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Microsoft gearing to stop Linux, going beyond Mac lock-in

mikedt said:
Could you imagine buying a new car which came with a CD player that made it go 50-60% slower and then after 30 days the CD player wanted $100 bucks to keep it working? ... now to me, that's like a new PC with the Norton or McAfee trial bloat.
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I hate the free Norton. I have yet to install it or click Yes when it pops up every day. Like the crappy Best Buy application, I cannot get rid of it. I'll deal with these issues for now, but why should I have to?

I generally agree with many comments about this issue.
 
You can blame that on MS.(popularity or ease of programming) When 98SE was popular - almost ever damn AV wanted/needed IE to work. McAfee, Norton, you name it. I only found 2 that didn't. One was Panda, the other Eset. MS bought Panda. I stuck with Eset. It used winsock.dll.
Now Eset makes an AV for everything. Even Linux. I use it since I download for Windows machines.

I had bought a shell service that hid IE very effectively. I wasn't about to change for McAfee when I had other options. Annoyances.com had it.

Banks did the same. You had to use IE for any internet banking. That eventually changed and you can now use FF. But Opera, Safari, and Chrome are not supported.
Chrome will work, but don't ask any questions.
 
That's largely because, for some time, IE dominated the browser world. It still has a pretty good sized market share though Chrome and FF have chipped away at it by putting out superior products. I know quite a few people who use IE as their browser. I think the more clueless people are, the more apt they are to use it as it's already there.

I seem to recall that they did a study one time that showed that people usually only install 4-5 programs on their computer that didn't come with it. I'm too lazy to google it up though. I think that's the main reason for all the bundled software. Yes, you could go out to McAfee and download their AV program and install it if you really wanted it. Most people won't. McAfee misses out on all those sales. If they put the software on the computer pre-installed, then people go, "Awesome!! I don't have to download an AV program!!! This is great!!!" That's the theory any way.
 
I go the other way. I do read before installing or purchasing. The problem is that some software companies put a lot of the requirements on a piece of paper IN THE BOX!

I'm having fun experimenting with software from the repository in Ubuntu.

We had McAfee at one point. I got tired of those large downloads on dial-up. With 98Lite, I also didn't have IE. Eset is fast. When on dial-up this is appreciated.

I thought a lot of the interactive stuff went through Active-X and that was the problem. No other browser supported it. I remember all security forums telling everyone to secure IE at the start of the heavy virus infections.
 
Bob Maxey said:
So those flight controllers, perhaps a hundred different versions of the mouse, countless keyboards, Zunes, webcams, Xbox 360 and related peripherals come from what, magic forests?

I think MS makes a hell of a lot of hardware. Depending on how you define "manufacturer."

Apple does not make phones or iPads; they pay someone else to make them.

Many manufacturers did not make what most people think they made. We made Newton and other modems for them. Palm did not manufacture Palm Pilots . . . we made them. RIO did not make MP3 players, we made them. Most laptop manufacturers (that make hardware) did not make their PCMCIA modems, we made them. Almost all of them, actually.

How do you define manufacturer? I think MS either owns factories or they use a sub-contractor, just like Apple. Does Apple own factories? If so they are a hardware manufacturer. If not, they are like MS and nobody makes hardware.

Both companies "make" hardware as well as operating systems. About all MS does not seem to make is computers. Or do they?

Clarify your point please.
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My point was.... They are not making the PC's that Windows is installed on. Without getting into technicalities, Apple makes the PC's that OS X is installed on.

So I could understand something like this from Apple.
 
jroc said:
My point was.... They are not making the PC's that Windows is installed on. Without getting into technicalities, Apple makes the PC's that OS X is installed on.

So I could understand something like this from Apple.
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Apple doesn't make the PC's o.O
 
Apple is probably having stuff made in China. It's public dirty laundry with the stink about working conditions where the Ipad is made.

I'll bet other "American" companies do the same. (These sell Windows machines)

If Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung do it - they are based in the East anyway.
 
jroc said:
My point was.... They are not making the PC's that Windows is installed on. Without getting into technicalities, Apple makes the PC's that OS X is installed on.

So I could understand something like this from Apple.
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More correctly Apple contracts and sources the construction of it's products to overseas companies. Personally I don't consider any company that utilizes these practices to be a real manufacturer, Microsoft included.
 
When we say that company X "makes" the PC we're saying that they control the manufacturing process. Saying that they don't literally own the manufacturing plant and pay the employees out of their own check book is quibbling about semantics. Apple makes their PCs. Microsoft does not. Both of those are accurate statements. Apple controls the entire manufacturing process for it's computers. Microsoft doesn't.
 
A.Nonymous said:
When we say that company X "makes" the PC we're saying that they control the manufacturing process. Saying that they don't literally own the manufacturing plant and pay the employees out of their own check book is quibbling about semantics. Apple makes their PCs. Microsoft does not. Both of those are accurate statements. Apple controls the entire manufacturing process for it's computers. Microsoft doesn't.
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Clearly, you have never worked in the manufacturing industry. I see very little difference between Apple and Microsoft. Unless Apple owns the factory where their products are manufacturing and MS ditto, they both use contract manufacturers.
 
Memes survive after things change.

FWIW, here's some fun history - microsoft's timeline from 1975 - 1990 and The Mothership Apple Corporate Timeline

And in anticipation of the inevitable references to Foxconn and working conditions to follow shortly - Your iPhone has to be made In China, and Apple can?t absolve your guilt (if you have any) – MacDailyNews - Welcome Home


Things are cheaper because of Asian manufacturing - neither a political nor social statement, just an economic reality.

So, Apple and Microsoft are said to either produce, manufacture or make things, depending on the circle talking. All I know is that the one thing they make in quantity is money.

I do think it's safe to say that all Apple hardware is made to Apple's exact specifications - but then again - isn't most PC hardware influenced by Microsoft's hardware dictates, at minimum, as supported by their developer program for peripheral makers?
 
Bob Maxey said:
Clearly, you have never worked in the manufacturing industry. I see very little difference between Apple and Microsoft. Unless Apple owns the factory where their products are manufacturing and MS ditto, they both use contract manufacturers.
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By that logic, you can't say that Boeing makes airplanes. They outsource the manufacturing of all kinds of airplane parts and components to all kinds of different companies and, while the process is subject to QC controls that Boeing has put in place, they don't own those companies. They basically glue together the pre-assembled parts in their plant.

If I tell someone, "This computer was made by Dell." I don't mean that each and every component was assembled in a Dell owned factory by an employee who was paid out of Dell's checkbook. I mean that Dell controlled the manufacturing process from start to finish. We're quibbling over semantics.
 
I've had to provide weapons oversight functions at Boeing.

Boeing makes airplanes.

Their airplanes are far from glued together from pieces made elsewhere.
 
EarlyMon said:
I've had to provide weapons oversight functions at Boeing.

Boeing makes airplanes.

Their airplanes are far from glued together from pieces made elsewhere.
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I have also been there, Early. Lots of activity for a place that does not build planes. Extending the Boeing example, then, I guess, no company makes anything.
 
I do work for many companies that make components and pre-fab metal pieces for Boeing, Learjet, Cessna, etc............ None of those companies make all their components in house. There are many parts of the production process that are outsources to other companies.
 
A.Nonymous said:
I do work for many companies that make components and pre-fab metal pieces for Boeing, Learjet, Cessna, etc............ None of those companies make all their components in house. There are many parts of the production process that are outsources to other companies.
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Yup.

Not sure if there are any manufacturers that make 100% of everything they use. We can stretch these silly analogies too far and eventually, like I said earlier, nobody makes nuttin.
 
Once upon a time, you coud visit a Ford plant in Detroit and see vertical manufacturing - raw ore, coal and other raw materials came in at one end of the complex, and cars rolled out the other end. Very, very impressive.

Vertical manufacturing hasn't been reasonable for a LONG time and absolutely isn't for quite a few electronics products.

And there were very, very, very few vertical manufacturers in industrial history, anyway.
 
EarlyMon said:
Once upon a time, you coud visit a Ford plant in Detroit and see vertical manufacturing - raw ore, coal and other raw materials came in at one end of the complex, and cars rolled out the other end. Very, very impressive.

Vertical manufacturing hasn't been reasonable for a LONG time and absolutely isn't for quite a few electronics products.

And there were very, very, very few vertical manufacturers in industrial history, anyway.
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I think I am a vertical manufacturer, EarlyMon. I handle design, layout, structure; I create each letter and number and I assemble them as required.

I ultimately manufacture a file that I ship to my customer. Shipping is handled in-house; I own the delivery mechanism. Repairs are 100% in-house as well.

Wow, I have impressed even myself.
 
a.nonymous said:
i do work for many companies that make components and pre-fab metal pieces for boeing, learjet, cessna, etc............ None of those companies make all their components in house. There are many parts of the production process that are outsources to other companies.
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does peter pan make peanut butter or is the nuts on contract :d
 
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