Help GPS function is wasted after 2.3.4 Update

[WolfmanRobby]

Ok, I'm confused. How do I tell its flaking out if its just sitting here connected to the satellites and not going anywhere?

In the GPS Status and Toolbox app, you can go to the Radar screen and manually enter the Coord's of a cache and track it down that way. That's how we old timers did it with the old school GPSr's. And, we had to walk up hill, both ways, in the snow for every cache we went after to!!! LoL!!
Just pull the coords for the cache by logging into the GC.com in the phone's browser. Yeah, it's a pain, but it's just for testing. It's not like this is how you'll always have to do it.

I'd say, go try to or 3 caches this way and see how reliable it is. If you don't have problems, THEN put the Geocaching.com app back on there and go after a couple of more caches... See how it behaves.

And how is GC.com a waste of $10 when I have no alternatives? Since the other program you speak of is in private beta testing, $10 to geocache beats wandering around hoping you'll just bump into one. Its the only alternative to nothing right now..?

Honestly, it's just a crappy app. There are a couple of others. But, once we figure out what's going on with your GPS in the phone, I'll see if I can get you into the private beta for CacheSense.

 

[33Forward]

Ok. Gotcha.
I'll have to do it later, headed to the shop for awhile. Like I said, I work on cars, but when it comes to replacing fuel lines (thanks to a detour up a very washed out seasonal road going after a cache... in my 4 door Buick) I leave fuel lines to the pros.

I'll have to try and find something around here and do it old school. I live in a very cacheless area. The nearest one I can get to that I haven't found yet (up to 114 finds as of Wednesday) is easily a 30 minute drive one way, most likely farther. I'm hoping to put some of my own out, once I fix my phone. I have the supplies to do some, but I just don't want to set anything up if I can't get a reliable lock on coordinates to post for them. Like I said above, I have various types on my property just for testing, so I've manually put in the coordinates for those before on the radar, just to test them out.

Any ideas on the 0ft accuracy? Seems to be more of a common issue that I've noticed in other threads.

Maybe part of the problem is that there just aren't many users that take an Atrix caching, so nothing gets reported. Wonder how many Atrix owners actually are this involved into their GPS and its settings to even notice?

I do plan on getting a GPSr someday soon. I love the phone, but I'm getting into 3+ terrain caches, and just don't want to risk anything happening to the phone. Its proven itself, and can still do PnG's, but I'm gonna look into something a bit more dedicated now that I figured its something I'm gonna stick with. Especially in my area, cell service is still really bad. So, relying on the phone's ability to retrieve data outside of my generated PQs is frustrating sometimes.

 

[WolfmanRobby]

Well, the 0ft accuracy is something that I know Bruce is looking at in CacheSense, and it's more than just my Atrix on GB. I think it's happening on other devices, other builds. (I was having it on FroYo, 2.2)

As for placing a cache, or wanting reliability... You need a handheld GPSr. The GPS chips in the phone are "CHEAP" compared to a handheld GPSr. I have a Magellan Explorist 210 that I bought in 2005 for geoCaching. It may be 7 years old, but it's more accurate than any phone I've seen used in the field. That includes the 2 BlackBerry phones and my Atrix I've used, a friends iPhone4, and a couple of other BlackBerry and Android phones.

For me, Geocaching from the phone is for 2 purposes:
-Beginners wanting to get their feet wet without a major investment in a GPSr.
-Convenience - I don't always have time to pull down a PQ on my laptop, pull it into GSAK, then export it over to my GPSr by the USB cable. Sometimes, I'm out, waiting on someone, or something, and just like to be able to fire up the phone and see if there is a quick smiley near by,

I have never, and will never place a cache using Coord's I pulled from my phone until they get MUCH MORE powerful GPS chips in them.

For now, the GPS units in the phone are put there for quick location based services, and navigation. None of those really need anything more than 100ft accuracy, so why would the phone makers drop more than a "few Pennies" on the chip?

 

[riverlynx]

33Forward & riverlynx

Do BOTH of you have the official Geocaching app or c:geo?
Both of those run in the background at random intervals, both of them have released several updates to the applications due to site GC.com redesigns and for GB compatibility.

Are you sure that you are up to date on both of those apps?

Also, 33Forward, that's not exctly what I told you to try. By putting geocaching and c:geo both back on there, we can't tell what the problem is. That's why I said to wipe and ONLY put one of the GPS testing app's on there. Leave ALL other GPS related apps off the phone. Remove all of those apps for testing. You can live with out them for a couple of days to try to figure out where the problem is.

(FYI - c:geo is an "Illegal" app under GS terms as they illegally scrape the database. Instead of trying to shut them down, Like people claimed, GC.com reached out to them and offered them official access to the API. The developer of c:geo refused. C:geo is a great app, but they are breaking the rules the way it works. How they function is technically HACKING the GC.com database through your user account. GroundSpeak spends a LOT of money maintaining the site, and the database of caches. When apps like c:geo SCRAPE that database illegally, it puts a drain on the gc.com servers and causes problems with the database. GroundSpeak would be well withing their rights (and I think they SHOULD) to DELETE and BAN any user who's account logs in through the c:geo app as long as c:geo refuses to comply with the data access restrictions. - From this point on, I will REFUSE to help ANYONE that states they are using C:Geo on their phone until C:Geo agrees to comply with Groundspeak's policies for access to the GC.com Live API - End of discussion!
Geocaching Live Access and Restrictions
Customer Feedback for Geocaching - API for 3rd party applications )

I don't have or use "the official Geocaching app or c:geo" Apps.

I just noticed that WolfmanRobby; Shows "GA" on his member information. That's pretty weird, because when my GPS function is acting bad, it shows my location in Georgia rather that where I am in Oregon. Good thing I'm not very paranoid Wolf.

I'd try a factory Reset; but I'm not sure about how to go about it all. I have dozens and dozens of Apps, is there a good way to make a list of all the Apps, a Print out? How does one go about doing the reset, step by step; any pointers would be greatly appreciated. What do I back up? Etc.

Yesterday I couldn't get the GPS to work for a long time, the last thing I did was to un-select the Settings>Location and Security>Use Wireless Networks. Though the MAIN Wireless setting is ON and connected. As soon as I unselected it, I started to FIX on the Satellites and the FIX stays strong even inside my house.

It has been most difficult to recreate any conditions that seem to correct the NO-FIX situation, I'm ready to try a reset, but want to be able to not lose anything that I've put into the Atrix.

Thanks

 

[WolfmanRobby]

I've never used it, but a LOT of people like App Brain for backing up their apps.

I'm of the mind set that you make a list, and then just re-install them yourself. But, that's because I take that as a chance to "Housekeep" and not put all the apps back on there to see what apps I really need, and what are just taking up space.

There's been a few threads on doing the factory wipe and reload here. I don't have any right off, but a quick search of the site should give you more info than you need.

 

[riverlynx]

I've never used it, but a LOT of people like App Brain for backing up their apps.

I'm of the mind set that you make a list, and then just re-install them yourself. But, that's because I take that as a chance to "Housekeep" and not put all the apps back on there to see what apps I really need, and what are just taking up space.

There's been a few threads on doing the factory wipe and reload here. I don't have any right off, but a quick search of the site should give you more info than you need.

I opened an online AppBrain account and will familiarize myself with it. It quickly gave me the full list of all my apps, that I was able to print to PDF and my local printer. I think that with it and by copying my SD Cards, I will feel OK with a Factory Reset. Today the Atrix is so far doing good with the GPS, knock on wood. The Settings> Location & Security > "Use Wireless Settings" is unchecked, and the main Wireless IS Connected to my Desktop PC.

Thanks for the "Heads-Up" regarding the AppBrain stuff. I think it will allow me to do some housekeeping as well.

I'm still trying to figure why the GPS>Google Maps would show my location as in Georgia, I've never been there, know of no connections there, I am located in Oregon (Orygun).

 

[WolfmanRobby]

I'm still trying to figure why the GPS>Google Maps would show my location as in Georgia, I've never been there, know of no connections there, I am located in Oregon (Orygun).

Maybe it knows you'd rather be down here in Georgia (Jaw-Ja).

Back to what I mentioned above, I'm wondering if you either have a security app, or bit of malware (Spyware!) on the phone that's running the data through a proxy server on a network down here.

That's another reason for a wipe, and clean load with NOTHING else on there for testing.

 

[33Forward]

Robby, I was going through some of my apps I'd like to load (between my job, working the whole weekend, and the impending weather, I'd like to load a few weather and emergency apps) and found something interesting.

I had AAA Roadside on my phone, both before and after the upgrade. I was going to load it, and noticed a permission it was asking to grant it. It says:

Permissions:
Coarse and Fine GPS location (which is used to direct services to your breakdown spot, which is normal), but then it says "mock location sources for testing." Any idea what that is in there for?
I sent an email to the developers to ask what its used for, and why its needed. Hope this isn't the source of my issues, I love the program, and AAA saved my butt several times.
But, any idea? What exactly does "mock location sources for testing" let it do, and can it be a source of erratic GPS readings, even when not running?

 

[WolfmanRobby]

Well, that means that it will generate false locations into the system for testing/calibrating the GPS.

Could it be the source of the problem... Very possible. Leave it off for now. Make it one of the last apps you rule out.

As for causing problems when it's not running, this is what I posted last night, up in post #15 above....

Just because you are not using the app at that moment does not mean it won't effect the phone. Many programmers are SLOPPY and think it does nothing to leave their app running in the background as a service. They argue that it makes it launch their app faster, I say they are wasting 2 or 3 MB of my phones memory I could use for something else. Now, there are needed reasons for something to run in the background, say if it's checking for updates on something, like the FaceBook app. But, take a GeoCaching app, there's no reason for that to be doing anything on the phone unless you are using it.

So, it's very possible that it runs a service in the background. And, that service could be feeding bad data to the GPS for testing, not realizing that it's screwing with you otherwise.

 

[33Forward]

Thanks for the info.
Went out and grabbed 2 that just posted up, and added 2 more FTF's to my tally. Neither was in cell phone range, one in pretty open area, the other, not so much. So there were no false signals from towers anywhere, just to rule that out. (Even though I have it unchecked in settings anyway.)
First one was fine. Second one, it buggered out a little, but not bad. I think it was more my fault not being able to hold it steady. They were quick finds, so it really didn't have time to put me off track. It was dead on the mark with both hides. When it works right, the GPS is a pretty darn good bloodhound IMO.
Its usually fine for awhile. But if I'm after a string of them, it seems to spin me around after a few hours. Nothing predictable or repeatable, but thats just the way it seems.
Thanks for helping us out, seriously. I know its frustrating on both ends. Its like me helping out people in the car forums. If you could see it, grab it and test things, you could easily fix it. But you're relying on information 2nd hand. Its tough, I know.

 

[WolfmanRobby]

Well guys, have either of you had any luck?

Just for a little confirmation of my theory that it's not the GPS, but the netowrk assisted location data throwing you off, let me tell you what happened to me the other night.

I was at home, in the house, connected to my WiFi, with the GPS off. I was testing a Beta build of the GeoCaching app I test for and I noticed that all of the Cache's reported they were over 900 miles away from me. Even one I knew was less than a mile away. At first, I thought it was a bug in the application, after all, it was a new Beta build.

However, I fired up google maps and it centered me in Tulsa, OK. I'm located about 40 miles north of Atlanta, GA. I turned off my WiFi, and let the phone get an assisted location from the cell tower. When I did, google maps brought me back to within a few miles of my location (The location of the cell tower I was connected to).

I did some investigation. It seemed the IP my wireless router was getting from my ISP (AT&T DSL) was registered to AT&T's Tulsa, OK office. So, the "use network location" thought I was in Tulsa.

 

[zapjb]

I can't view the map full screen. Half the screen is taken up by blank black boxes used for attributes of GPS Essentials. I just want to view the map full screen. I'm sure I'm overlooking something. Help would be appreciated, thanks.

Solved Doh! Just dragged down the map.