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Malaysia Airlines tragedies

BRAINZ2013 said:
Yes the temp. Would cause everyone to pass out . that's why they ask you to keep the mask on if that happens so you wont pass out. I have a question if the auto pilot was engaged and the plane is flying itself wouldn't that send data and speed and aircraft where about is . I am so lost how you build a aircraft and tell everyone how you can track it . and how you can turn off tracking devices . but dammm so funny how police cars and other things we have you can track and also have extra security for tracking . I think they should make something that will kick on if the transponder and acars system was to shut down alerting military radar so a team of f16 jets can check the where about are . this can be prevented if we use our BRAINZ
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Please review the two links I've given earlier from pilots.

The internet is alive with, "if XYZ can do it, surely an airplane could."

Not true.

If signals were lost because, for example, antenna or transmitter power was lost then switching from Box A to Magical Box B is not going to get the signal out.

If for example, safety circuits turned things off (fire or potential fire) they wouldn't allow Magical Box B to be switched on either.

And because of fires and other scenarios that have already happened, they build airplanes so that pilots can turn off any significant system - and by safety regulations, Magical Box B would probably be included right after it was invented.

Next - autopilot doesn't tell anyone except the pilot what it's doing.

Finally - when the data recorders are recovered, and what happened is known, that will be the time to see what, if anything, can be improved.

Lots of brains have been looking at flight safety, beginning with the flight path that the Wright brothers took for their first flight (no fooling).

You will never be able to completely prevent this sort of problem unless you ground all aircraft. Refer to my earlier post about what happens when you build a better mousetrap or make things more idiot-proof.

Sorry.

PS - fwiw, I've been through and inside every part of a Boeing 707, from the bare metal outside through each and every layer and subsystem leading to the interior as well as a number of other vehicles while working for the USAF. I've not been through a 777. And I am not a pilot.

I'll continue to make every effort to identify where I'm stating opinions.

Very little of what we're facing here involves known facts. :(
 
Missing jet reveals uncomfortable Malaysian truths

The mysterious disappearance of a Boeing 777 with 239 people aboard would test any government, but Malaysia's is particularly strained because its elite are accustomed to getting an easy ride. Decades in power and a pliant media have cushioned them from scrutiny.

Its civilian and military leaders have struggled to provide answers from Day One of the crisis, when it took several hours to even declare the plane missing. They said early on that the plane may have doubled back, but took days to say it was military radar that suggested that and days more to confirm it.

...

"In Malaysian political culture, they are not used to answering questions straight and honestly," said Bridget Welsh, a political scientist from the Singapore Management University. "They are used to 'government knows best for government,' and have been very slow in realizing this is not a Malaysia crisis - this has global effects."
 
I think this quote, from the article Early linked in post #272, is the most succinct summary I've found:

The consistent theme in the mystery of this flight has been very little data, and the exact nature of that scant data is vague and changing.
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e.g. claims yesterday about the sequence of voice communications and system shutdowns have been contradicted today.

If/when the flight data and cockpit voice recorders are found then we'll know what happened. Until then, it's just a mountain of speculation.
 
Lawmaker: Missing airliner may have landed in southeast Asia, for use as ‘weapon’ | Fox News

Fox is saying something I was thinking. If the plan was to steal the plane, Homeland Security is saying it could be being outfitted as a weapon. Interestingly enough or sadly enough, the article also invokes Amelia Earhart, as I did.

Let's say, for argument's sake that the plane was stolen for terrorism. DON'T WE HAVE ENOUGH CHAOS IN THE WORLD ALREADY??? We don't need more, please and thank you.
 
List of theories in order of decreasing probability -

Gravity keeps you from floating away from the surface of the Earth.

Twinkies are actually food.

Anything with Bigfoot.

Anything with MH370 and the words likely or probably.
 
EarlyMon said:
List of theories in order of decreasing probability -

Gravity keeps you from floating away from the surface of the Earth.

Twinkies are actually food.

Anything with Bigfoot.

Anything with MH370 and the words likely or probably.
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^ One of the several reasons I love this man. :p
 
Stuntman said:
Here's an interesting theory about the missing plane: Keith Ledgerwood — Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?

The author speculates that the missing plane avoided detection by flying right behing another Boeing 777 as it flies through India and other places. It would explain the erratic maneuvers it made.
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There is a few problems with that theory. Although it is possible to fly in the radar shadow of the other plane, it is only possible at certain angles with respect to the radar installation. I don't believe those countries are in the habit of giving out the location of their military radar locations, and that would make it very very difficult to accomplish.
 
I remember once seeing a episode on the science channel about some new satellite technology that is similar to google earth except that its always streaming and RECORDING certain locations around the globe in realtime. With the ability to zoom as far as to see a person waving. Something out of the movie "enemy of the state". Of course it is semi classified but it makes you wonder if governments spy satellites were tracking the plane as soon as it was considered missing.
 
Codegerm said:
There is a few problems with that theory. Although it is possible to fly in the radar shadow of the other plane, it is only possible at certain angles with respect to the radar installation. I don't believe those countries are in the habit of giving out the location of their military radar locations, and that would make it very very difficult to accomplish.
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If you want to be technical about it, stop at the popular notion of the day that military radar for any country in that part of the world has coverage anything like military radar in the US.

The very idea that those are regions of airtight military radar because a few of them have nukes is just silly. And I use the word silly kindly.

It's another fiction of the press and self-proclaimed experts with zero knowledge of the territories and their capabilities that feeds the national pride of a few nations that are more than happy to advertise the opposite.

A few regions in a few countries have effective military radar coverage, within certain parameters.

Nothing more.

It's a sand castle.
 
That would be difficult, would have to be very few locations for constant gap free recoding. observation satellites would have a polar orbit so that it could photograph every area, using the earth rotation to help in positioning. geostationary ones are for communications. Does Malaysia have a geostationary spy satellite parked over it, because it is such a hotbed of terrorist activity? I am not saying it is impossible. I could recognize the ladder on top of my company vehicle in the parking lot where I lived, using Google earth, and that was pretty darn cool. I don't think it would be likely that they were watching the plane as it flew along though.
 
EarlyMon said:
If you want to be technical about it, stop at the popular notion of the day that military radar for any country in that part of the world has coverage anything like military radar in the US.

The very idea that those are regions of airtight military radar because a few of them have nukes is just silly. And I use the word silly kindly.

It's another fiction of the press and self-proclaimed experts with zero knowledge of the territories and their capabilities that feeds the national pride of a few nations that are more than happy to advertise the opposite.

A few regions in a few countries have effective military radar coverage, within certain parameters.

Nothing more.

It's a sand castle.
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzing!
 
EarlyMon said:
If you want to be technical about it, stop at the popular notion of the day that military radar for any country in that part of the world has coverage anything like military radar in the US.

The very idea that those are regions of airtight military radar because a few of them have nukes is just silly. And I use the word silly kindly.

It's another fiction of the press and self-proclaimed experts with zero knowledge of the territories and their capabilities that feeds the national pride of a few nations that are more than happy to advertise the opposite.

A few regions in a few countries have effective military radar coverage, within certain parameters.

Nothing more.

It's a sand castle.
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I am not saying every country does, and yes there are gaps, but the fact remains that it is still difficult, and not likely for them to know exactly where those installations and gaps would be. I did not say impossible.
 
Codegerm said:
I am not saying every country does, and yes there are gaps, but the fact remains that it is still difficult, and not likely for them to know exactly where those installations and gaps would be. I did not say impossible.
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India has 9 air defense zones that are well known and their gaps have been published in the open press there from time to time. Add to that the fact that most everything they have is detailed in defense publications and that they've got a new AWACS program in chaos.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/indian-awacs-moving-forward-on-2-fronts-04855/

The Indians say it's impossible - in the same report citing one of their gaps and that civilian radar doesn't bother above 25,000 feet -

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...airspace-Kolkata-ATC/articleshow/32091364.cms

But I guess difficulty is a matter of opinion so I'll stop there. :o
 
Codegerm said:
I am not saying every country does, and yes there are gaps, but the fact remains that it is still difficult, and not likely for them to know exactly where those installations and gaps would be. I did not say impossible.
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At least the part about how the plane escaped detection seems plausible. Flight information he gathered is available to anyone. Someone who knew the schedule of public flights in the area could possibly formulate a plan to fly the plane out of the area and avoid detection should this method actually work. The fact that another 777 was flying out of the same area at roughly the same time seem to support this theory.

The flight plan would only be one piece of the plan to hijack a 777. There would be other parts of the plan that I would assume would not be obtained through public knowledge. Finding gaps in radar coverage over certain countries would be one. Another part would be how to actually secure control of a 777 in light of the additional security measures taken over the past couple of decades. It seems that the latest evidence strongly supports someone with aviation experience secured control of the plane and made attempts to hide its location. Whoever planned securing control of the plane and hiding it is likely going to have a plan for the entire journey of the plane which may include possible known areas where radar coverage is poor.

Right now, no one knows for sure what the motive is of the people who took control of the plane. If the motive involves the immediate destruction of the plane, hiding its final location would seem to be a lot of trouble. If the purpose is to use this plane for some future purpose, then we have something else to be alarmed about.

If in fact the people who took the plane are able to hide it in the shadow of another, then it is also possible, they can use the same technique to hide it again. It would be a cause for alarm if the hijackers decide to use this same technique to bring the plane close to a population centre intent on causing significant destruction and loss of life.

This story is starting to make the rounds on the internet now. The latest info from the satellite ping showed two arcs where the plane likely was when it sent its last ping. I wonder if experts would be looking into this and would be able to collaborate the several satellite pings with the flight path that this hobbyist thought the plane took. If the arcs from the satellite pings during the hours that the plane was still in the air correspond to the flight of the other 777, it would lend more evidence to support this theory.
 
This story is now hitting on the internet cause the way the aircraft moved with the sharp turns show hijacking but keep in mind in some areas over seas they have no fly zones and if flown can be shot down . and its no way a plane was hijacked and just plowed into the ocean and didn't leave a mark. And so many stories are being told everyone is confused. I know I am but will say I think that they may landed and the team hijackers maybe testing out our technology. To tell you the truth I want to see this new submarine they have coming to Australia .
 
Stuntman said:
There would be other parts of the plan that I would assume would not be obtained through public knowledge. Finding gaps in radar coverage over certain countries would be one.
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It takes more than Google.

It takes a subscription to Janes Defence Weekly and you also have to look through the Janes handbooks. You might even have to buy some drinks in the target country.

I'm not surprised that the internet is going for a theory on how to defeat military and civilian radar by someone with no training or experience in that art or intelligence and incapable of knowing where to look for data.

The whole thing of shadowing another plane to avoid detection was already done in several spy movies (I remember seeing it in the 60s and 70s) so now it's a real possibility? And a unique idea?

OK.

Anything is possible.
 
Here's a rebuttal to the hijack theory: MH 370: New Theory Is Pure Genius. Almost.#

The problem with the hijack theory is finding a place to land it at night which requires a big runway amongst other logistical issues if this plane is to be kept intact. It is plausible to hide the plane in flight, but finding a place to land it in one piece and keep it hidden would be extremely difficult. The article suggests that pilot suicide is the cause and the pilot who did it may want to make sure there is no trace of the plane to be found.
 
EarlyMon said:
I'm not surprised that the internet is going for a theory on how to defeat military and civilian radar by someone with no training or experience in that art or intelligence and incapable of knowing where to look for data.
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I've been doing that with Tom Clancy novels for years. No need for the internet:rolleyes:
 
Maybe the aircraft is being used as a test subject for invisibility the same way The*U.S. Navy*destroyer escortUSS*Eldridge was used for the Philadelphia experiment.
 
My money is on the plane landing safely on some ignored island with 239 asphyxiated passengers and a perfectly healthy crew, at least most of them. I haven't bet yet on why this happened or what happens next. My money is not on some over-engineered suicide.
 
I agree with you cause it was midmorning and they had 7 hours of fuel and they went off at 0140 hrs or around that time that leaves 6hours . and may explain how the flew and made sharp turns wasn't on coarse but made it back to land
 
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