I will keep this brief.
1) I posted two articles, because posting thousands would have been rude, and two said all that needed to be said.
2) I'm wrong because you say I am? Let me think about that... nope. Not good enough. Prove it.
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Health Care - STOP believeing the BULL and buying the SCAM
- Thread starter droiduzr2
- Start date
I will keep this brief.
1) I posted two articles, because posting thousands would have been rude, and two said all that needed to be said.
2) I'm wrong because you say I am? Let me think about that... nope. Not good enough. Prove it.
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I'm going to remind everyone what I posted earlier in the thread here.
We're all for healthy and vigorous debate, but that requires listening to others' viewpoints as well as expousing your own. Otherwise the debate simply becomes a wall of noise and ceases to serve any purpose.
IOW, let's see more discussion and less lecturing/preaching, please.
We're all for healthy and vigorous debate, but that requires listening to others' viewpoints as well as expousing your own. Otherwise the debate simply becomes a wall of noise and ceases to serve any purpose.
IOW, let's see more discussion and less lecturing/preaching, please.
jamor
Android Expert
Yea I just can't really buy this.
I say this as someone who was born in Canada and lives in the U.S. with relatives that live in Canada with no hate towards either.
While it's obvious the U.S. health care system doesn't cater to the poor or unemployed, it is allows for speedy care and better doctors.
You have to wait a lot longer in Canada for surgery and other health care necessities.
In fact, the wealthy from Canada and all around the world come to the U.S. to get taken care of. Better doctors and more of them too.
While the Canadian system is a better healthcare system for the poor and unemployed, the U.S. healthcare system is much better if you have insurance.
So they both have their pros and cons.
PayScale Canada - People with Jobs as Physicians / Doctors Salary, Average Salaries by Job
They get paid more than that because that is their base salary and they get paid per patient visit also. So think of you get a guaranteed salary PLUS you get paid for every patient you see (commission) AND the Hospitals also have incentives to attract the better talent. My soon to be Dr. friend told me Radiologists start at $200k and go up. The older Doctors (45+) that I know are all millionaires.
Plus you can setup your own specialized clinics which is another source of income. There is LOTS of incentives for them but the main goal is they have FREEDOM to PRACTICE MEDICINE.
You have a tiny bit of a point there if we compare to US Doctors. They are paid very well here. They have their Agency that sets the rates for them and it increases yearly. The Doctors I know live in nice areas and drive expensive cars.
They are not poor or hurting.
Our Doctors do NOT answer to an HMO. Dumb ass humans made medicine a profit incentive which by default if you think about it, it should not be. I mean medicine as far as hand on treatment goes not R&D.
They even offer incentives to work in smaller or rural communities. Lawyers are an extension and result of the Capitalist system, right
I thought the #1 reason one should or would want to become a Doctor is to help heal people and find cures versus becoming rich
Personally Teachers (and Nurses) need to be paid more as they are in control of a Nations wealth and success.
Think about this as I sat in the delivery room watching the magic of delivering a baby. You began life in the care of a Nurse and Doctor, now you made it out...the next person that child will spend A LOT of time with is a TEACHER. So from healthy body to hopefully educated mind are in the hands of someone else. I was really awestruck by level of care and concern from the Nurses.
They are amazing people but I guess a CEO needs to have a $1 gold toilet to pee and poo into. A leader of anything should be measured by how much better off did they leave the people from the time they were in charge. Money will come, this we know...but how much greed can one person have. Greed is a sin in the Bible in all "Bibles" of global Religion but yet their is no scorn for such people. EVERYONE on this planet has 1 thing in common and 1 absolute guarantee...from a President to a pauper...we will all die.
Ever notice how old tyrants and wrong doers seem to realize and wish they did things differently just before they die? Perhaps we need to begin with the end in mind therefore leaving our children with a better place than we had or is that too much to ask.
You do realize that doctors are not government employees, correct? They tend to be small business owners, and so they do NOT draw a salary. Instead, they make whatever they bill the provincial governments for. (Additionally, the quality and availability of care varies by province due to how the system is setup).
In short -- you're wrong about calling that their salary and then adding on what they get for seeing patients -- that "salary" is what they get for seeing patients on an annual basis, averaged out.
Specialists tend to make more, I imagine, but don't know enough about the Canadian system to confirm that.
You know what? I also have a family doctor here in the states that I can see on the same day when I need to. I have no issues getting scans on the same day. Why would I want to move to a system where a government agency would decide if my scan is more necessary than someone elses?
Tell me -- how do you pay for your drugs? Out of pocket? Interesting. Were you aware that the reason your drugs are able to be bought so cheap is because the U.S. system functionally pays for all of the R&D for drug companies? Canada engages in substantial price setting, which can deny novel treatments so its citizens because it won't allow a novel treatment to cost more than any existing treatment.
and there in lies the problem.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Actually, yes they do have options. They can go to free clinics. They do exist.
E
electric monk
Guest
That's what exit polls are for, yes. And what I've seen suggests that the economy was the motivating factor for a majority of Americans. So, please, show me the exit polling data that backs your opinion.
IIRC, health care/reform was the 2nd largest factor, though substantially behind the economy (60% vs 15?)
copestag
Android Expert
its not really that cut and dry to say economy vs healthcare as being the reasoning.......
its probably more appropriate to say the logic was instead the fact that they pushed the healthcare agenda INSTEAD of fixing the economy
its a combination of the 2 that was the motivating factor......
IMO if they had spent 100% of their time working on the economy instead of working on healthcare....... EVEN if the economy was in the exact same position its in as a result........ it would have been a different story
the voters werent simply saying because you didnt fix the economy we are voting you out......... they are saying because you worked on healthcare and didnt work on fixing the economy we are voting you out
exit polls are no different than pre-election polls..... they give you results based on the questions you ask...... the wording of the questions determine the results you get
its probably more appropriate to say the logic was instead the fact that they pushed the healthcare agenda INSTEAD of fixing the economy
its a combination of the 2 that was the motivating factor......
IMO if they had spent 100% of their time working on the economy instead of working on healthcare....... EVEN if the economy was in the exact same position its in as a result........ it would have been a different story
the voters werent simply saying because you didnt fix the economy we are voting you out......... they are saying because you worked on healthcare and didnt work on fixing the economy we are voting you out
exit polls are no different than pre-election polls..... they give you results based on the questions you ask...... the wording of the questions determine the results you get
I keep wondering just ANY REASONABLE or HALF reasonable person would think that a problem that was in the making for 8 years could be solved in 2 years of less.
If you read a bit more you soon learn that KEEPING a country in DEBT is the way BANKS esp. the FEDERAL RESERVE banks keeps a nation under their control and manipulation. Did people REALLY NEED to have things end up like the Great Depression Era to realize just how bad things got? NEITHER PARTY could fix the problem in 4 years. Listen to few REAL Economists and they ALL AGREE it its more a 6 years ate best plan but closer to 10 years balance out. THIS is the NEW reality, the old days are gone.
* my comments are not aimed at you copestag
Please watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
I did not watch the video but based on the opening OBVIOUS FEAR and SCARE pics I can guess where it is going.
Believe what you want considering you NEVER probably lived here much less visited.
Who funded that video?
Is this like the same idea that cigarettes are SAFE to smoke because of a study put out by the Tobacco industry?
Based on the DATA it's seems that you are no longer the UNITED states but now the DIVIDED...Hell, you guys can't even agree on 1 thing. You would think AT THE LEAST EDUCATION would be a good place to start, who could object to that...oh wait you now have SENATORS and HOUSE MEMBERS wanting to do away with the Department of Education.
You really need to come out of that vacuum.
Best of luck to you. I really do wish you all the best.
Believe what you want considering you NEVER probably lived here much less visited.
Who funded that video?
Is this like the same idea that cigarettes are SAFE to smoke because of a study put out by the Tobacco industry?
Based on the DATA it's seems that you are no longer the UNITED states but now the DIVIDED...Hell, you guys can't even agree on 1 thing. You would think AT THE LEAST EDUCATION would be a good place to start, who could object to that...oh wait you now have SENATORS and HOUSE MEMBERS wanting to do away with the Department of Education.
You really need to come out of that vacuum.
Best of luck to you. I really do wish you all the best.
i don't see any problem.
How ignorant of you.
E
electric monk
Guest
How about when it's you or your family or friends? Is it a problem then?
Right, ignorant of ME...it's not my country that is drowning in TRILLION dollar debt and GROWING. Canada's debt $500 billion, just hit a all time high and our CONSERVATIVE Government increased it for stimulus spending to further ward off the recession. It's not by country that is DUMPING money into Iraq and Afghanistan to REBUILD their country. We were already in good shape because our banking system is OWNED by the CITIZENS unlike yours and ours are regulated so that they could NOT bring the country down.
So recap, Our CONSERVATIVE Government increased our debt to a WHOPPING $500 Billion oooh because they knew the GOVERNMENT had to keep the economy going due to the GLOBAL MELTDOWN but guess what...that debt is going to be paid and pushed RIGHT BACK DOWN.
Funny thing our LIBERAL,Labor, and Conservative Governments pretty much worked TOGETHER to ensure the COUNTRY did not suffer.
So far all of you that try to jump on my post OFFER NO SOLUTIONS OR SUGGESTIONS, you just inject BUMPER STICKER SLOGANS or something you saw on Fox.
oh how is that $200 MILLION a DAY thing coming along...you know where your OWN Politicians went on tv Bcchmann and even Mike Huckaby ( I like that guy, well less now) and sat there told told you a absolute LIE yet the lies grew bigger. Hucakbe being a former Governor of all people should have corrected that BUT NO he perpetuated it.
10% of the NAVY, bahahahha. Even the Pentagon spokesman had a hard time keeping a straight face when he had to give a press conference to dispel that.
Carry on, keep on fighting with each other.
China applauds you.
Funny how they don't tell you that Obama took CEO's to India to drum up BUSINESS for AMERICA. They made it seem like he and the 2000 or so people are there on a sight seeing tour.
i take care of my own and don't need the taxpayers to do it for me. it's called taking personal responsibility...something that many Americans lack.
none of my friends or family are poor or unemployed. they all take care of themselves quite well without my help. they like the personal responsibility thing also. amazing huh?
Dear Sir,
I think you are asking too much for people to be considerate of their fellow Citizens. Have you not learned that it's every man/woman for themselves. Perhaps you need to live in a gated community and if that it still too close to the 95% middle class peons then perhaps you need to move underground to those bunker housings.
Don't you know all those RICH people need not worry Bernie Madoff has you covered. Things can never go wrong so why create a safety net for the basics of life.
It is just a suggestion. Please leave aside any religious teachings, such as treat others as you want to be treated etc... What goes around comes around.
There is a funny thing that happens when the have nots have NOTHING... oh wait, I forgot you are looking into the bunker option.
You can buy your gold from him and store it in the bunker he sells too. Glenn Beck
Mr. Boom
Android Enthusiast
No, he doesn't win. He is still in Canada, or Utopia, or Valhalla, or wherever. It's obvious that he has no real grasp on economics, but has intently studied the ramblings found on Huffington Post and The Politico, and feels a strong need to demonize.
Either that, or he IS trying to convince himself more than us!
Either that, or he IS trying to convince himself more than us!
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
And the US Military budget alone is more than the next 26 developed Countries Military budget COMBINED still wonder why you are going broke?
It's interesting how the large DEBT and continued WAR mongering was already predicted in the 90's.
The Federal Reserve Is A privately Owned Corporation
Still think you own your country when you don't even own your own currency? You pay interest just to access your money printed on your presses with your paper and ink.
I like your Economics, go broke and keep pretending everything is sound...oh wait that's the JOHN McCain school of Economics.
Just remember that you BORROWED TRILLIONS of DOLLARS from CHINA but you keep on rambling. I guess you see no problem in the US, so what's with all the hubub then? According to you guys everything seems A okay so why all this outrage from the Tea Party types or are they just doing it for show.