Opinions on Apple

[Isthmus]

Also... I'm going to be in Paris. Fashion has a different meaning there than here. Parisians take MUCH better care of themselves and what they wear and carry. It's like NYC or higher end areas of LA, like Beverly Hills or Laguna Beach, but on another level.

I don't know man. I live in NYC and have been to paris several times and I just don't see what you are talking about. Yes, both cities have a lot of people who spend a lot f money to look good. Both cities also have a lot of young, adventurous fashionistas (NYC probably has a larger crowd of these), but I would argue that most people in both cities are just normal people, who are not particularly fashion concious one way or the other. I think that what you see in NYC, which might be more similar to Paris is that it is much more formal in dress than the rest of the country. For example Khakis and white sneakers are not something you see very much of in NYC.

 

[Isthmus]

User Account Control(for Windows) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess I should have been more specific. In the majority of windows systems the default setting for all users is admin level control. Most users never alter this with user level controls and as a result most windows rigs tend to be susceptible to malware and especially social engineering type of infections. The majority of Linux distributions take the opposite (and more secure) approach and default to only on admin level account and all user accounts having no admin rights (unless the admin account specifically changes user rights). even the admin account needs defaults to requiring password verification every time a system change is made (such as installing a package or altering code).

That simple default approach and the reliance on most users never really changing default settings, is one of several reasons why Linux (as a whole) has traditionally been inherently more secure that windows.

 

[Vihzel]

I don't know man. I live in NYC and have been to paris several times and I just don't see what you are talking about. Yes, both cities have a lot of people who spend a lot f money to look good. Both cities also have a lot of young, adventurous fashionistas (NYC probably has a larger crowd of these), but I would argue that most people in both cities are just normal people, who are not particularly fashion concious one way or the other. I think that what you see in NYC, which might be more similar to Paris is that it is much more formal in dress than the rest of the country. For example Khakis and white sneakers are not something you see very much of in NYC.

I can't exactly say for NYC but for Paris, it's definitely different. Of course there are a lot of people who just don't exactly care but is that more based on limited observation? I've spoken with quite a good amount of people who lived and grew up in Paris and they've all told me the same thing that Parisians really do care about how they dress. Just this Tuesday at my French table with 3 Parisians, we were talking about different styles of Americans and Parisians. They all agreed that they feel that the majority of Americans (where I study) don't necessarily care what they wear, where it's the opposite in Paris. There are differences in how a "normal American" and a "normal Parisian" dress.

I'm just going by what I've been told a lot of times from Parisians and from my own trips to Paris. It's not factual since a fact is something that can't be disputed. I also talked with my cousin, who lived in Upper East Side Manhattan for 5 years before moving back to LA, about fashion and she agreed with me for the most part. Perhaps it also depends on your background. If you lived in a small town in Kansas, you're going to get a very different perception as compared to someone who lived in Laguna Beach.

 

[LOL DROID]

The only Apple products I enjoy using are iPods.

 

[Martimus]

I can't exactly say for NYC but for Paris, it's definitely different. Of course there are a lot of people who just don't exactly care but is that more based on limited observation? I've spoken with quite a good amount of people who lived and grew up in Paris and they've all told me the same thing that Parisians really do care about how they dress. Just this Tuesday at my French table with 3 Parisians, we were talking about different styles of Americans and Parisians. They all agreed that they feel that the majority of Americans (where I study) don't necessarily care what they wear, where it's the opposite in Paris. There are differences in how a "normal American" and a "normal Parisian" dress.

I'm just going by what I've been told a lot of times from Parisians and from my own trips to Paris. It's not factual. I also talked with my cousin, who lived in Upper East Side Manhattan for 5 years before moving back to LA, about fashion and she agreed with me for the most part. Perhaps it also depends on your background. If you lived in a small town in Kansas, you're going to get a very different perception as compared to someone who lived in Laguna Beach.

I have a friend who was born and raised in France. One thing he'd tell you is that there are three kinds of people in France: those that live in Paris, those that don't live in Paris, and tourists. The amusing this is that most French people see Parisians in a class by themselves... and many would prefer they stay that way!

 

[Snow_Fox]

I always factor in cost to everything that I do. No one looks at their credit card account more than I do. I could afford spending the extra $300-$500 for my notebook that I got at a huge discount (even though it was new and from Amazon!) It's a 17" notebook that really no other 17" that I also compared with can match up. 17" Apple laptops excel in design, battery life, form factor (thinness), screen quality, speakers, materials, and again... design. The only other one that can remotely compete is the HP Envy 17. It falls short immensely on battery life. It's very difficult to find another 17" notebook that meets my expectations.

If anyone can find another 17" laptop that can match up with Apple... let me know!

Apple is like the luxury brand for laptops. HP is probably distant 2nd with their Envy line. All others... very different. Apple = Mercedes Benz of laptops.

My views stems a lot from my parents who are "separated" and one lives in an 8 bedroom house and the other in a 6 bedroom house. Status is very important to them and to my extended family. No one in my extended family owns anything less than an Infiniti (which they view as "My First Car" kind of company) I've always grown up in that kind of environment and just see things differently.

Bah, I hate the apple is mercedes pc is muscle car comparison.

If your apple laptop is the lightest 17" pc out there and easiest to carry around, and maintains enough power to do basic task you need, then thats fine that it suits your needs.

I do want to compare apple to fashion (way more than cars, and steve jobs probably hates that people do). However, I view apple in the exact same way I view fashion. Slapping a brand like "louis vuitton" makes something worth a lot more. I can accept that different brands of clothing do fit different people better. Abercrombie's jeans fit better than american eagle for some people, thats fine. Telling me those jeans are all universally better than some jeans I can pick up at walmart? ehh.. your stretching it.

Something can look great and stylish and be a totally unfashionable brand, vise versa.. I have seen some gawdy, expensive, fashionable purses and clothes.

People do have brand preferences, I can live with that. When FASHION is a reason for brand preference? I cringe.. I cringe hard. Especially now that apple is popular. I don't feel fashion should ever mix with electronics. I was always interested in games, computers and stuff and was happy growing up because all the "cool kids" who were into "shopping for new shoes" as a hobby could have their hobby and not bother me with mine, I really don't want them coming into my world now because, some company realizes the "cool kids" are willing to be "interested" in my hobby so long as there is a brand they can pay more money for than i do, and then try to say their product is better than mine.

I use to deal with a guy who got new shoes every month. Why? I don't know.. I wore shoes till they wore out. They are SHOOOEEEEESSS you walk around in them, they touch the ground, they keep crap off your feet if you accidently step in crap. Sure I understand the appeal of having more then one set of shoes.. One set for "yard work" one set for set for "public" and then maybe a "formal events" pair.

Believe it or not I was actually quite made fun of by peers growing up for these reasons. I had generic clothes, I didn't have brand name khakis in school, nor brand name maroon polo shirts. (its funny how the justification for uniforms was "there will be less bullying" at the schools around my town, when the only thing that changed was what people are bullied over.. I was picked on but, never bullied for my brand of clothes.)

It is kind of funny at age 12, people would make fun of my generic clothes.. and I would make fun of them for wasting money. Pointing out I could buy a lot of games for the same price.

These people weren't high class.. infact they really amount to brainwashed more than anything. I actually remember asking my mom one day "whats the difference between the brand name clothes and walmart brand clothes" answer "cost". Sure in retrospect I realize that there is more that goes into different brands than just what the cost is.. But, for a 12 year old in middle and highschool? whats the point of wasting money on brand? who cares if they fit slightly better.. clothes can be comfortable without being the 'perfect fit'. You can be stylish without being a fashionable brand whore.

So now that I'm grown up how do you think I feel about the "cool kids" joining in the eletronics world and touting their brand superiority? In middleschool I didn't care clothes weren't what I gave a crap about. 10 years later, working on a computer science degree? I want to take a baseball bat to steve jobs for creating a huge wave of fashion in eletronics world. Sure there have been some upsides.. but, i hate it anytime I overhear a conversation where someone with no idea what they are talking about starts praising jesu... apple.

Yes I realize android fanboys are just as bad however, apple fanboys and trolls have been around for quite a while longer.. Apple iphone came out.. people got more interested in macs.. and aside from the outright trolls you every so often saw people ask "Why does everyone keep ripping on me for owning an apple product!?" well.. to be polite.. because, hardcore mac fans have been ripping on pc since long before you ever got a mac.. or an iphone.

I mean.. apple has a bad habit of being arrogant. Sure they got a second wind with the iphone... But, well.. arrogance comes before the fall.. and while android fanboys are growing... the truth at the end of the day is steve jobs arrogance has acted like a catalyst.

I am using catalyst in chemistry terms here. It accelerates things without being affected itself. Steve jobs arrogance has in many ways propelled apple forward in terms of profits and other things.. The flipside? he makes so many of the choices about apple, what happens when he is gone? Not just that but, if they had come out with the iphone and not been as arrogant.. would google have even had a chance?

Lets face it.. part of the allure of apple for a lot of people has been the exclusivity however, if apple wasn't s controlling and still offered the same feature's and benefits the way they do now it may not have "propelled" them into the block buster sensation they are now but, it could have been a possibly long term dominance..

 

[IOWA]

Opinions differ. I never expected anything less.

They sure do. I just never understood peoples dependency on others for their happiness, and as fortune cookie as it sounds, true happiness comes from within yourself.

 

[IOWA]

I guess I should have been more specific. In the majority of windows systems the default setting for all users is admin level control. Most users never alter this with user level controls and as a result most windows rigs tend to be susceptible to malware and especially social engineering type of infections. The majority of Linux distributions take the opposite (and more secure) approach and default to only on admin level account and all user accounts having no admin rights (unless the admin account specifically changes user rights). even the admin account needs defaults to requiring password verification every time a system change is made (such as installing a package or altering code).

That simple default approach and the reliance on most users never really changing default settings, is one of several reasons why Linux (as a whole) has traditionally been inherently more secure that windows.

Actually no, since Vista, the default is without Admin privileges, and you need to give admin power to any kind of task that can alter the system significantly. Yeah it should have been in xp, but oh well it's here now.

 

[Vihzel]

Bah, I hate the apple is mercedes pc is muscle car comparison.

If your apple laptop is the lightest 17" pc out there and easiest to carry around, and maintains enough power to do basic task you need, then thats fine that it suits your needs.

I do want to compare apple to fashion (way more than cars, and steve jobs probably hates that people do). However, I view apple in the exact same way I view fashion. Slapping a brand like "louis vuitton" makes something worth a lot more. I can accept that different brands of clothing do fit different people better. Abercrombie's jeans fit better than american eagle for some people, thats fine. Telling me those jeans are all universally better than some jeans I can pick up at walmart? ehh.. your stretching it.

Something can look great and stylish and be a totally unfashionable brand, vise versa.. I have seen some gawdy, expensive, fashionable purses and clothes.

You also have to factor in the actual materials used for it as compared to other products and that it is actually made by a designer or by a fashion house. Designer jeans ARE better than jeans from Walmart... if you don't know the reasons why, then perhaps a class at FIDM or FIT will clear that up for you. One example is thread count.

 

[Potvin63]

I like how well made and problem free Apple products have been for ME personally. I don't use my laptop for anything strenuous like video editing, music recording or playing any games. I do understand the argument that Apple is pricier, more restrictive with their software, and overall has more control over the user's experience.

It just so happened (I'm on my 2nd Mac laptop since 2003) that my previous PC's and laptops all encountered problems somewhere along the line and I found the Mac user interface aesthetically pleasing and more than adequate for my use. As someone who was in school for many years (finally graduated law school last year) when Microsoft Office went to Mac that clinched the deal for me. Macbooks's are very portable, great battery life and once they started integrating more PC software the argument that they didn't have great 3rd party programs went out the window.

I also own an iPad that I find convenient for teaching purposes and on the go email, web browsing and entertainment (when I have time). I am new to the Android platform with a Samsung Fascinate and have a good relationship with my Dell laptop at work running Windows XP. I've heard good things about Windows 7 and may get a PC desktop once I save up a little bit of money.

 

[Isthmus]

One thing I'll give apple owners, that you rarely see amongst PC owners, is that they tend to hold on to their computers for a long time, and their computers continue to operate respectably for long after windows counterparts have seen the software overtake the hardware. This has more to do with apple controlling hardware and software development for its machines, than probably anything else, but the end effect is what it is.

 

[lunatic59]

I have a friend who was born and raised in France. One thing he'd tell you is that there are three kinds of people in France: those that live in Paris, those that don't live in Paris, and tourists. The amusing this is that most French people see Parisians in a class by themselves... and many would prefer they stay that way!

I think that could be said for most of the mega-cities. NY, L.A., Tokyo, Beijing, Moscow ... etc. Throw a couple million people together in a small area and they will develop their own cultural ecosystem, but they are still people with the same basic propensities.

Paris is one of my favorite cities for the culture and attitude. Contrary to popular U.S. misinformation, the French -- Parisians in particular -- are not American-hating, cigarette-smoking, hygienically challenged snobs. They are just people with a different geographical location and cultural heritage. If you accept them for who they are, most people will return the courtesy.

Actually it's been my experience that the people wit the worst attitudes are those with preconceptions about the places they've never been to, or people they've never met.

... and, just to keep this on topic. I really do find it mildly offensive that there is an Apple Store in the Louvre. To me, that's as much a slap in the face as Euro Disney.

 

[G.Armour]

I don't really care for apple, but has everyone heard the ipad is coming to Verizon soon and the iPhone either in January or March. That could cause serious problems for Android IMO.

 

[Jammy]

I quite like the Macs and OS X, but wouldn't pay the premium for them...

I really dislike iOS though...

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Apple = Mercedes Benz of laptops.

Not the best analogy, Daimler (formerly DaimlerChrysler) owns Mercedes-Benz, so that makes Apple the Chrysler of laptops

 

[Martimus]

I think that could be said for most of the mega-cities. NY, L.A., Tokyo, Beijing, Moscow ... etc. Throw a couple million people together in a small area and they will develop their own cultural ecosystem, but they are still people with the same basic propensities.

Paris is one of my favorite cities for the culture and attitude. Contrary to popular U.S. misinformation, the French -- Parisians in particular -- are not American-hating, cigarette-smoking, hygienically challenged snobs. They are just people with a different geographical location and cultural heritage. If you accept them for who they are, most people will return the courtesy.

Actually it's been my experience that the people wit the worst attitudes are those with preconceptions about the places they've never been to, or people they've never met.

... and, just to keep this on topic. I really do find it mildly offensive that there is an Apple Store in the Louvre. To me, that's as much a slap in the face as Euro Disney.

Absolutely! In my friends case, I get a kick out of how much he dislikes Parisians! One thing you can always say about the French is that they are very passionate about their feelings!

 

[IOWA]

One thing I'll give apple owners, that you rarely see amongst PC owners, is that they tend to hold on to their computers for a long time, and their computers continue to operate respectably for long after windows counterparts have seen the software overtake the hardware. This has more to do with apple controlling hardware and software development for its machines, than probably anything else, but the end effect is what it is.

Umm, I still have a machine that runs Win98.

 

[lunatic59]

Absolutely! In my friends case, I get a kick out of how much he dislikes Parisians! One thing you can always say about the French is that they are very passionate about their feelings!

Mais oui, c'est vrai. N'est-ce pas? .... et tout cette merde.

 

[IOWA]

Mais oui, c'est vrai. N'est-ce pas? .... et tout cette merde.

^But yes, it's true. Is not it? .... and all that shit.^

I believe this is an ENGLISH speaking only forum, not sure though.

 

[Isthmus]

Umm, I still have a machine that runs Win98.

and I suspect that you are also more advanced than your average user.

 

[lunatic59]

^But yes, it's true. Is not it? .... and all that shit.^

I believe this is an ENGLISH speaking only forum, not sure though.

Phew ... for a moment there I thought I was typing

 

[IOWA]

and I suspect that you are also more advanced than your average user.

Still has nothing to do with software "overriding the hardware" or something like that.

 

[Exiled]

One thing I'll give apple owners, that you rarely see amongst PC owners, is that they tend to hold on to their computers for a long time, and their computers continue to operate respectably for long after windows counterparts have seen the software overtake the hardware. This has more to do with apple controlling hardware and software development for its machines, than probably anything else, but the end effect is what it is.

I think that is due to the fact that Apple creates their own OS as well as all the hardware. Compare this to Windows, which has many many different companies producing the hardware. So if you buy a Mac computer, you are only going to upgrade when Apple comes out with their newest hardware system. And even then, it may not be that big of an upgrade, so you may choose to wait until the next generation. I dont know how long this overturn takes, but I'm going to guess that its around every 3-4 years or so, based on the people I know (feel free to correct that if you know otherwise...). This allows people to keep their products longer and not feel as though its so outdated. But with Windows, all those companies are competing to sell their computers and they try to outdo each other. Every few months you see a new computer that has more ram, more memory, and better graphics etc.

This goes the same for phones as well. Theres only 2 fairly current models of iphones, but who knows how many android phones are out there, and they're all made by different companies. With an iphone, you are likely to have the most current model for a year or 2, but with android, you will probably see a cooler better phone in only 3-4 months. I mean I love my droid x, but im drooling over some of the prospective phones that I hear about coming out around the holiday season.

 

[Snow_Fox]

You also have to factor in the actual materials used for it as compared to other products and that it is actually made by a designer or by a fashion house. Designer jeans ARE better than jeans from Walmart... if you don't know the reasons why, then perhaps a class at FIDM or FIT will clear that up for you. One example is thread count.

If your doing to defend brand like that maybe we should look at the fact apple has twice the mark up of other brands at the same thread count.

Also for what it is worth I am not saying that brands don't differ in quality.. But, I am saying there is a difference between someone who makes a well informed purchase, and someone who is an outright brand whore because they think that it is "classy".

I don't need any classes to determine quality of products.. If I were inclined I could google it and within a few days have a better knowledge of it than 90% of the brand whores out there.

The truth is I don't care about clothes. If they are comfortable, stylish and reasonably priced, then that sells me. I evaluate based on criteria and not on brand. to be honest most of the time, I am overwhelmingly happy going the cheap route. Lets face it you put on clothes and generally that is the last thought about them.

*Edit*

@EXILED

while I do agree... the truth is its sorta lose-lose situation there..

Even if you had an iphone.. the fact is now new phones are constantly raising the bar..

So would you really sit back and go 'Oh I'm glad apple isn't coming out with a new phone, and that feature, the new droid has looks boring!'

 

[Exiled]

*Edit*

@EXILED

while I do agree... the truth is its sorta lose-lose situation there..

Even if you had an iphone.. the fact is now new phones are constantly raising the bar..

So would you really sit back and go 'Oh I'm glad apple isn't coming out with a new phone, and that feature, the new droid has looks boring!'

Yes, that's a good point. But I think if you're truly an Apple fan, you would wait for Apple to release their new phone instead of going and buying a droid, right? Although I have no idea really since i'm anything but an Apple fan...