I would love for you to explain to me the scientific equation/hypothesis for "the right thing to do" or perhaps equality, fairness and justice. Where do you think those concepts came from? If Hitler or the terrorists of the WTC attack simply died w/o having to pay for what they did, would you not consider that unfair?
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- Thread starter hakr100
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I would love for you to explain to me the scientific equation/hypothesis for "the right thing to do" or perhaps equality, fairness and justice. Where do you think those concepts came from? If Hitler or the terrorists of the WTC attack simply died w/o having to pay for what they did, would you not consider that unfair?
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
As a christian, I dont get virgins, nor milk and honey. Heaven is a world the good got to. I might go there, or I might not, it depends, but it is not my say. And just because you do not believe in my god or any god, doesnt mean you are any lesser than me, its your free will. I have no say on it, nor do you have no say on me. Were just having a discussion, so dont think Im trying to convert you or anything.
RAND0M1ZER
Member
My point exactly there was a time in history when people believed in Zeus. Now that ancient Greek mythology has been proven by science to be wrong and people would laugh at you if you said you believed in Zeus.
Furthermore, the age of the universe has been proven scientifically and so has the age of fossils on Earth. Both contradict the Bible which is the sole basis of the christian faith.
Ok not sure I get your example but you are saying that any god would know the laws of our universe and could still affect us as long as he obided by them? Makes sense.
However everything has to have a cause and effect. Example:
A gust of wind comes and pushes my book on the floor. Now you cannot argue that God did this, the wind was a result of the weather and different pressure systems.
RAND0M1ZER
Member
You don't need a god to provide morality.
Dogs know the difference between right and wrong, but they have no religion or god.
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
Yes everything does have a cause and effect. You are right, but what if that deity just made the Universe and left us here to see what we do, how we act, to test our faith in something we do not see or feel or smell or anything, the only connection he gives you is spiritualy, through belief.
Isthmus
Android Expert
and there you go making assumptions and spouting yet more stupidity. You say "Us Christians" as if you are speaking to someone who is not. FYI I've had 15 years of Jesuit education including 3 years of formal study of comparative theology, so get off the high horse before you fall of. the point, young man, is that critical thinking is a practiced skill. nowhere is this more the case than in written form. Critical thinking also requires knowledge, research and some degree of practical and/or theoretical experience, all of which are in short supply to one degree or another when you are in your early teens. This doesn't mean that you know nothing, but it does mean that you should consider flapping at the lips a little less and listening to others a little more. you might not agree with what they have to say, but you just might learn something. Right now you are making an ass out of yourself and you're not validating your point.
Oh and before you start saying that I'm anti-religion, understand this, critical thinking is a crucial skill not only in science, but also in philosophy and theological studies. practicing that skill just might help you make your point next time.
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
I said us Christians, Christians, believers. What, you thought I meant that only the Christian faith is perfect? And I dont even know if you are Christian or not, but that wasnt my point, it was that nobody is perfect, and that neither believers nor atheists are perfect. And yes, I do learn something from this discussion, I learned a lot. I looked up a lot of facts about science on the internet, to make an intelligent post, not one that is ignorant, at first I could hardly understand the Universe the big bang, look back to the first page, then I understood it better, from listening to other atheists and what they said, I stilll believe in my God, but what? You think I see you as lower than me? No, you can take it, I dont care, your better than me, that means nothing to me. Im discussing for fun, because I like to, and so I can learn, maybe I might not agree with you, or maybe I might not be the most polite person.
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
I do think it's unfair, but what's your point? If they lived they'd deserve to be punished. Just like anybody who does wrong I think there should be some appropriate punishment, whether that be material/financial loss, or the loss of liberty or life is another argument; but the punishment would not be an eternity in hell, much as in some instances the idea of such availability of punishment would give me some personal comfort.
Reasoned human thought, discussion and mutual agreement in society as to how it wanted to conduct itself; but not from God, or religion by association.
I don't think there is a scientific equation per se; but in the style of David Brent I'd say something like;
Code:=Sum((Reason,♥,Mutual Agreement of Social Values,Respect,Discussion)-Fairies(/Often)*∞☃∧∀)>religion
Where snowman is a variable... maths isn't my strong point.
Yes but these reasoned human thoughts might have been influeced by religion, as our Judicial system is. It reflects on a lesson learned form the Puritans (Salem Witch trials). As I said before, religion without science is blind.
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
So your idea of fun is to state that atheists are evil, or was that just a bit of fun? Part of me really hopes you're just a pathetic troll, and don't really believe all this drivel you post, and while I've no doubt you are a troll, I fear you actually believe some of it to
Where do I say atheists are evil, and by fun I dont mean I have fun saying your the devil and you evil. By fun I mean I like to discuss, I enjoy it. I learn from it. I did say that i see you as equal to me did I not, I dont hate you for being an atheist, I just disagree, just as you disagree with me for believing in a god.
Jammy
Android Expert
Personally, I accept Deism as a possibility and I expect many others here do. However, what you are saying is ridiculous.
How do you know that any of these religions aren't correct and yours is wrong? Your argument can be used for any one of those religions. Why is yours correct?
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
I never state the Christian god do I? I say a deity, as in there might be a god out there. (Although, I am a Catholic)
Jammy
Android Expert
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
Because thats just my belief. Ive followed it all my life, my mom, granny, great grandma,etc were Catholics. Although Im no devout Catholic, I prefer to do whats right than what the Catholic religion says, do you really think I think the pope is immoral like literally? To me hes immoral in faith, his faith never dies. But he can die, he is no god afterall, he is just like us.
OrderFromChaos
Well-Known Member
I did not such thing. Please tell me which post I did that in.
You completely missed the point I was trying to make about doing yourself and your religion a disservice by lumping people together. The same holds true for others as well, this is not just directed at you.
BTW, I have read every post in this thread, so once again, please stop making assumptions.
RAND0M1ZER
Member
Our laws are alot more sepearated from religion than you think. The bible has alot of things that we ignore.
Sure we give credit to the bible for our laws against murder and stealing yet we ignore it when it comes to beating our wives or homosexuality.
OrderFromChaos
Well-Known Member
What I placed in bold emphasis is what really stood out to me, and which is a problem (not directed at you WADude necessarily but people in general). You just described information retrieval, not knowledge formation. Information retrieval is nothing more than regurgitating facts, whereas knowledge formation is gathering all the information and using it for critical thinking.
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
Then I must of had misunderstood, I was making assumptions, I will accept that. I just that you meant that I was going around judging people for their beliefs, when judging is against mine. But my bad.
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
So absolutely no real reason to be Catholic other than mommy told you to be, and you can't think of any better reason for anything other than an invisible God made it all. I wonder if your mommy had told you that a turtle called keith made the universe out of fairy dust whether you'd be arguing that point right now against Catholics?
I don't like making assumptions, but I'm going to assume you do actually know the difference between immoral and immortal, and that you're just confused them in your post; 'cause otherwise you're not making any sense... again/still.
Oooops, I messed up. I meant immortal, not immoral, WTF was I thinking?
But like you inherit your moms ways and parents look, I inherit my parents religion, I mean, they are a big influence to me. But I will believe what I want, and you can believe what you want. This is a discussion, not a serious mental problem that I have. Gods not a fairy, hes God. Maybe to you he is, the same way that to the Universe, you are nohing. (yes, I just called you a zero to the left, as you indirectly call my mom, an idiot)
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
WAdude
Android Enthusiast
Your mixing up my words, good one. I said is that what you believe in, that you are nothing, because by being an atheist, then in your belief you are nothing. I did not call you nothing. I said that in your belief you are nothing, thats why I choose to be a believer. Good try though, although I did call you a zero to the left, but that was for indirectly saying that my moms an idiot.