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Obama Care Yet Again

vailpass said:
Drama queen much?
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That's helpful & productive.

vailpass said:
I said the government can help the elderly, children, and those who are physically unable to help themselves.

In your example if the father fits these categories he is cared for. If not he is able-bodied but failed to work hard enough to care for himself. So he gets what he paid for. That is called life.
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So the father's job was outsourced to Mexico/China/India and because of the collapsed economy he is now jobless and without insurance, just like millions of other Americans. Or he's managed to find part time work without benefits. Either way he has no insurance. Now he's in desperate need of medical care but can't afford it.

Tough luck, eh?

I'll wager that you're a public sector employee, probably civil service, happily collecting health care and retirement benefits that were paid for BY TAXPAYERS.
 
vailpass said:
Health care is a basic human right. It should be readily available to everyone without regard for color, nationality or economic status.

Who the hell told you this? That is certainly not in our constitution. Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. Get your hand out of my pocket.
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The right to breathe air isn't in the constitution either, so I guess you are using privileges you don't have.

Read the preamble to the constitution, it puts a lot of things into proper perspective:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Funny how that phrase is ignored by constitutional originalists when it's right there staring them in the face. They go on and on about the founders and what they meant and how it's clearly written in the constitution and then they utterly ignore the preamble - the introduction to the constitution that clearly describes the purpose for which it was written.
 
noah way said:
That's helpful & productive.



So the father's job was outsourced to Mexico/China/India and because of the collapsed economy he is now jobless and without insurance, just like millions of other Americans. Or he's managed to find part time work without benefits. Either way he has no insurance. Now he's in desperate need of medical care but can't afford it.

Tough luck, eh?

I'll wager that you're a public sector employee, probably civil service, happily collecting health care and retirement benefits that were paid for BY TAXPAYERS.
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If one job doesn't pay the bills then get two. Being willing to do whatever it takes is what built this country. Not being willing to do so is what is tearing it down.

Where do you propose to get the money to pay for able-bodied people's insurance? Have you seen our debt load?

As to your last comment: hopefully you aren't a wagering man in real life, apparently you aren't good at it.
 
noah way said:
The right to breathe air isn't in the constitution either, so I guess you are using privileges you don't have.

Read the preamble to the constitution, it puts a lot of things into proper perspective:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Funny how that phrase is ignored by constitutional originalists when it's right there staring them in the face. They go on and on about the founders and what they meant and how it's clearly written in the constitution and then they utterly ignore the preamble - the introduction to the constitution that clearly describes the purpose for which it was written.
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I have to laugh when people like you interpret the phrase "promote the general welfare" in our Preamble to mean "federal government hand-outs". Our framers would roll over at the thought of the size/scope of the Federal government today. They would cringe at the thought of mass amounts of able individuals depending on the federal government, refusing to do whatever is necessary to make their own way and contribute instead of deplete this great country's assetts.
 
vailpass said:
I have to laugh when people like you interpret the phrase "promote the general welfare" in our Preamble to mean "federal government hand-outs". Our framers would roll over at the thought of the size/scope of the Federal government today. They would cringe at the thought of mass amounts of able individuals depending on the federal government, refusing to do whatever is necessary to make their own way and contribute instead of deplete this great country's assetts.
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Invoking our fore fathers is simply an appeal to authority with the addition of the authority being 200 years dead.

When this country was founded, there was no stock market, no fiat currency, no transportation system, no utilities etc. etc. What this country has become in simply beyond the reach of their imaginations when it comes to things other than personal rights and theories about modes of government.
 
vailpass said:
I have to laugh when people like you interpret the phrase "promote the general welfare" in our Preamble to mean "federal government hand-outs". Our framers would roll over at the thought of the size/scope of the Federal government today. They would cringe at the thought of mass amounts of able individuals depending on the federal government, refusing to do whatever is necessary to make their own way and contribute instead of deplete this great country's assetts.
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Look it up:

wel
 
Friends,

I've made a couple of small edits cutting out rudeness that was based upon misunderstanding. Please keep it respectful to each other, especially in this and other political topics. We really care and are passionate but we must not go over the line and get personal. K? :)

TIA (thanks in advance)

Steven :)
 
the one thing i see stated over and over is that people die due to lack of healthcare

emergency and live saving health care is not refused.
anytime you go to an er you will be treated regardless of your health care situation

many doctors will actually work with people who do not have hc and even discount rates. people are not refused access to health care.

the untited states is not and never really has been a democray. it is a representative republic. we elect the people we think wo do what we want, when they dont, we boot em out (this is how its supposed to work)

unfortunately the masses have no idea what their senators/congressmen do. all they see is the pork brought to their districts, the benefits they get, ect ect
they see money being thrown at problems, its like putting a bandaid on a dam before it bursts.
the correct thing to do is get out of the way of business and let them do what they do, create jobs and wealth.
 
mdram said:
the one thing i see stated over and over is that people die due to lack of healthcare

emergency and live saving health care is not refused.
anytime you go to an er you will be treated regardless of your health care situation

many doctors will actually work with people who do not have hc and even discount rates. people are not refused access to health care.

the untited states is not and never really has been a democray. it is a representative republic. we elect the people we think wo do what we want, when they dont, we boot em out (this is how its supposed to work)

unfortunately the masses have no idea what their senators/congressmen do. all they see is the pork brought to their districts, the benefits they get, ect ect
they see money being thrown at problems, its like putting a bandaid on a dam before it bursts.
the correct thing to do is get out of the way of business and let them do what they do, create jobs and wealth.
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Yes if you do something stupid like dislocate your shoulder and go to the ER, you will not be refused care. If you have cancer, you will not be given treated for it longterm because you cannot afford it if you do not have healthcare.
 
Metroidman said:
Yes if you do something stupid like dislocate your shoulder and go to the ER, you will not be refused care. If you have cancer, you will not be given treated for it longterm because you cannot afford it if you do not have healthcare.
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this is a flat out lie, i have known more then 1 person who recieved cancer treatment when they had no insurance. and before you say its just heresay
1 was my father, and 1 is my cousin.

people are not refused treatment
 
mdram said:
the one thing i see stated over and over is that people die due to lack of healthcare

emergency and live saving health care is not refused.
anytime you go to an er you will be treated regardless of your health care situation

many doctors will actually work with people who do not have hc and even discount rates. people are not refused access to health care.

the untited states is not and never really has been a democray. it is a representative republic. we elect the people we think wo do what we want, when they dont, we boot em out (this is how its supposed to work)

unfortunately the masses have no idea what their senators/congressmen do. all they see is the pork brought to their districts, benefits they get, ect ect
they see money being thrown at problems, its like putting a bandaid on a dam before it bursts.
the correct thing to do is get out of the way of business and let them do what they do, create jobs and wealth.
Click to expand...
Again, they are not required to give EMERGENCY care, only thing they are required to treat are LIFE THREATENING emergencies. People are often refused critical care. And before you say, you know someone who got care, I know people that were denied. But, to use YOUR father and cousin as an example, dont you think that IF they had FULL ACCESS to care, it would have been a little better. As in IF they were to visit the Dr on a regular basis, the cancer would have been caught sooner. Resulting on better odds of survival, AND a CHEAPER bill being passed on?
 
nlsme said:
Again, they are not required to give EMERGENCY care, only thing they are required to treat are LIFE THREATENING emergencies. People are often refused critical care. And before you say, you know someone who got care, I know people that were denied. But, to use YOUR father and cousin as an example, dont you think that IF they had FULL ACCESS to care, it would have been a little better. As in IF they were to visit the Dr on a regular basis, the cancer would have been caught sooner. Resulting on better odds of survival, AND a CHEAPER bill being passed on?
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they both received excellent care, my cousin is still undergoing care.
they were even sent to hospitals with better facilities for their surgeries.

maybe its a location thing. some places the hospitals are overrun with illegals, and they may turn people away if its not life threatening
 
mdram said:
this is a flat out lie, i have known more then 1 person who recieved cancer treatment when they had no insurance. and before you say its just heresay
1 was my father, and 1 is my cousin.

people are not refused treatment
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You must be absolutely furious that you had to help pay for your father's treatment.
 
noah way said:
You must be absolutely furious that you had to help pay for your father's treatment.
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rofl, nope, thats my job. help care for family when they cant.

i shouldnt have to help for your family though, thats your job

or for those 20million illegal immigrants, or the crackhead that doesnt work, ect ect
 
But, we are paying for your family. And the crackhead. Having cdls, I am betting they had a pretty decent job. How is it fair that their bill is passed along to everyone else?
 
nlsme said:
But, we are paying for your family. And the crackhead. Having cdls, I am betting they had a pretty decent job. How is it fair that their bill is passed along to everyone else?
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Precisely, he should be feeling rage by proxy, unless he protests solely on what costs him more, and not even out of principle. The old "every man is an island" philosophy.
 
you did not pay for it directly, the hospital wrote off anything we could not pay as a loss. we did pay as much as possible.
 
mdram said:
you did not pay for it directly, the hospital wrote off anything we could not pay as a loss. we did pay as much as possible.
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So, the person that would have us believe that businesses pass on taxes to their workers and customers and that someone's tax dollars will have to pay each medical bill, but when it comes to hospitals taking a loss on someone's care, there's no way they'll compensate for that by charging others more. Oh, but it's not 'directly.'

Right.
 
mdram said:
you did not pay for it directly, the hospital wrote off anything we could not pay as a loss. we did pay as much as possible.
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That right off increases the costs FOR EVERYONE. And "as much as possible" heh? So you sold your house? Your car? You went broke? Because cancer treatment isnt cheap. What makes your dads "write off" better than the crackheads?
 
nlsme said:
That right off increases the costs FOR EVERYONE. And "as much as possible" heh? So you sold your house? Your car? You went broke? Because cancer treatment isnt cheap. What makes your dads "write off" better than the crackheads?
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as a matter of fact yes we did
 
mdram said:
as a matter of fact yes we did
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And there was still a write off. Wich, again, raises the cost to everyone. And, if you went broke, how are you able to have access to internet? And, I am willing to bet, you have a smartphone too.

You still havent addressed the fact that they must have had a pretty decent job, how is it fair for those costs to be spread around, for their choice not to carry insurance? Even if it is "indirectly", wich, your source above confirms.
 
this is getting off topic.
sorry no more personal question.

but as i said people are nor refused health care
 
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