Microsoft gearing to stop Linux, going beyond Mac lock-in

[argedion]

It's a known fact that Microsoft can do anything they please with the Software known as "Windows" its their system. However I think that by messing with the Hardware or even requiring that access be given to a part of the hardware for the sole purpose of locking anything I think is going beyond any type of licence agreements. That is just down right sabotage. Preventing me the ability to add any other system to my computer as I see fit for my uses should be considered illegal. It is not up to Microsoft to prevent My Computer from getting rootkits or any other kind of code. That responsibility rest solely on me. Along with tablets and smart phones this kind of Corporate Bullying is exactly why people are using computers less and less these days. My wife uses her computer to play a few games on facebook, do some emails, look up recipes, and chat or post on facebook. All of which she can do from a tablet or her phone. (well maybe not the facebook games on her phone small screen) She probably represents most of the Computer users beyond us who are a bit more geeky. I think such an action as this demands the push to open source and for us to demand that open source system when we buy our next computers from the OEMs

 

[Member243850]

The relevance? Both are measures taken for "security" (which really isn't secure) that undermine our freedom of choice.

You are correct...

 

[zuben el genub]

I don't think security lit the fuse under MS tail. They used to allow computers to be shipped with all extensions allowed - including Active-X. Some got wise and started using other security companies which lost MS some control.

In 98SE heyday, almost every damn security software had to have IE to install. There were 2 exceptions - Panda and Eset. Eset used winsock. MS bought Panda.

I've read that Office will now be subscription and online.

MS is also going to update IE6 on every machine whether you want it or not. This will affect some companies that use special software designed around 6.

There have been articles posted that MS wants to lock you into their system to control everything, even your appliances.

I think MS is more scared of Apple's domination. The Zune didn't make it, older Windows phones never did as well as Android and Iphone. CE was divided with Palm.
Most of the 3rd world used Nokia/Symbian.

Remains to be seen how this PC/Tablet/Phone one system will work for MS.
Give you odds that hackers and tweakers are already at work.

 

[A.Nonymous]

It's a known fact that Microsoft can do anything they please with the Software known as "Windows" its their system. However I think that by messing with the Hardware or even requiring that access be given to a part of the hardware for the sole purpose of locking anything I think is going beyond any type of licence agreements. That is just down right sabotage. Preventing me the ability to add any other system to my computer as I see fit for my uses should be considered illegal. It is not up to Microsoft to prevent My Computer from getting rootkits or any other kind of code. That responsibility rest solely on me. Along with tablets and smart phones this kind of Corporate Bullying is exactly why people are using computers less and less these days. My wife uses her computer to play a few games on facebook, do some emails, look up recipes, and chat or post on facebook. All of which she can do from a tablet or her phone. (well maybe not the facebook games on her phone small screen) She probably represents most of the Computer users beyond us who are a bit more geeky. I think such an action as this demands the push to open source and for us to demand that open source system when we buy our next computers from the OEMs

Microsoft is frequently blasted and criticized for the ammount of malware and viruses on it's platform. It's the biggest platform in the world. Thus it gets attacked all the time. Proponents of other OSes tell people to switch all the time to escape from the malware and the viruses. It's a big, big problem on the Windows platform. Look at all the botnets running around out there. How many of those bots are Windows? I'd bet it's the vast majority of them. People won't take responsibility for protecting their own computers. They should, but they won't. Instead, they run no AV at all and then get pissed at Microsoft when they get infected. It's the same thing as people who don't do any maintenance on their cars and scream at GM when something breaks.

I don't think security lit the fuse under MS tail. They used to allow computers to be shipped with all extensions allowed - including Active-X. Some got wise and started using other security companies which lost MS some control.

Not strictly true. Someone started using all those extensions to exploit the OS as it gained a bigger and bigger market share.

I've read that Office will now be subscription and online.

There's currently an online, subscription only version of Office. It's basically Microsoft's answer to Google Docs. MS is losing some of it's Office share to Google as some businesses are moving to Google Docs instead of Office. Microsoft's cloud version of Office is just their way to compete with that. They still offer a locally installed version that is much more full featured. I've tried the cloud version of Office. IMO, it's as limited as Google Docs is, but it depends on your usage of the product.

MS is also going to update IE6 on every machine whether you want it or not. This will affect some companies that use special software designed around 6.

This is not true either. This will only happen if you have automatic updates turned on which a lot of businesses don't because they manage updates themselves. They're also providing update blocking kits for businesses who want to block this update.

There have been articles posted that MS wants to lock you into their system to control everything, even your appliances.

No doubt true. The same could be said for Apple, Sony and many, many, many other OEMs selling an eco-system model.

I think MS is more scared of Apple's domination. The Zune didn't make it, older Windows phones never did as well as Android and Iphone. CE was divided with Palm.
Most of the 3rd world used Nokia/Symbian.

Not sure of the point. Apple doesn't dominate the desktop OS world. MS does. And it's by a pretty large margin as well.

 

[EarlyMon]

Dominating the desktop market only means that the potential for growth is limited and measures must be taken to retain that market share.

Apple accumulated greater cash reserves than any other company and they did it primarily with iDevices.

Forget ecosystem. Microsoft wants the mobile market in a big way, it's purely growth potential for them. Key to their strategy will be integration.

They want Android's share and they want to match or surpass the iPhone / Mac integration for ease of file sharing between mobile and desktop. They clearly don't want Win8 phones flashed to another OS.

And this strikes me as a strategic move to accomplish these goals for both battlefields.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Dominating the desktop market only means that the potential for growth is limited and measures must be taken to retain that market share.

Apple accumulated greater cash reserves than any other company and they did it primarily with iDevices.

Forget ecosystem. Microsoft wants the mobile market in a big way, it's purely growth potential for them. Key to their strategy will be integration.

They want Android's share and they want to match or surpass the iPhone / Mac integration for ease of file sharing between mobile and desktop. They clearly don't want Win8 phones flashed to another OS.

And this strikes me as a strategic move to accomplish these goals for both battlefields.

Comparing Apple to Microsoft is like comparing apples to oranges IMO. Apple is a hardware company. They make their money selling hardware. Microsoft is a software company. They make their money selling software. Their mobile strategies are going to be completely different. Apple wants iOS on only one device because that's how they make their money off hardware. Microsoft sells their software therefore they want it everywhere on every piece of hardware they can get it on. (Side note - if you buy a computer that has Windows pre-installed, MS already has your money. Why would they care what you did with said computer at that point.) Google is an advertising company so they make their OS freely available to anyone to do virtually whatever they want with it. Google just wants the ad revenue.

How many phones out there are actually flashed to a different OS than what they were running originally? Sure, many people run custom Android ROMS, but it's still Android.

 

[9to5cynic]

Sure, if you think Aristotle was a dumbass, that might seem like a valid point he presented...

Lmao laughing my ass off. Which means I found his statement funny.
Very nice may have thrown you off, but it simply was in response to his reply.

 

[EarlyMon]

You can compare any company to any company at any time using simple metrics.

The stock exchange does exactly that and they do it every day.

Apple was once on the verge of bankruptcy and now they have more money than anyone except Exxon Mobile -

Apple has more cash than the U.S. Treasury - Los Angeles Times

Apple's Form 10-K Reveals Over $80 Billion In Cash

But what if they did have it in cash? What could Apple do with that $81.5 billion? They could pay for the U.S. to gather intelligence for one year, or fund the National Cancer Institute for almost sixteen years, or send over four-hundred thousand people to space.

That's more money than Microsoft.

That used to be the other way around, between Microsoft and Apple.

Apple, Inc. used to be called Apple Computer, Inc. and the shift reflected their transition from beyond hardware to integrated software services (music and movies are software, btw).

And neither you nor I have clue one what Microsoft's mobile device strategy is moving forward. I have long predicted that Microsoft is interested in buying Nokia, no one knows if that may yet happen.

Companies care about making money. When they have enough of it, a hardware company can figure out software. If you think Microsoft can't figure out hardware, I'd say you're wrong.

By the way, who made or makes the Zune, the Microsoft keyboard, the Microsoft mouse, the Xbox or the Kinnect?

The idea that Apple is a hardware company and Microsoft is a software company is about 12 years out of date, my friend. I used to make this same mistake.

PS - You can run Android on a Windows phone, the HTC Touch Pro. For now.

Sure, if you think Aristotle was a dumbass, that might seem like a valid point he presented...

I think Aristotle was a total dumbass and his teachings were used by the Church to keep us in the dark ages for centuries.

Nothing opposes the scientific method like Aristotlean thinking.

I may need to start another thread proving just what a dumbass Aristotle was.

 

[Sulfur]

The relevance? Both are measures taken for "security" (which really isn't secure) that undermine our freedom of choice.

It doesn't undermine your freedom of choice in anyway, nor is the situation you presented remotely analogous.

Note your contradiction about security. If it doesn't help the security, than installing linux on these particular devices shouldn't be an issue. However it will help security, but it is by no means a magical solution. Just the next step forward. Win8 will also have MSE built in to defender, if you didn't know. Exciting stuff, the biggest step since XP SP2.

I believe the most important thing you are all missing is that Microsoft isn't forcing anything. For starters, the requirement is only for the certification. Manufacturers are in no way required to do make all of their devices that way... not even to make any of them that way. Second, that requirement is for certification on ARM devices only. And for X86 devices seeking this certification, it is required that it can be disabled.

I think Aristotle was a total dumbass and his teachings were used by the Church to keep us in the dark ages for centuries.

Nothing opposes the scientific method like Aristotlean thinking.

I may need to start another thread proving just what a dumbass Aristotle was.

Dumbass and wrong about things are not equivalent. However, I was referring to certain fundamental rules of logic, which most in the thread were violating. I had no intention of conveying that I agree with everything he wrote, as I don't.

 

[argedion]

Microsoft is frequently blasted and criticized for the ammount of malware and viruses on it's platform. It's the biggest platform in the world. Thus it gets attacked all the time. Proponents of other OSes tell people to switch all the time to escape from the malware and the viruses. It's a big, big problem on the Windows platform. Look at all the botnets running around out there. How many of those bots are Windows? I'd bet it's the vast majority of them.

Microsoft is attacked all the time because its crapware. It take's at least two major updates before it begins to become somewhat tolerable. Back in the Day Microsoft used to set the Standard infact it was even their logo. "Setting the Standard" today Microsoft is far from that. Ever since Netscape started its dominance of the Internet Microsoft has been a step behind or to far ahead. (Remember the Watch) Microsoft eventually took over the Market once owned by Netscape by offering IE for free. Again more Corporate bullying. When Apple brought back Steve Jobs (Yes he was Originally fired for his pot consumption) He turned the company around. He saw an mp3 player and thought what the hey I can do better than that and the rest is history. If Microsoft was to stop trying to play catchup maybe they could once again "Set the Standard" The problem is they are looking in the past and not the future. People attack the system because it is so vulnerable. Microsoft was always focused on a "Single Use Unit" DOS was a non-multisystem and the foundation of Windows was built on that. While Windows did offer logins for mulitple users it was still just a Solitaire System that had no real security. It wasn't until 2000 came out that they really started getting a since of security. (NT 4 was better than its counterpart Windows 95 but still very lacking) Only since then have they focused on true multi-user systems. Linux / Apple have been that way from the beginning as both are Unix based systems. As far as bots and malware and whatever else thats always going to be the case when you have a closed system and don't count on a community to help you plug those holes.

People won't take responsibility for protecting their own computers. They should, but they won't. Instead, they run no AV at all and then get pissed at Microsoft when they get infected. It's the same thing as people who don't do any maintenance on their cars and scream at GM when something breaks.

Not Really GM will laugh at them. They do not program the car to automatically show up at a dealer ship to get serviced. However they will sell you a brand new car when the other one is useless. If I am careless with my system then I will suffer the consequences. A Major part of what is wrong today in our society is most do not want to accept their responsibility. It belongs to someone else blah blah blah. Well Again who designated Microsoft to "Come to the rescue" Personally I would just tell ya like GM Hey I got a really good deal on a brand new system. Want to see if you can be financed? You could take this puppy home today. I mean seriously why should I suffer because your not doing what your supposed to do. Takes me back to the 80's when they came out with the "Baby on board signs" Great I have to change my driving habits because some woman forgot to put her diaphragm in. What a real treat for me.

Companies care about making money. When they have enough of it, a hardware company can figure out software. If you think Microsoft can't figure out hardware, I'd say you're wrong.

Never known a company to have enough money

Yes Microsoft has been making hardware for years. I'm still using a Microsoft Optical Trackball. I don't think its a question if Microsoft can make hardware its rather they have the vision for the next big thing or will they continue to play catchup to the rest of the world.

 

[EarlyMon]

I think it's best to stay on topic, and that doesn't include pointing out who is violating fundamental rules of logic (besides Aristotle).

If anyone disagrees with anyone, open discourse (see what I did there?) will tend to yield satisfactory results, and if not, the option to agree to disagree is always there.

I disagree that Microsoft isn't forcing anyone to do anything. It's technically correct that they are not, more so given the meaning of forcing - but it's not practically correct in the real world.

MS certification is something that PC sellers thrive on, having that sticker on the box and sign on the website absolutely influences sales. And costs are driven by volume and demand.

There's an old saying to answer the question about how the camel got into the tent: he stuck his nose in first.

And if this camel doesn't get a whack on the beak right off the bat, I predict that supporters of this approach will come to a day in the future where they may agree with those of us today who are really hating this.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Apple was once on the verge of bankruptcy and now they have more money than anyone except Exxon Mobile -

True, but I will soon come close to matching MS. I am not supposed to talk about this, but I am fortunate in that a Nigerian Prince as well as a Potentate from Belgium has named me in their wills. I just received several super secret and confidential email messages from really real lawyers.

I stand to inherit tens of millions of billions of dollars which I will invest in Oracle.

 

[EarlyMon]

^LOL

You owe me 10%.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Microsoft is attacked all the time because its crapware. It take's at least two major updates before it begins to become somewhat tolerable. Back in the Day Microsoft used to set the Standard infact it was even their logo. "Setting the Standard" today Microsoft is far from that. Ever since Netscape started its dominance of the Internet Microsoft has been a step behind or to far ahead. (Remember the Watch) Microsoft eventually took over the Market once owned by Netscape by offering IE for free. Again more Corporate bullying. When Apple brought back Steve Jobs (Yes he was Originally fired for his pot consumption) He turned the company around. He saw an mp3 player and thought what the hey I can do better than that and the rest is history. If Microsoft was to stop trying to play catchup maybe they could once again "Set the Standard" The problem is they are looking in the past and not the future. People attack the system because it is so vulnerable. Microsoft was always focused on a "Single Use Unit" DOS was a non-multisystem and the foundation of Windows was built on that. While Windows did offer logins for mulitple users it was still just a Solitaire System that had no real security. It wasn't until 2000 came out that they really started getting a since of security. (NT 4 was better than its counterpart Windows 95 but still very lacking) Only since then have they focused on true multi-user systems. Linux / Apple have been that way from the beginning as both are Unix based systems. As far as bots and malware and whatever else thats always going to be the case when you have a closed system and don't count on a community to help you plug those holes.

You're saying that if we waved a magic wand and OS X (or Linux or Solaris or Amiga or any other OS you want to think of) had a 90% market share in the desktop world that no one would attack it. I think you're dead wrong. When you have a market share that big you paint a target on yourself. It's too big a target to not be attacked.

Not Really GM will laugh at them. They do not program the car to automatically show up at a dealer ship to get serviced. However they will sell you a brand new car when the other one is useless. If I am careless with my system then I will suffer the consequences. A Major part of what is wrong today in our society is most do not want to accept their responsibility. It belongs to someone else blah blah blah. Well Again who designated Microsoft to "Come to the rescue" Personally I would just tell ya like GM Hey I got a really good deal on a brand new system. Want to see if you can be financed? You could take this puppy home today. I mean seriously why should I suffer because your not doing what your supposed to do. Takes me back to the 80's when they came out with the "Baby on board signs" Great I have to change my driving habits because some woman forgot to put her diaphragm in. What a real treat for me.

Since when is it good PR and good customer service to throw the customer under the bus. Even when it is the customer's fault. A lot of the computer problems I deal with at work are completely the user's fault. They install every piece of software they see on the Internet, click on every banner ad and spend their hours playing games on Facebook instead of working. Then they complain that their computer runs slow. Should I change my policy of just fixing the problem to one where I berate the users and tell them they brought it on themselves and that they should buy a new computer. That endears me to no one.

And neither you nor I have clue one what Microsoft's mobile device strategy is moving forward. I have long predicted that Microsoft is interested in buying Nokia, no one knows if that may yet happen.

I don't disagree there except for the Nokia part. I'm not sure that Microsoft knows what their mobile strategy is going forward and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up costing Ballmer his job.

Companies care about making money. When they have enough of it, a hardware company can figure out software. If you think Microsoft can't figure out hardware, I'd say you're wrong.

By the way, who made or makes the Zune, the Microsoft keyboard, the Microsoft mouse, the Xbox or the Kinnect?

I disagree. Aside from the Xbox (and by extension the Kinect) Microsoft has had flop after flop in the hardware department. They make keyboards and mice, but they're not any more successful than any other keyboard or mouse. I've used them. They're solid products. There's nothing that would make me pick up a Microsoft mouse or keyboard over any other kind though. The Zune was a flop. The Kin was a flop. Hardware wise, they haven't had a big hit since the XBox and that was 10 years ago. They've guild on that with the 360 of course, but haven't come out with any really new hardware products that were major successes in a long time.

PS - You can run Android on a Windows phone, the HTC Touch Pro. For now.

You can, but honestly, how many people do? A few tech heads do, but that's mainly because they can. No one is going out and buying and HTC Touch Pro with the idea that they'll put Android on it as soon as they get it home. At the very least, no one is going out in droves and doing that. The vast majority of mobile devices still run the same OS they left the factory with.

 

[A.Nonymous]

True, but I will soon come close to matching MS. I am not supposed to talk about this, but I am fortunate in that a Nigerian Prince as well as a Potentate from Belgium has named me in their wills. I just received several super secret and confidential email messages from really real lawyers.

I stand to inherit tens of millions of billions of dollars which I will invest in Oracle.

Or you can do like my grandpa did and buy Apple stock when it was trading at a $1 a share or so before Jobs took over. Not sure how, but grandpa knew what he was doing, that's for sure.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Or . . . we could wait until something actually happens and then argue back and forth.

I do not see a serious problem, upon reflection. What do I care if MS makes it impossible to do things I do not want to do? So relax, if it happens, Mr. Google will tell you how to get around UFIE or UTYP or UIFI or FUDD or whatever the BIOS thingy is called.

Boy Howdy . . . a man can go insane reading the web.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Or you can do like my grandpa did and buy Apple stock when it was trading at a $1 a share or so before Jobs took over. Not sure how, but grandpa knew what he was doing, that's for sure.

You are not too late. You can still buy cheap stock that will one day be worth piles of cash. The trick is in finding the stock and investing the cash.

As we speak, there are people starting a company that will one day set the world on fire. You just have to find it.

 

[EarlyMon]

I don't disagree there except for the Nokia part. I'm not sure that Microsoft knows what their mobile strategy is going forward and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up costing Ballmer his job.

I can't wait to hear the last of him.

I disagree. Aside from the Xbox (and by extension the Kinect) Microsoft has had flop after flop in the hardware department. They make keyboards and mice, but they're not any more successful than any other keyboard or mouse. I've used them. They're solid products. There's nothing that would make me pick up a Microsoft mouse or keyboard over any other kind though. The Zune was a flop. The Kin was a flop. Hardware wise, they haven't had a big hit since the XBox and that was 10 years ago. They've guild on that with the 360 of course, but haven't come out with any really new hardware products that were major successes in a long time.

The Xbox almost flopped over reliability issues. They learn. Moving forward only takes corporate will to see things as they are and how they can be. When execs stop drinking their own Kool Aide, change can happen.

You can, but honestly, how many people do? A few tech heads do, but that's mainly because they can. No one is going out and buying and HTC Touch Pro with the idea that they'll put Android on it as soon as they get it home. At the very least, no one is going out in droves and doing that. The vast majority of mobile devices still run the same OS they left the factory with.

My point wasn't how many (agree, few), it was what kind - the kind that got tired of Windows on that phone.

And I think Microsoft wants no one messing with their plans. Nor their vendor lock-in, although I admit to guessing on that, just as I am the Nokia buyout.

But that quisling they got in there and his burning platform nonsense was no accident.

 

[KinichAjaw]

I don't agree with what Microsoft does for a lot of reasons ,but that's quite an eye-catcher. I've used Linux for a few years so to know M$ is so concerned about losing even a fraction of their market share to "omgwtfopensourceiscomingzors!" is kind of upsetting to completely minimize the issue.

That said-I hope educating the masses helps, since it's their money they're being robbed for when they buy a computer with stock anything M$.

 

[zuben el genub]

Windows did have tablets out years ago. They ran CE. They also were a flop. Palm came out with the phone sized PDA, MS put CE on the same - those were fairly successful.

Nokia is apparently keeping Symbian, under the name Bella. Symbian has been pretty reliable, especially where there isn't too much tech help.

I'm not being snarky, but I have read that the Iphone is one of the larger data users. Now if MS can manage to port all the games that are favored over to tablets - especially the ones that are played against an online competitor, I'd be worried about bandwidth hogs, and the rest of us being penalized for it.

BTW - walled garden showing cracks? Since MS has a larger user base in computing--
Apple's walled garden cracks, fake Camera+ app found - Neowin.net

 

[Bob Maxey]

Windows did have tablets out years ago. They ran CE. They also were a flop. Palm came out with the phone sized PDA, MS put CE on the same - those were fairly successful.

Nokia is apparently keeping Symbian, under the name Bella. Symbian has been pretty reliable, especially where there isn't too much tech help.

My theory: CE failed because people would not hear the word "Tablet" for years to come and they were just not interested in such devices. There were many mobile devices, but it took Apple to start the whole thing going. There was very little interest in mobile computing at the time.

In my opinion, Apple owes it success to iTunes and the market. You can simply DL and install a program from your iPad. You do not need a computer or half a brain. Combine that with slick marketing and Apple wins. At least for now.

CE was not bad, just different. I had CE on a Casio Cassiopeia and it was interesting. Certainly better than a Palm. My HP was also better than the Palm. Then the Palm VII arrived and people took notice. Web access (after a fashion) and email in the palm of your hand.

I had one of these:

Vadem Clio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Small, long battery life and truly great handwriting to text conversion. Not much memory, but that was back in the day when memory was very expensive and not required.

As for Palm, I have a few theories. We blew it. We could have developed a device and manufactured a truly cool mobile tablet, but we blew it. I recall engineering drawings sent to us when we were trying to develop a manufacturing strategy; we called this a PVT or 'Production Verification Test.' It went no where.

Now, everyone seems to make a tablet. Manufacturers want part of Apple's market share and Apple likely wants their market share.

Highlander, there can be only one.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I remember playing with the CE and early Palm devices when they came out and being thoroughly unimpressed. I was in high school at the time so the idea of being able to keep a list of contacts and my calendar and such on a portable device that synced with my computer seemed pointless to me. I had a dayplanner I could write stuff in and stick in my pocket. Why do it electronically? Email was around, but most people didn't use it and there wasn't a point to simply syncing it to your handheld device that I could see. There was no need to refer to it later.

I had a similar attitude when cell phones started going into wide use in my college days. I saw no point in people needing to be able to call someone all the time unless they were a business user.

Without wide spread Internet usage and the ability to constantly stay connected, there just wasn't much use for the things. I think they came out before the infrastructure to support them was really available.

 

[argedion]

You're saying that if we waved a magic wand and OS X (or Linux or Solaris or Amiga or any other OS you want to think of) had a 90% market share in the desktop world that no one would attack it. I think you're dead wrong. When you have a market share that big you paint a target on yourself. It's too big a target to not be attacked.

First thats not what I said what I said was that is what you get when you have a proprietary system. When you have a community helping you plug the holes, Unlike Microsoft / Apple who solely rely on their own programmers, You will find out what holes you need to plug does the name Trevor E mean anything here. Because of Open Source he was able to discover a very bad security flaw now that flaw has been removed. Had this been a proprietary system like Windows who know if it would have ever been discovered.

Since when is it good PR and good customer service to throw the customer under the bus. Even when it is the customer's fault. A lot of the computer problems I deal with at work are completely the user's fault. They install every piece of software they see on the Internet, click on every banner ad and spend their hours playing games on Facebook instead of working. Then they complain that their computer runs slow. Should I change my policy of just fixing the problem to one where I berate the users and tell them they brought it on themselves and that they should buy a new computer. That endears me to no one.

Isn't that what the car companies do? Mechanics tell people all the time that if you would have taken better care of the car then it would have lasted longer.

Good PR or Not its Job Security. Not likely you'll do anything to show the company they don't need you. But at the same time people like you are the reason people get root kits Because you go and fix their problems with out properly educating them on the dangers of their computer habits. No you don't have to berate them but you should educate them.

Please don't put words in my mouth I stick my foot in there enough on my own don't need help doing so.

 

[EarlyMon]

I don't think it's terribly fair to say what A.Nonymous tells people unless he says what he tells or unless we're there when he tells it.

If you know what I mean, and I think that you do.

I'm sure everyone tries their best at their jobs.

I got email all week from a family member complaining that they can't get on the internet (because browser spam was telling them that non-fact to sell them something).

Explaining things is not always so easy, what comes naturally to us, maybe not so much to others.

I've told plenty of folks what's wrong with Facebook. And do they listen to me? They do not.

Let's try to not make things overly personal, mmmk?

 

[A.Nonymous]

First thats not what I said what I said was that is what you get when you have a proprietary system. When you have a community helping you plug the holes, Unlike Microsoft / Apple who solely rely on their own programmers, You will find out what holes you need to plug does the name Trevor E mean anything here. Because of Open Source he was able to discover a very bad security flaw now that flaw has been removed. Had this been a proprietary system like Windows who know if it would have ever been discovered.

Disagree. OS X, up until recently, has rarely been targetted. Mainly because it wasn't worth it with just a single digit market share. Closed vs open source is another thread though. They both have their advantage. Windows isn't being targeted because it is closed source. It's being targeted because it has such a large market share.

Isn't that what the car companies do? Mechanics tell people all the time that if you would have taken better care of the car then it would have lasted longer.

Good PR or Not its Job Security. Not likely you'll do anything to show the company they don't need you. But at the same time people like you are the reason people get root kits Because you go and fix their problems with out properly educating them on the dangers of their computer habits. No you don't have to berate them but you should educate them.

Please don't put words in my mouth I stick my foot in there enough on my own don't need help doing so.

Try educating clueless users sometimes. Tell them not to install every program that pops up on the Internet. Tell them not to spend their time on sketch web sites. They don't listen. Or they don't care. Used to have a client where the owner of the company spent his time at work surfing for porn. Constantly infected his computer. He knew that he got infected from the sketchy porn sites. He didn't care. A lot of users are like that. Many of them will swear they didn't do anything to get the infection, but you'll see their history says differently. Or you'll find they don't have any of the current patches for whatever reason. Some of the computers out at our clients are sadly, in poor shape.