Said much better than I could have.
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Health Care - STOP believeing the BULL and buying the SCAM
- Thread starter droiduzr2
- Start date
Said much better than I could have.
copestag
Android Expert
yes I think we could all agree that it would be best of healthcare coverage didnt come with such a hefty bill if you get ill.......... I dont know of anyone on either side of the argument who would say they dont care if a person dies because they couldnt afford to pay for insurance
there are many myths involved with that train of thought though........ as mentioned.......... there are Federal laws that state you cannot be refused emergency medical care for any reason whatsoever....... if you come in to an Emergency room because you got a papercut.... by law they have to see you and treat you...... they will attempt to bill you later....... if you cannot pay and have no assets to recoup their costs.... they will write it off
yes these writeoffs are figured into their normal operating costs........ which means they bill higher...... the higher bills which are paid by insurance etc in theory make up for their losses (I say in theory because this doesnt always or even usually occurr, which is why so many hospitals are always in the red)...... the end result of this however is that it costs more for insurance for everyone else....... so theres a portion of the problem...... now you could suggest that wouldnt be a problem if everyone was entitled to free coverage... there would be no bill to pay....... sure that seems to make sense (again in theory)
the flipside to that however is.... hospitals CANNOT operate on the amount the federal govt is willing to pay for services..... US doctors could not afford to stay in business..... one major difference is Malpractice Insurance...... something that the liberals REFUSE to address in this nation..... and its IMO the single biggest factor in healthcare costs
in the US the malpractice insurance is offered like any other type of insurance...... through companies in business to make a profit......whereas in Canada its only offered through non-profit companies...... the typical doctor in the US has to pay over $100K a year for insurance...... whereas in Canada they might pay $10K a year...... big difference...... so why are the rates so low in canada.... its simple...... they cap lawsuits (tort reform) at $300K..... so if a canadian doctor kills you while trying to remove a splinter from your toe.... the most you can sue for is $300K...... and that cap is rarely reached...... most lawsuits are settled for far lower..... this keeps malpractice insurance costs down... which means doctors and hospitals can lower their costs.......
on the other hand..... in the US in most states there is no limit at all...... so if a doctor kills you while trying to remove a splinter.... they can be sued for $300Billion if you want.... so this requires doctors to carry very expensive insurance.... and because of this doctors and hospitals have to calculate that in their costs of doing business as well.....
you see this isnt about greedy doctors or hospitals or insurance companies....... which btw has been shown time and time again through indesputable facts to have very LOW profit margins.... its about greedy people who want free care but also want to become rich if you accidentally leave a scar thats a centimeter too long
do this... next time you speak to someone in the US about health insurance ask them one simple question......... "If there was a law that said you could have unlimited free healthcare....... but no matter how bad the care you were not allowed to sue the provider for any reason...... would you be in favor of that law?"
see how many people would accept that
you can provide free healthcare all day long...... but as long as there are frivolous lawsuits the costs will be high to the govt or whoever has to pay for it......... doctors arent going to work for free.... and they arent going to work for the low wages the govt is willing to pay
so what happens then if universal healthcare becomes the norm...... well in the US here is what will happen...... doctors will quickly realize that they dont want to spend a decade of their life spending $100K or more for an education to work at a job where they can make the same kind of money with no educaton whatsoever...... so then you start getting lower quality doctors.... and far fewer doctors...... next thing that happens is you get crappy care and have to go on waiting lists to get simple procedures done...... then if you want quality care or want faster service you end up going to another country to get it...... remind you of somewhere..... like canada
and before you say thats a myth...... the numbers dont lie........ this was a major problem for many years.... canadians coming to the US for service because the canadian healthcare system would pay for it.... granted those numbers have decreased in the past several years...... but not because care is better or faster in canada...... instead its because canada lowered the rates they are willing to pay for you to do that......... so now if you want to come to the US for care a large portion of that is coming out of your pocket....... btw theres an entire industry of insurance in Canada for care out of the country... just for this purpose...... you can buy private insurance just to travel to the US for care.... I dont think they would be in business long if you could get the same care for free at home
anywho thats just some random ramblings.... most of which probably make no sense LOL
there are many myths involved with that train of thought though........ as mentioned.......... there are Federal laws that state you cannot be refused emergency medical care for any reason whatsoever....... if you come in to an Emergency room because you got a papercut.... by law they have to see you and treat you...... they will attempt to bill you later....... if you cannot pay and have no assets to recoup their costs.... they will write it off
yes these writeoffs are figured into their normal operating costs........ which means they bill higher...... the higher bills which are paid by insurance etc in theory make up for their losses (I say in theory because this doesnt always or even usually occurr, which is why so many hospitals are always in the red)...... the end result of this however is that it costs more for insurance for everyone else....... so theres a portion of the problem...... now you could suggest that wouldnt be a problem if everyone was entitled to free coverage... there would be no bill to pay....... sure that seems to make sense (again in theory)
the flipside to that however is.... hospitals CANNOT operate on the amount the federal govt is willing to pay for services..... US doctors could not afford to stay in business..... one major difference is Malpractice Insurance...... something that the liberals REFUSE to address in this nation..... and its IMO the single biggest factor in healthcare costs
in the US the malpractice insurance is offered like any other type of insurance...... through companies in business to make a profit......whereas in Canada its only offered through non-profit companies...... the typical doctor in the US has to pay over $100K a year for insurance...... whereas in Canada they might pay $10K a year...... big difference...... so why are the rates so low in canada.... its simple...... they cap lawsuits (tort reform) at $300K..... so if a canadian doctor kills you while trying to remove a splinter from your toe.... the most you can sue for is $300K...... and that cap is rarely reached...... most lawsuits are settled for far lower..... this keeps malpractice insurance costs down... which means doctors and hospitals can lower their costs.......
on the other hand..... in the US in most states there is no limit at all...... so if a doctor kills you while trying to remove a splinter.... they can be sued for $300Billion if you want.... so this requires doctors to carry very expensive insurance.... and because of this doctors and hospitals have to calculate that in their costs of doing business as well.....
you see this isnt about greedy doctors or hospitals or insurance companies....... which btw has been shown time and time again through indesputable facts to have very LOW profit margins.... its about greedy people who want free care but also want to become rich if you accidentally leave a scar thats a centimeter too long
do this... next time you speak to someone in the US about health insurance ask them one simple question......... "If there was a law that said you could have unlimited free healthcare....... but no matter how bad the care you were not allowed to sue the provider for any reason...... would you be in favor of that law?"
see how many people would accept that
you can provide free healthcare all day long...... but as long as there are frivolous lawsuits the costs will be high to the govt or whoever has to pay for it......... doctors arent going to work for free.... and they arent going to work for the low wages the govt is willing to pay
so what happens then if universal healthcare becomes the norm...... well in the US here is what will happen...... doctors will quickly realize that they dont want to spend a decade of their life spending $100K or more for an education to work at a job where they can make the same kind of money with no educaton whatsoever...... so then you start getting lower quality doctors.... and far fewer doctors...... next thing that happens is you get crappy care and have to go on waiting lists to get simple procedures done...... then if you want quality care or want faster service you end up going to another country to get it...... remind you of somewhere..... like canada
and before you say thats a myth...... the numbers dont lie........ this was a major problem for many years.... canadians coming to the US for service because the canadian healthcare system would pay for it.... granted those numbers have decreased in the past several years...... but not because care is better or faster in canada...... instead its because canada lowered the rates they are willing to pay for you to do that......... so now if you want to come to the US for care a large portion of that is coming out of your pocket....... btw theres an entire industry of insurance in Canada for care out of the country... just for this purpose...... you can buy private insurance just to travel to the US for care.... I dont think they would be in business long if you could get the same care for free at home
anywho thats just some random ramblings.... most of which probably make no sense LOL
You seem like an educated person. Sadly this part of your post is kind of nonsensical.
Do you honestly think that doctors in countries with universal health care make the same as people with no education? If so you need to check your facts. As an example on average a Canadian doctor makes about $100 000 less per year than an American doctor. This seems like quite a lot but then you factor in malpractice insurance and it starts to even out. As you said malpractice insurance for a doctor is about $100k in US vs. $10k here. So the disparity between each is only about $10k based solely on these numbers. This isn't that huge of a difference when you are talking about an average specialist salary of around $125k with $10k insurance vs $228k with $100k insurance (these are 2001 numbers. couldn't find newer data for same year between both countries).
You say that if universal health care were to be implemented that fewer people would choose to become doctors because pay would be cut, with that would bring poor service crappy doctors and large waiting lists. Do you have proof to back that up? You can't really look to Canada and claim they have long waits and crappy doctors and it's because of universal health care. We don't, we have great doctors just like you have great doctors and we have poor doctors just like you have poor doctors. Yes some places have long waits for non-emergency procedures, that has more to do with lack of specialists than anything else. Which is brought on by the seemingly large disparity in salary across boarders. As I have shown though that large disparity is largely an illusion.
Oh, I hate when people call it free. It's not free, we pay for it in our taxes.
copestag
Android Expert
you seem to be missing the point.......
lets look at some actual numbers to maybe help you understand.... keeping in mind that salaries and costs of insurance vary by state as well as type of physician
lets use a Florida OB/GYN for an example:
expected salary: $150K-$250K
avg insurance: $100K-$200K
= $50K- $150K
current govt reimbursement plans pay considerably lower rates than their normal rates....... so if we switch to a 'universal' type system do you believe their pay will increase or decrease?
so if they are making $50K and their pay decreases....... lets say by 20% which would be a conservative decrease compared to current govt reimbursement rates (which we can guess it will be a higher decrease since the goal of universal coverage would be to lower costs as much as possible)......... so now they are making $40K or if you want at the high end $120K..... so lets take the median there and say now they are making $80K...... now factor in that in order to earn that median $80K they have to goto school as a MINIMUM 11 years and as much as 16 years depending on which specific fields they study....now lets assume you went to a very cheap public school.... your average tuition for the minimum amount of schooling would be about $160K
so let me ask you....... would you spend a minimum of 11 years in school and pay a minimum of $160K for tuition alone (this doesnt include other costs) to end up making $80K a year (and thats the median, remember it could be as low as $40K a year on average).......the average manager of a convenience store in Florida earns $40K and doesnt require anything more than a high school diploma
so now... do you believe that people would be more likely to go into medicine or less likely under 'universal' healthcare in the US?
this will lead to a shortage of doctors...... and there is no proof necessary to tell you what that leads to...... common sense dictates that fewer doctors entering practice means lower quality care and longer wait times
Edit: I have to edit to concede that my last sentence may not be entirely accurate...... it is possible that some quality people grow up dreaming of when they can spend over a decade of their life being educated, at a cost that will take them the rest of their life to pay off, just so they can make the same amount of money as the guy who runs the 7/11 down the street
lets look at some actual numbers to maybe help you understand.... keeping in mind that salaries and costs of insurance vary by state as well as type of physician
lets use a Florida OB/GYN for an example:
expected salary: $150K-$250K
avg insurance: $100K-$200K
= $50K- $150K
current govt reimbursement plans pay considerably lower rates than their normal rates....... so if we switch to a 'universal' type system do you believe their pay will increase or decrease?
so if they are making $50K and their pay decreases....... lets say by 20% which would be a conservative decrease compared to current govt reimbursement rates (which we can guess it will be a higher decrease since the goal of universal coverage would be to lower costs as much as possible)......... so now they are making $40K or if you want at the high end $120K..... so lets take the median there and say now they are making $80K...... now factor in that in order to earn that median $80K they have to goto school as a MINIMUM 11 years and as much as 16 years depending on which specific fields they study....now lets assume you went to a very cheap public school.... your average tuition for the minimum amount of schooling would be about $160K
so let me ask you....... would you spend a minimum of 11 years in school and pay a minimum of $160K for tuition alone (this doesnt include other costs) to end up making $80K a year (and thats the median, remember it could be as low as $40K a year on average).......the average manager of a convenience store in Florida earns $40K and doesnt require anything more than a high school diploma
so now... do you believe that people would be more likely to go into medicine or less likely under 'universal' healthcare in the US?
this will lead to a shortage of doctors...... and there is no proof necessary to tell you what that leads to...... common sense dictates that fewer doctors entering practice means lower quality care and longer wait times
Edit: I have to edit to concede that my last sentence may not be entirely accurate...... it is possible that some quality people grow up dreaming of when they can spend over a decade of their life being educated, at a cost that will take them the rest of their life to pay off, just so they can make the same amount of money as the guy who runs the 7/11 down the street
Mr. Boom
Android Enthusiast
The Health CARE system most certainly is. The Health Insurance is not.
While i will admit that i think that Health Insurance is in need of a few tweaks, it by no means needs a major overhaul or reform or Gov't takeover.
Health CARE is still the best in the world! The two are not interchangeable like the elite left want you to think.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Wait - Doctors are paying $100K in malpractice insurance? o.0 
In Ireland doctors earn €~150K and judging by their cars and houses
, they arent paying anything near $100K in malpractice insurance
Then again taxes here were too low really :/
In Ireland doctors earn €~150K and judging by their cars and houses
, they arent paying anything near $100K in malpractice insuranceThen again taxes here were too low really :/
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
This.
If it wasn't for the american medical system the rest of the world would still be dealing withv outbreaks of malaria.
Let's take this a little bit further, and look at all the things that YOUR country isn't doing... and maybe we should stop too...
You aren't providing on site disaster relief via national military.
You aren't providing an umbrella defense for Canada and Europe.
Heck, your country isn't even really protecting Canada from invasion.
Your country isn't developing new drugs.
I mean, we could honestly go on ALL day about what Canada DOESN'T do, and the US DOES...
We could also go on all day about how maybe Canada should be doing a few things for themselves.
We could go on about how it should be illegal for American companies to sell drugs to other countries at a different price than they sell them in the US... of course, this would have the effect of basically eliminating nearly the entire drug supply for Canada and the UK. Of course, we would pay slightly more for drugs in the short term, but once Canada and the UK repealed the laws that forced the prices lower in their respective countries, the overall price would meet somewhere in the middle of where the US price is, and the Canada price is now...
We can go on about how the US should disavow protectionism. We should make it clear that we will protect no one from attack but ourselves. It would be funny to Watch Europe scramble to put together some sort of military force that would actually be useful. Of course, Canada would still feel protected by being on our border.
We can go on about how the US should stop sending our military to provide humanitarian aid. We should not spend one dollar or one American life helping another country.
Of course, if we did these things, we would save a ton of money, and actually have a fairly decent surplus... but then again you would be complaining about what we weren't spending money on... instead of our debt
Wait - Doctors are paying $100K in malpractice insurance? o.0
In Ireland doctors earn
No disaster relief? Perhaps you forget 911 Bush Thanks Canada For 9/11 Aid - CBS News
Haiti?CBC News - Canada - Disaster relief: Canada's rapid response team
and http://www.hilltimes.com/page/view/start-02-15-2010
Katrina? Canadian response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Those are a few, and don't include private sector help which is always high.
Our military doesn't provide protection? Here's a list of all peacekeeping missions Canada has been involved in since WW2 Canadian Peacekeepers - Listing of all Missions since World War II
I love when clueless people talk about our military like we are some unorganized idiots with sticks. Ask some American soldiers who have come to Canada for training or served with Canadians in war. I would bet you that not a single one would say that our military is anything but top notch. Our equipment may be shit due to crappy government policies but our soldiers are some of the best trained in the world. Saying otherwise is disrespectful to all people who have served past and present.
Not developing drugs? Here is a nice little article Medical Research - The Canadian Encyclopedia
I would bother to post more but I doubt you would even bother to read it all. You seem more interested in fighting with the OP whom seems to be on a rant more than anything else. I'm not here to defend him, I'm simply giving you the information you seem to have not bothered looking for before you made your post.
And if it wasn't for Canadian researchers you would die from diabetes without insulin. Or you could die from infection without penicillin. We could say stupid stuff like this all day. Fact of the matter is these discoveries would probably have happened anyways. So lets not get into a pissing match about who discovered what and where.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Actually my fault head was muddled after TOO MANY EXAMS
I was think of public consultants
Most of my friends who's parents are doctors are actually GP's which is a fair bit more lucrative (AFTER EXPENSES
)Its
I have to ask if you read these before you posted them...
Bush thanks Canada for helping American citizens stuck in Canada in the aftermath of 9/11.
Has nothing to do with disaster relief.
Canada sent a total of (roughly) 2000 to Haiti... the US sent 16000 Marines, and I Can't find numbers for the other branches, but all branches were involved in the Haiti Response.
The USS comfort alone has a crew of 850.
You made a token effort. You did enough to say that you did something. But you didn't provide relief for the 3 million effected by the disaster, and using that as an example of your disaster relief should be embarrassing to you.
This is what you present? This your idea of disaster relief? Do you realize how many millions would die if we left disaster relief to such pitiful attempts.
Sure, it's what you can afford. Sure, it's what you can spend. But without the US... MILLIONS would die each year because you WOULDN'T do what it takes to keep them alive.
If I was from Canada, I would honestly be ashamed to talk about disaster relief.
I would wager that our top 5 givers would outgive nearly ALL of yours.
Honestly? Seriously? I actually laughed when I read this. I will be the first to admit that Canada had some muscle back in WWII. Since the US has basically been the war deterrent, Canada and Europe have let their military's go.
Of the last 7 "peacekeeping" missions, 5 were "disaster relief", 1 was the deployment of 2,300 military personnel to Afghanistan (thanks for that btw... it would be nice if they were actually allowed to see combat, but hey... every penny counts right?), 1 was the deployment of 8 people (that's right... 8 people to Jerusalem. That's everything from 2005 to now.
2004 - 24 people in Bosnia.
2004 - The 2 people in Sudan were increased to 100.
2003 - Iraq - 1 Military "observer" assigned.
2003 - Liberia - 4 people.
2003 - Congo - 50 people + 2 aircraft.
2003 - Senegal - 1 colonel.
2001 - Afghanistan - 2000, reduced to 1000 in 2002. Good job. Way to fight a war. (by contrast the US forces are at 94,000).
I could go on, but let me end in this... congratulations... you raised 50 cents for cancer. You helped find a cure.
I will personally apologize to all 10,000 Canadian military personnel past and present....
All sarcasm aside, you think you are a world player on anything militarily? Disaster relief? Peace keeping?
I mean, you provide 2,000... The US provides 94,000. You can't accomplish anything without the US militarily.
That list of military "peacekeeping" missions is an embarrassment. Either you didn't read it, or you didn't expect me to, but utterly embarrassing that you would consider any of that "peacekeeping".
What it shows is that depending on the US to actually do the work is so ingrained in you that you think this is actually doing something.
You really didn't expect me to read that article did you...
It stated that Canada discovered insulin in 1922 and that Canada funds medical research.
Where are the DRUGS that you've discovered? I couldn't find any either.
Yep... I knew it, you didn't expect me to read the articles at all. That explains why you would actually attempt to use them as evidence of your position. I guess I can leave it at that...
If you want to actually experience what it's like to accomplish something militarily... the US military accepts non-citizens as members. It's a good way to earn your citizenship.
Bush thanks Canada for helping American citizens stuck in Canada in the aftermath of 9/11.
Has nothing to do with disaster relief.
Canada sent a total of (roughly) 2000 to Haiti... the US sent 16000 Marines, and I Can't find numbers for the other branches, but all branches were involved in the Haiti Response.
The USS comfort alone has a crew of 850.
You made a token effort. You did enough to say that you did something. But you didn't provide relief for the 3 million effected by the disaster, and using that as an example of your disaster relief should be embarrassing to you.
This is what you present? This your idea of disaster relief? Do you realize how many millions would die if we left disaster relief to such pitiful attempts.
Sure, it's what you can afford. Sure, it's what you can spend. But without the US... MILLIONS would die each year because you WOULDN'T do what it takes to keep them alive.
If I was from Canada, I would honestly be ashamed to talk about disaster relief.
I would wager that our top 5 givers would outgive nearly ALL of yours.
Honestly? Seriously? I actually laughed when I read this. I will be the first to admit that Canada had some muscle back in WWII. Since the US has basically been the war deterrent, Canada and Europe have let their military's go.
Of the last 7 "peacekeeping" missions, 5 were "disaster relief", 1 was the deployment of 2,300 military personnel to Afghanistan (thanks for that btw... it would be nice if they were actually allowed to see combat, but hey... every penny counts right?), 1 was the deployment of 8 people (that's right... 8 people to Jerusalem. That's everything from 2005 to now.
2004 - 24 people in Bosnia.
2004 - The 2 people in Sudan were increased to 100.
2003 - Iraq - 1 Military "observer" assigned.
2003 - Liberia - 4 people.
2003 - Congo - 50 people + 2 aircraft.
2003 - Senegal - 1 colonel.
2001 - Afghanistan - 2000, reduced to 1000 in 2002. Good job. Way to fight a war. (by contrast the US forces are at 94,000).
I could go on, but let me end in this... congratulations... you raised 50 cents for cancer. You helped find a cure.
I will personally apologize to all 10,000 Canadian military personnel past and present....
All sarcasm aside, you think you are a world player on anything militarily? Disaster relief? Peace keeping?
I mean, you provide 2,000... The US provides 94,000. You can't accomplish anything without the US militarily.
That list of military "peacekeeping" missions is an embarrassment. Either you didn't read it, or you didn't expect me to, but utterly embarrassing that you would consider any of that "peacekeeping".
What it shows is that depending on the US to actually do the work is so ingrained in you that you think this is actually doing something.
You really didn't expect me to read that article did you...
It stated that Canada discovered insulin in 1922 and that Canada funds medical research.
Where are the DRUGS that you've discovered? I couldn't find any either.
Yep... I knew it, you didn't expect me to read the articles at all. That explains why you would actually attempt to use them as evidence of your position. I guess I can leave it at that...
If you want to actually experience what it's like to accomplish something militarily... the US military accepts non-citizens as members. It's a good way to earn your citizenship.
Okay, I'm not interested in arguing with you at all. It's not worth my time and you obviously just want to sit there and think you are saving the world solo. That's okay. I gave minor examples because I didn't want to sit here searching to argue with you.
To everyone else I don't hate America, I hate ignorant people like bytware that seem to think without America the world would be a vast wasteland because no other country on earth seems to do anything. True Canada's contributions aren't nearly as vast as America's, but hey we only have 30 million people and (according to bytware) a crappy military of 10 000.
bytware, go on thinking Canada is a waste of space and useless country I don't care. I came in here to talk about health care and that was all. Sadly I allowed myself to be pulled into your pissing match with the OP about which country is better.
To everyone else I don't hate America, I hate ignorant people like bytware that seem to think without America the world would be a vast wasteland because no other country on earth seems to do anything. True Canada's contributions aren't nearly as vast as America's, but hey we only have 30 million people and (according to bytware) a crappy military of 10 000.
bytware, go on thinking Canada is a waste of space and useless country I don't care. I came in here to talk about health care and that was all. Sadly I allowed myself to be pulled into your pissing match with the OP about which country is better.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
erm... lets not go into our (developed world) exploitation of the third world but hey, if you think paying developing countries extortianate prices for most the things they produce well - congrats *forced smile*
_______
FYI, Canada gives more aid per capita than the US.
Ultimately though the aid is still a pitiful amount compared to how much we exploit them for....
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Actually this is a "pissing match" of where. Because without our capitalistic medical system, nobody really would have had that much motivation (due to NOT having monetary gain) to do the research in the first place.
And make no mistake all you Canadians, if the U.S. falls, Attacking Canada will be like open season. If it wasn't for the U.S. military, you guys would have been invaded and conquered already. And deep down we all know that.
I'm sorry you couldn't find a single instance where your country made a difference in the last two decades. That's not MY fault.
Useless and waste of space...? Weren't my words. My point was that you don't have to make a difference. We do that for you. Us making a difference allows you to make paltry efforts and congratulate yourselves for your efforts.
And it allows you to look down your nose at the spending of the country that makes your lifestyle possible by being the one who actually makes a difference.
I have don't dislike Canada. I have no real feelings for Canada whatsoever, but I take real offense when someone talks about our deficit, but isn't willing to step up and do what WE do for the world.
Extortionate prices? You do realize that the cost of living differs from place to place?
You do realize that you can pay someone $1 a day in some countries, and that be the best paying job around?
Do I wish that every country in the world played by the Employment rules in the US? Absolutely. China's economy would collapse though, and so would almost all third world nations. Of course, OUR economy would be a lot more prosperous, but... that would be selfish wouldn't it..
By 1 cent.
In 2002, the Canadian government gave 17 cents per person in foreign aid.
In 2002, the Canadian private citizens gave 2 cents per person in foreign aid.
In 2002, Canada gave 19 cents per person in foreign aid.
In 2002, the US government gave 13 cents per person in foreign aid.
In 2002, the US private citizens gave 5 cents per person in foreign aid.
In 2002, the US gave 18 cents per person in foreign aid.
In summary... our government gives a little more than 2/3 what your government gives, and our private citizens give 2 1/2 times what your private citizens give.
Which... puts us at about the exact same place on the map.
Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002 — Infoplease.com
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
I never said which country is better.
I have LIVED in both unlike others here that post. I said I found Canada to be BETTER for ME.
This was about health care but if you notice all byteware and "friends" seem to focus on WAR and INVASION.
Instead of trying to learn and take the better parts from other countries well as you can see they provide NO SOLUTIONS or SUGGESTIONS.
Let's do a small recap to help him on a high level. It's okay don't bother sinking down to his when he starts with the invasion stuff again.
US- MASSIVE DEBT Canada- nothing big that we don't have control over.
US- owes China TRILLIONS - Canada- nothing relatively speaking
US- always in some WAR currently in 2 looking to push for 3 with Iran Canada- NOT in any war except to keep the peace
US Reputation on the planet is LOWER than Canada's...WHY?
US- divided nation Canada- unified nation
US- BIG problems facing them locally and globally
Canada- nothing really of substance
I guess critical thinking and constructive criticism is not important to the US, in Canada we welcome constructive criticism and critical thinking because it helps us to improve or avoid pitfalls i.e. Canadian Banks are said to be the HEAVIEST regulated in the world yet when the world had a global $ meltdown the Canadian banks were untouched for the most part. Now the world is working with Canada to improve their banking system. It's funny how the "Liberal" Canada survives and thrived because of REGULATIONS put in place by a CONSERVATIVE government for the most part.
See our "Liberals" and Conservative governments ACT with a primary factor which is to put the COUNTRY and it's CITIZENS FIRST and NOT a Corporation.
Canada Owns and control it's currency BUT the US does NOT.
The Federal Reserve Is A privately Owned Corporation
^^^^written in the 90's predicting the path you are on and look at that it's pretty accurate. Now the FEDS want you to PRINT more money.
Nobody is bashing the US but you just can't handle FACTS and critical thinking with the aim of producing a "better" result vs. the situation and the things you did in the past to land you here now.
What do you think will happen when China wants their money back or will you just sell your country out to accommodate them?
Debate all you want but I think you are smart enough to know he who holds the money pulls the strings.
I am a bit curious how China manged to get a space program put together so quickly...but the US is shutting their down.
China now has the world fastest computer.
I find these things interesting because they happened in such a short amount of time. It seems to happen during the same time period when China started bailing you out.
I don't look down my nose at anything. I know what the US has done I'm ignorant. Nor have I ever said they should do more. Further more I have not once brought up any deficit or budgetary concerns related to the US.
All I was pointing out is that based on your posts you say Canada doesn't do anything I simply pointed out that you were wrong. Sure we don't spend near as much as the US, nor does any other country on the planet. But to come back and say because we (the rest of the world) doesn't spend as much as you we aren't doing anything is extreme. Wouldn't you agree?
Aid per capita was brought up how about aid based on GDP? Are we stingy? How well does foreign aid add up?
Canada 1,722 1,572 2,013 2,209 0.25 0.23 0.28 0.26
United States 9,581 10,884 12,900 15,791 0.1 0.11 0.12 0.14
All "rich" countries spend more based on GDP on aid than the US. Obviously our 7.156 billion over three years doesn't come close to your 49.156 billion but when compared based on GDP we spend roughly 0.1375% of our GDP more than you over those four years. Mind you it's far from the 0.7% that was pledged in 1992 by our nations. So in fact we both fall short of our ideal target.
I'm not against you. Your country has done many a wonderful thing. What I am against is the same thing you are. People looking at my country and making statements that are nonsensical. When you say what we provide in aid is nothing isn't exactly true now is it? Perhaps now you can see that while my country may not provide as much assistance as yours(in dollars), we do provide our "fair" amount.
I say if someone is treated for an emergency, examine their ability to pay. if their income is low, offer a discount or free treatment if they don't have adequate insurance. I would only advocate for this in life-threatening emergencies, however.
Akalon, you SOCIALIST
Mate, you do noticed that he has deflected from the original topic and got you to follow him. What was that George Carlin saying about half the people you meet are...damn I can't remember it right now.
In Canada we debate almost everything and we research the hell out of things because at the end of the day we just want what is best for the entire country. I guess you can call Canada a Conservative country with Liberal beliefs or is that a Liberal country with Conservative beliefs. See what I did there, we don't argue like you guys. We know we are here for ~80 years but we try to leave the place in better shape for the kids and not kick the can down the road for them. We act with the premise for ALL CANADIANS not some.
I was (guessing Akalon) was also trying to shed some light in the hopes that you guys would pick the better things from us to make your country stronger. I bet if we said to you 12 years ago that you NEED STRICTER REGULATIONS for your banks you would tell us to "**** off", yet you now have the wisdom of history to see WHY we made those decisions to REGULATE our banks...it's much the same discussion with Healthcare, we are saying this is what works for us, take it and improve upon it. I guess in another 12 years we will see how it turns out. I thank you for one thing, I will MAKE SURE that I do what I can to ensure CANADA reduces our debt and be stingy to ENSURE we evolve our "FREE" Healthcare system for the better.
Without health you really got nothing...right.
All the money in the world does not help you when you are flopping around on the ground from a stroke or your super duper Doctor tells you that you got 3 months at best top live, nothing can be done.
I think Canada tries to improve the QUALITY of LIFE for ALL not just some. Yes, we debate how we get it done, but we GET IT DONE even if we AGREE to take 1 step instead of two.
I would like to think all the US Soldiers that died in the many wars died because they wanted to ensure their country kept stepping forward and improving so their kids have a better life. Look at the FACTS you had a debt problem that KEPT GROWING and you are doing the SAME THING again, raising the debt ceiling by giving it a fancy economic name. Maybe it's time to try something DIFFERENT???
btw- I see the US and China are now playing the who can keep undervaluing their currency the longest. Why would you play this game with China? They already got you beat and opens the doors for other Nations to get ahead of you i.e. India, Germany, France, Russia, etc...
You do realize that prevention is cheaper than treatment?
Is it cheaper to put out a fire on the stove or wait until it engulfs the whole house? Just sayin'
You do realize what you posted seems a bit contradictory to what you wrote earlier, so you want the Rich people to pay for the poor people now..uhm isn't that a SOCIALIST idea?
Which was why the comments weren't directed AT you.
I don't think it's extreme at all.
And I get sick and tired of those who flourish in our protection taking us to task for the way we provide it.
Any time Canada wants to come out from behind our skirts, and Handle the big boy jobs... they are more than welcome.
You are able to have a military of 80,000 because we protect you. You are able to never really use that military, because we protect you.
We have a military of 1.4 million, because WE protect you.
We basically protect the entire "free" world under the umbrella of our military.
Our troops being there allows you to send yours out with the stipulation that they NOT see combat.
You aren't doing your "FAIR" amount.