]

I see no need for that fight. If a biology class has a syllabus containing "creation theory" along with "not created" theory, so what?

OK, let's assume for the sake of argument that I am an educational administrator with the authority to unilaterally impose a change in the curriculum of the entire country in any way I see fit.

If I announced a curriculum mandate that science teachers must teach the creation theories of five non-judeochristian religions along with the “not created” theory, would you still say “so what?”

Kids can spot b.s. a mile away, and by the time they're past about the 5th grade they know how to separate out teacher beliefs from "just another class" and its cold hard facts.

This is true. It’s illustrated very well by the correlation between a person's highest level of education acheived and how likely they are to be non-religious.

Our high school wrestling coach prays with the athletes all the time. And yet only a few of those kids have those beliefs, the rest put up with it as another bonding opportunity at the moment and then go about their day with their own belief systems or lack thereof unfettered and intact.

Would you still think it was completely benign if this wrestling coach was a satan worshiper?

 

[wubbie075]

I don't believe that God sends anyone to Hell. I believe that people freely choose to go there, whether out of ignorance or what have you.

If you saw your mother/father/sister/brother/daughter/son choosing to walk over the edge of the grand canyon, would you run over and stop them or say "oh well, free will and all that..."

 

[wubbie075]

Slavery, at the time, was a voluntary institution. People sold themselves into slavery. So, it's not exactly the way you think of slavery USA style.

Doesn't sound very voluntary to me..

1 Kings 9:21 - their descendants who were left after them in the land, whom the people of Israel were unable to destroy utterly--these Solomon made a forced levy of slaves, and so they are to this day

2 Chronicles 28:10 - And now you intend to subjugate the people of Judah and Jerusalem, male and female, as your slaves. Have you not sins of your own against the LORD your God?

Nehemiah 5:5 - Now our flesh is as the flesh of our brethren, our children are as their children; yet we are forcing our sons and our daughters to be slaves, and some of our daughters have already been enslaved; but it is not in our power to help it, for other men have our fields and our vineyards."

Isaiah 14:2 - And the peoples will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them in the LORD's land as male and female slaves;

Jeremiah 34:11 - But afterward they turned around and took back the male and female slaves they had set free, and brought them into subjection as slaves.

 

[HalfFrozen]

Discuss: Why won't god heal Amputees?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Discuss: Why won't god heal Amputees?

Already been discussed 2-3 pages back. Other posters said a lot of great things about it. I honestly have nothing to add.

It makes me sad that people think all Christians are evil. In my mind, it's the same as saying that all Muslims are terrorists.

 

[HalfFrozen]

Already been discussed 2-3 pages back. Other posters said a lot of great things about it. I honestly have nothing to add.

It makes me sad that people think all Christians are evil. In my mind, it's the same as saying that all Muslims are terrorists.

I think most Christians think that last part of your post more then anybody.(In America that is)

 

[byteware]

Slavery is slavery.

Only if you care more about the Bible being wrong than facts.

Slavery has NOT been the same throughout history. The Slavery that we know in America has not been the traditional slavery that has occurred throughout history.

 

[HalfFrozen]

Only if you care more about the Bible being wrong than facts.

Slavery has NOT been the same throughout history. The Slavery that we know in America has not been the traditional slavery that has occurred throughout history.

The kind of slavery I am thinking of is.. Slavery.

Slavery -
noun
1.
the condition of a slave; bondage.
2.
the keeping of slaves as a practice or institution.
3.
a state of subjection like that of a slave: He was kept in slavery by drugs.
4.
severe toil; drudgery.

-n
1. the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune
2. the subjection of a person to another person, esp in being forced into work
3. the condition of being subject to some influence or habit
4. work done in harsh conditions for low pay


edit:

Well since I know nothing about Slavery back in the day, please, refresh me what exactly has changed between then and now? And also, what year it was when slavery 'became different' then what it is now?

 

[byteware]

Dont forget the Catholic priests molesting lil boys. I will agree religion is showing its evil side more and more. How many times has a preacher swindled his church out of its money? Look at oral roberts he said if he didnt make his goal of x amount of millions that god would kill him. Benny Hinn while on the road healing people . He had his staff take the money out of the prayer request envelopes and throw them under the bleachers.

There has been nothing but scandal and scandal in the religious sector. Heck the Pope is a former Hitler youth. Also he help cover up many priests that molested boys.

So please she me the good that religion has done recently?

Hurricane Katrina. First on site help was evangelical Christians.

They were there within 3 hours, and the government was there in about 3 days.

Doesn't sound very voluntary to me..

I'm not going to go scripture by scripture, since you haven't even read to determine what the sentences are saying.

In Nehemiah, the Israelites were slaves. They were looking for their freedom.

Some of these are reprimands for making slaves in this manner.

I mean, if you are simply going to look for a single sentence that sounds like it fits your point... then there's no point really arguing, is there?

I think most Christians think that last part of your post more then anybody.(In America that is)

Actually, I find it about even between Christians and non Christians.

 

[A.Nonymous]

He already told you what was different. People made the choice to sell themselves into slavery and it was for a certain time period.

It seems to me that you have made up your mind that all religion is evil. You are looking at the world through these glasses and have lost any objectivity.

 

[HalfFrozen]

He already told you what was different. People made the choice to sell themselves into slavery and it was for a certain time period.

It seems to me that you have made up your mind that all religion is evil. You are looking at the world through these glasses and have lost any objectivity.

If this is so over your head then I don't know how I can further talk to you people, slavery is slavery, there is no middle ground between this and that when talking about slavery.

Uhm.. Majority of Religions is evil, and the fact that you fail to see that is extremely saddening.

I don't think glasses have anything to do with anything.

 

[HalfFrozen]

Actually, I find it about even between Christians and non Christians.

According to some polls, Christians are around 78-82% of the population in just America, and I know alot of them who do not like Muslims since 9/11 happened.

So I think your post is invalid.

 

[A.Nonymous]

If this is so over your head then I don't know how I can further talk to you people, slavery is slavery, there is no middle ground between this and that when talking about slavery.

Uhm.. Majority of Religions is evil, and the fact that you fail to see that is extremely saddening.

I don't think glasses have anything to do with anything.

Religion is evil. That is why religious people give more money every year than non-religious people do. That includes to both religious and secular causes. Religious people give more to secular causes than secular people do.

Religion is evil. That is why when disasters strike religious based organizations are always the first ones there and always the last ones to leave. Religious people are more likely to volunteer time/money to disaster relief than non-religious people are.

Religion is evil. Tell this to the people who work at the crisis pregnancy center I've done computer work for before. Women come in and they give them free sonograms and refer them to local physicians who will work with them during pregnancy free of charge. They will direct the women to resources for free baby stuff (diapers, bottles, etc....) if the woman decides they want to keep the baby and will also direct them to various adoption agencies if the mother wants to go that route. What do they charge for this service? Absolutely nothing. Clearly they are a nefarious organization.

Religion is evil. Hey, it gave us Mother Theresa. She started missions in over 100 countries and helped people with HIV/AIDS, TB, leprosy, etc.... And she is but one example of someone running a non-profit in a 3rd world country. For every Mother Theresa, there are literally hundreds if not thousands doing similar work in complete anonymity. Chances are you don't know the name of the person running the soup kitchen in your town. Chances are it's a religious based organization that's running it.

Yeah, all religion is evil. We need to focus on the Benny Hinns and Fred Phelps of the world and toss in a pedophile priest or two. These are an accurate representation of what all Christians are like. Heck, I know that anyone who runs their own business is evil because I read about a few corrupt CEOs in the news recently.

 

[HalfFrozen]

Religion is evil. That is why religious people give more money every year than non-religious people do. That includes to both religious and secular causes. Religious people give more to secular causes than secular people do.

Obviously a majority of people(about 80%) will be a 'bigger' number. Maybe what you would need to look at is the percentage of those religious people who donate, and who doesn't. Over just the number. That is like saying you are likely to be bitten by a drone ant over the queen ant(I don't even think a queen ant bites but just go with it).


Religion is evil. That is why when disasters strike religious based organizations are always the first ones there and always the last ones to leave. Religious people are more likely to volunteer time/money to disaster relief than non-religious people are.

And again. Obviously a majority of people(about 80%) will be a 'bigger' number.


Religion is evil. Tell this to the people who work at the crisis pregnancy center I've done computer work for before. Women come in and they give them free sonograms and refer them to local physicians who will work with them during pregnancy free of charge. They will direct the women to resources for free baby stuff (diapers, bottles, etc....) if the woman decides they want to keep the baby and will also direct them to various adoption agencies if the mother wants to go that route. What do they charge for this service? Absolutely nothing. Clearly they are a nefarious organization.

And they shouldn't charge them anything anyways... I don't see how Religion has anything to do with basic information giving.

Religion is evil. Hey, it gave us Mother Theresa. She started missions in over 100 countries and helped people with HIV/AIDS, TB, leprosy, etc.... And she is but one example of someone running a non-profit in a 3rd world country. For every Mother Theresa, there are literally hundreds if not thousands doing similar work in complete anonymity. Chances are you don't know the name of the person running the soup kitchen in your town. Chances are it's a religious based organization that's running it.

What was it that helped with the curing of all those things again though.. ohh thats right, the one thing Religion tried but failed to abolish, Science.


Yeah, all religion is evil. We need to focus on the Benny Hinns and Fred Phelps of the world and toss in a pedophile priest or two. These are an accurate representation of what all Christians are like. Heck, I know that anyone who runs their own business is evil because I read about a few corrupt CEOs in the news recently.

Ultimately, you are missing the overall point, the overall point is. Religion is Evil, not the people who use it.. ohh wait... Ok well MOST of the people who use Religion aren't Evil.

What is Religion doing to help it gain evidence for there being a god anyways? I am not talking about heresy or some personal visiting... I am talking about what is it doing to help it keep its followers, IMHO, as technology keeps going up and up, and we can discover new and amazing things(Life on other planets and maybe even the origin of mankind/the universe).

In 100 years I think Religion will loose a huge bulk of its followers to logic.

 

[A.Nonymous]

If this is so over your head then I don't know how I can further talk to you people, slavery is slavery, there is no middle ground between this and that when talking about slavery.

Either-Or Fallacy much?

I really, really wish you would stop replying inside a quote. Makes it more difficult to respond to you.

Obviously a majority of people(about 80%) will be a 'bigger' number. Maybe what you would need to look at is the percentage of those religious people who donate, and who doesn't. Over just the number. That is like saying you are likely to be bitten by a drone ant over the queen ant(I don't even think a queen ant bites but just go with it).

Those numbers are per capita. In a 2000, religious people volunteered twice as much as their secular counterparts. They donated 4 times as much to charities. This is per capita, not overall donations. And this is even factoring in other factors like race, economic status, family status, marital status, etc.... Overall, religious people give more and volunteer more often both to religious and secular charities and even to family and friends. That is a fact. Deny it all you want, but it's still a fact.

And again. Obviously a majority of people(about 80%) will be a 'bigger' number.

First to get there and last to leave. That has nothing to do with population numbers.

And they shouldn't charge them anything anyways... I don't see how Religion has anything to do with basic information giving.

Who do you think paid for that sonogram machine? The doctor and sonographers who operate it? The agencies who acquire and distribute the bottles, diapers, etc... This stuff ain't free. It's funded by charitable giving by mainly religious people.Why? Because these people feel that their religion demands that they do this. They see this as a ministry. How many free clinics are there that are completely secular and not funded by any religious organizations?

Ultimately, you are missing the overall point, the overall point is. Religion is Evil, not the people who use it.. ohh wait... Ok well MOST of the people who use Religion aren't Evil.

What is Religion doing to help it gain evidence for there being a god anyways? I am not talking about heresy or some personal visiting... I am talking about what is it doing to help it keep its followers, IMHO, as technology keeps going up and up, and we can discover new and amazing things(Life on other planets and maybe even the origin of mankind/the universe).

In 100 years I think Religion will loose a huge bulk of its followers to logic.

You have an inaccurate understanding on what religion exists for. Religion does not exist to prove that god exists. Religion is not here to prove anything one way or the other. The goal of religion, any religion, is to change the lives of it's followers and make them better people. I guess I fail to see the evilness in that goal.

Yes, religion will die in 100 years. Why? Because we now have logic and we now can explain the natural world. Problem with that is we've had logic and the scientific method for nearly a millennia. We've had the ability to explain the everyday occurences of the natural world for well over 500-600 years. Yet religion is just as strong as it was 500 years ago. It's just as strong as it was 1000 years ago. I realize you have a passionate hatred of all things religious, but it's not going away any time soon.

 

[cipher6]

Ultimately, you are missing the overall point, the overall point is. Religion is Evil, not the people who use it.. ohh wait... Ok well MOST of the people who use Religion aren't Evil.

What is Religion doing to help it gain evidence for there being a god anyways? I am not talking about heresy or some personal visiting... I am talking about what is it doing to help it keep its followers, IMHO, as technology keeps going up and up, and we can discover new and amazing things(Life on other planets and maybe even the origin of mankind/the universe).

In 100 years I think Religion will loose a huge bulk of its followers to logic.

Fun discussion...

1st.
How do you define "evil?" You can't mathematically or scientifically prove evil, There is no algorithm to determine morality. Its all pretty much faith.

So, in the absence of religion, some collection of beliefs, values, ideas etc about what "evil" is, how can you claim something is evil?

Any moral code, that defines "evil" is pretty much a religion.


2nd.
What good has religion done? Aside from the countless lives saved (who do you think is helping the most in Africa for example) and humanitarian missions. What about giving civilization a reason to continue existing?

Fertility levels: Every society needs a fertility level of at least 2.1 to keep from getting smaller and smaller every generation, until no one speaks their language and their ideas, values and beliefs are lost under the sands of time. (an average of 2.1 kids per female, to keep the population stable.)


Now, plot fertility levels of the world countries on a graph. Overlay religious levels on the same graph. As religion goes down, so does fertility. Europe, is loosing religion fast, and most of Europe is below replacement levels.

Of course religion isn't the only factor in demographics of a country, but there does seem to be a strong correlation.

And some intersting commentary on the subject:

For today's Europeans, there is no consolation, neither the old pagan continuity of national culture, nor the Christian continuity into the hereafter. The French know that Victor Hugo, Gauloise cigarettes, Chateau Lafitte and Impressionist painters one day will become a matter of antiquarian curiosity. The Germans know that no one but bored schoolboys will read Goethe two centuries hence, like Pindar. They have no ambition but to die quietly, no concerns except for those amusements which might reduce boredom and anxiety en route to the grave.

Asia Times

3rd. How can a collection of beliefs and ideas be "evil?" Ideas aren't "evil" people are. If you attribute every bad thing done by an individual Christian to Christianity, then I can attribute every bad thing done by individual Atheist to Atheism.


If I use your standard of measurement:
Mao Tse-tung, killed ~50 million, in the name of Atheism
Stalin ~60 million
Lenin a few hundred thousand
Pol Pot, One to three million (or between a quarter and a third of the country's population).


So, is that really the way we should measure the benefit/harmfulness of religion/non-religion?

 

[cipher6]

Obviously a majority of people(about 80%) will be a 'bigger' number. Maybe what you would need to look at is the percentage of those religious people who donate, and who doesn't.

Ok, lets do that:

However, a comprehensive study by Harvard University professor Robert Putnam found that religious people are more charitable than their irreligious counterparts.[30][31] The study revealed that forty percent of worship service attending Americans volunteer regularly to help the poor and elderly as opposed to 15% of Americans who never attend services.[30][31] Moreover, religious individuals are more likely than non-religious individuals to volunteer for school and youth programs (36% vs. 15%), a neighborhood or civic group (26% vs. 13%), and for health care (21% vs. 13%).[30][31]

Irreligion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[cipher6]

Yes, religion will die in 100 years. Why? Because we now have logic and we now can explain the natural world.

That was the accept idea a few decades ago, but its being proved wrong. The world is becoming MORE religious.

Amazon.com: The Desecularization of the World: Resurgent Religion and World Politics (9780802846914): Peter L. Berger: Books

Europe is the exception to the rule

 

[HalfFrozen]

Either-Or Fallacy much?

Because the answer offends you, it is a Fallacy? Great.

Those numbers are per capita. In a 2000, religious people volunteered twice as much as their secular counterparts. They donated 4 times as much to charities. This is per capita, not overall donations. And this is even factoring in other factors like race, economic status, family status, marital status, etc.... Overall, religious people give more and volunteer more often both to religious and secular charities and even to family and friends. That is a fact. Deny it all you want, but it's still a fact.

245,605,240 compared to 98,242,096.(based off of 2009) There is quite a gap between religious and non-religious people.

With a standard survey of about 18,000 people min. you are obviously going to find more and more Religious people then non.

First to get there and last to leave. That has nothing to do with population numbers.

Yes, yes it does.

Who do you think paid for that sonogram machine? The doctor and sonographers who operate it? The agencies who acquire and distribute the bottles, diapers, etc... This stuff ain't free. It's funded by charitable giving by mainly religious people.Why? Because these people feel that their religion demands that they do this. They see this as a ministry. How many free clinics are there that are completely secular and not funded by any religious organizations?

It still doesn't prove that Religion isn't evil. You can do as much as you want to try and wipe the slate clean for religion and what it has done through history, but you never will.

You have an inaccurate understanding on what religion exists for. Religion does not exist to prove that god exists. Religion is not here to prove anything one way or the other. The goal of religion, any religion, is to change the lives of it's followers and make them better people. I guess I fail to see the evilness in that goal.

What I think it exists for is different then what you do, that doesn't make my understanding inaccurate, but just different then yours. Religion was wrote by man, for man to control man.

Yes, religion will die in 100 years. Why? Because we now have logic and we now can explain the natural world. Problem with that is we've had logic and the scientific method for nearly a millennia. We've had the ability to explain the everyday occurences of the natural world for well over 500-600 years. Yet religion is just as strong as it was 500 years ago. It's just as strong as it was 1000 years ago. I realize you have a passionate hatred of all things religious, but it's not going away any time soon.

I cant say that NO good comes from Religion. I am saying that behind all of the glitz and glam religion hides behind, you have to really look at it and think if it was truly 'gods word' or was it mans word.

When I am talking about religion will be gone, I am talking about the controllability it forces onto people.(saying if you do this or this or this or this or this etc., you go to hell)

 

[A.Nonymous]

Because the answer offends you, it is a Fallacy? Great.

No. Your statement that there is no middle ground is a fallacy. You're arguing that either slavery is evil or it is good. There is no middle ground. That's the fallacy. Byteware has very clearly spelled out the difference in slavery in modern times and slavery in Biblical times. Yet you claim slavery is evil no matter what and there's no middle ground.

245,605,240 compared to 98,242,096.(based off of 2009) There is quite a gap between religious and non-religious people.

With a standard survey of about 18,000 people min. you are obviously going to find more and more Religious people then non.

Once again, the numbers are per capita, not collective. PER CAPITA religious people give four times as much as non-secular people. Those are per capita numbers. They have nothing to do with population.

Yes, yes it does.

How so? What stops the secular agencies from getting there first? What stops them from staying the longest?

It still doesn't prove that Religion isn't evil. You can do as much as you want to try and wipe the slate clean for religion and what it has done through history, but you never will.

A brilliant logical argument. If you do anything evil at any point in history, you are evil for all of time and nothing at all can ever fix it. By this logic, all Germans are evil and always will be evil. They perpetuated and supported the Holocaust which we can all agree was evil. Because they committed evil in the past they are henceforth evil forever.

What I think it exists for is different then what you do, that doesn't make my understanding inaccurate, but just different then yours. Religion was wrote by man, for man to control man.

Prove it. Open up any religious tome and it states that it's goals are to change the hearts/lives of it's followers. If you are saying that is a lie, then prove it. Please point to a point in time where there was no religion. Everyone was atheistic. Then someone stepped up, decided that he/she wanted to control everything so he came up with a religion. Please point out when that happened. That's the logical conclusion of your "man created religion" argument - there was a time in the past when there was no religion. Please point that out to us.

I cant say that NO good comes from Religion. I am saying that behind all of the glitz and glam religion hides behind, you have to really look at it and think if it was truly 'gods word' or was it mans word.

When I am talking about religion will be gone, I am talking about the controllability it forces onto people.(saying if you do this or this or this or this or this etc., you go to hell)

Questioning whether a religion is the word of God or the word of man is fine and good. You're flat out stating that it's man's word and you have no proof of that whatsoever.

Again, people said that over a thousand years ago. Hasn't happened yet. Doesn't seem to be happening now. The reason why? People choose to follow a particular religion. No one forces me to be a Muslim or Jew or a Christian or a Wiccan or whatever. No one forces me to abide by a particular moral code. If I don't like the moral code of a particular religion, I can reject it and go find another religion or I can even claim that I'm a member of a particular religious denomination and ever accept any of it's teachings. Maybe that's to my good and maybe that's to my detriment, but it still is my choice.

 

[byteware]

If this is so over your head then I don't know how I can further talk to you people, slavery is slavery, there is no middle ground between this and that when talking about slavery.

A gas is a gas, and there is no middle ground when talking about gas... I mean, there is no difference between Hydrogen and Helium. They are both gas.

Just because something shares a name, doesn't make it the same thing.

Uhm.. Majority of Religions is evil, and the fact that you fail to see that is extremely saddening.

And this is the emotional crux of your argument. Your argument is completely based upon this emotion, and built around it (that's why it's logic is so extremely shaky... "slavery is slavery" ).

Just stick with you think All Religions are Evil (or most if you prefer) and don't try to justify it. You are entitled to your opinion. When you start stating things that are obviously not true... then that just undermines your point.

 

[byteware]

According to some polls, Christians are around 78-82% of the population in just America, and I know alot of them who do not like Muslims since 9/11 happened.

So I think your post is invalid.

Wow... I know a lot of Non-Christians who don't like Muslims after 9/11... so I guess that makes my post COMPLETELY VALID!!! (best doctor doofenschmirtz voice).

All sarcasm and joking aside. A lot of people in the US don't like Muslims after 9/11... terrorist attacks have that affect on people. It's not limited to a particular religion. The fact that you attempt to make it out like it is undermines your argument.

 

[HalfFrozen]

3rd. How can a collection of beliefs and ideas be "evil?" Ideas aren't "evil" people are. If you attribute every bad thing done by an individual Christian to Christianity, then I can attribute every bad thing done by individual Atheist to Atheism.


If I use your standard of measurement:
Mao Tse-tung, killed ~50 million, in the name of Atheism
Stalin ~60 million
Lenin a few hundred thousand
Pol Pot, One to three million (or between a quarter and a third of the country's population).


So, is that really the way we should measure the benefit/harmfulness of religion/non-religion?

Mao, Stalin and also Pol Pot were not Atheist's, they may have tried to exterminate Religion, but I never have read that they killed in the name of Religion, I have read though, that alot of Christians like to say they were into Social Darwinism.

That was the accept idea a few decades ago, but its being proved wrong. The world is becoming MORE religious.

Amazon.com: The Desecularization of the World: Resurgent Religion and World Politics (9780802846914): Peter L. Berger: Books

Europe is the exception to the rule

Dammit man, I already have a list of books I need to read from a Christian friend who says the books will change my life.

Europe has all kinds of debates about it going on..

No. Your statement that there is no middle ground is a fallacy. You're arguing that either slavery is evil or it is good. There is no middle ground. That's the fallacy. Byteware has very clearly spelled out the difference in slavery in modern times and slavery in Biblical times. Yet you claim slavery is evil no matter what and there's no middle ground.

Ok, so since they offered them selves to be slaves, that doesn't make it slavery, then what is it? How is slavery good?

A brilliant logical argument. If you do anything evil at any point in history, you are evil for all of time and nothing at all can ever fix it. By this logic, all Germans are evil and always will be evil. They perpetuated and supported the Holocaust which we can all agree was evil. Because they committed evil in the past they are henceforth evil forever.

If you meant to say Nazi's instead of Germans then yes, that is accurate. Otherwise, once again you aren't understanding what I am trying to say.

Prove it. Open up any religious tome and it states that it's goals are to change the hearts/lives of it's followers. If you are saying that is a lie, then prove it. Please point to a point in time where there was no religion. Everyone was atheistic. Then someone stepped up, decided that he/she wanted to control everything so he came up with a religion. Please point out when that happened. That's the logical conclusion of your "man created religion" argument - there was a time in the past when there was no religion. Please point that out to us.

So every single tome ever says that exactly? Nothing about murdering your spouse, or child, or stoning someone for a petty crime, nothing about committing genocide, nothing about any of that?

A point in time where there was no Religion... hmm, I would have to go with when mankind first started. I honestly cant point to the exact time because I am not sure of when that was exactly.

Annnnd once again, you are misunderstanding what I am saying. There was belief before religion, and that belief is what "man" saw and turned it into Religion for all to follow, or be damned for eternity.

Questioning whether a religion is the word of God or the word of man is fine and good. You're flat out stating that it's man's word and you have no proof of that whatsoever.

And as you cannot prove it is gods word. So we can just stop it there.
You may think the burden of proof is set on me, but he who makes the root claim, has the burden of proof.(and BTW, the root claim is that the bible is gods word)

Again, people said that over a thousand years ago. Hasn't happened yet. Doesn't seem to be happening now. The reason why? People choose to follow a particular religion. No one forces me to be a Muslim or Jew or a Christian or a Wiccan or whatever. No one forces me to abide by a particular moral code. If I don't like the moral code of a particular religion, I can reject it and go find another religion or I can even claim that I'm a member of a particular religious denomination and ever accept any of it's teachings. Maybe that's to my good and maybe that's to my detriment, but it still is my choice.

A gas is a gas, and there is no middle ground when talking about gas... I mean, there is no difference between Hydrogen and Helium. They are both gas.

Just because something shares a name, doesn't make it the same thing.

Slavery is bad all around, when was it ever good?

Explain your logic of how slavery then, was so much better then it is now/

Wow... I know a lot of Non-Christians who don't like Muslims after 9/11... so I guess that makes my post COMPLETELY VALID!!! (best doctor doofenschmirtz voice).

The fact that you think I was talking about people I know personally.. is quite amusing.

All sarcasm and joking aside. A lot of people in the US don't like Muslims after 9/11... terrorist attacks have that affect on people. It's not limited to a particular religion. The fact that you attempt to make it out like it is undermines your argument.

I meant to say Religion to be more broad, not christian.

 

[Dark Jedi]

He already told you what was different. People made the choice to sell themselves into slavery and it was for a certain time period.

Isnt that called indentured servant?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Ok, so since they offered them selves to be slaves, that doesn't make it slavery, then what is it? How is slavery good?

Once again, you're going for the either-or fallacy. No one said slavery was good. They just said it was different. You are arguing that slavery must either be good or bad and that there's no in between.

If you meant to say Nazi's instead of Germans then yes, that is accurate. Otherwise, once again you aren't understanding what I am trying to say.

The German populace supported the Holocaust at the time. Just saying.

So every single tome ever says that exactly? Nothing about murdering your spouse, or child, or stoning someone for a petty crime, nothing about committing genocide, nothing about any of that?

Yes. All religious texts make it clear that is their underlying goal. How many of them have you read may I ask?

A point in time where there was no Religion... hmm, I would have to go with when mankind first started. I honestly cant point to the exact time because I am not sure of when that was exactly.

Annnnd once again, you are misunderstanding what I am saying. There was belief before religion, and that belief is what "man" saw and turned it into Religion for all to follow, or be damned for eternity.

Then your argument falls apart. You propose a timeline that goes like this:

Men are all atheists.
One day a man has a belief (no clue at all what that means)
Another man (or perhaps the first one) turns that belief into a religion with the goal of controlling people.

Where is the proof of that?

And as you cannot prove it is gods word. So we can just stop it there.
You may think the burden of proof is set on me, but he who makes the root claim, has the burden of proof.(and BTW, the root claim is that the bible is gods word)

Did I ever claim it was gods word? I don't recall that I did. If I did, please quote where I said that. You specifically stated that the Bible was written by men and is nothing more than the words of men. Prove it. Again, you're not making statements of opinion here. You are making statements of fact and I'm merely asking you to back them up.

Slavery is bad all around, when was it ever good?

Explain your logic of how slavery then, was so much better then it is now/

You're going back to the either-or fallacy of before. Byteware has already explained how it was different because it was voluntary and temporary. I have no idea what you're looking for beyond that.