IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Well maybe people should get off their asses and do something about it instead of depending on government for another handout. People are afraid of sacrifice, god forbid if they had to give up facebook for a week.
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Repercussions of court ruling against F.C.C. and Net Neutrality
- Thread starter kamk2k8
- Start date
Well maybe people should get off their asses and do something about it instead of depending on government for another handout. People are afraid of sacrifice, god forbid if they had to give up facebook for a week.
mrqs
Android Expert
what do you suggest people do? found their own isp?
you're still under this delusion that someone's after free internet here - that's not the case and the government wouldn't be "handing out" anything
sacrifice implies there's something positive to be gained from a negative, which isn't the case here
and yes, people are afraid. afraid that they won't be able to access any of facebook's smaller competitors, because facebook inc payed their isp off
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
~ell its obvious to me you can't see past the short term on this, and why another power grab by the government would be a bad thing in the long run. Much worse thanwhat the isps were doing. In fact, they didn't even censor the internet, and in the past have showed no indications they even wanted to. So why you fear "x mifgt happen" over a government power grab which has time and time again proven to be abused to extremes. Hell, let's just appoint a world dictator and be done with it.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Successful? Now the feds can tap our wires at will for no reason at all with no warrant seems real successful to me =/
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Then wy hasn't obama reversed it yet? Also, not bushes fault terrorist decided to fly planes into our buildings.
momoceio
Android Expert
First you claim the regulation is a failure because of the patriot act...now it's OK because terrorists flew into our buildings? Because that's the only possible conclusion I can extrapolate from these two statements.
[most] conservatives have gone off the deep end as of late...it all makes sense in their mind, just not in reality
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Then why when I give you 2 + 2 you answer with 5?
Case in point: I'm sure you are still opposed to financial regulation because your beliefs are not influenced by anything that happens in reality, but rather by the blow hard republicans in washington that are doing they're mightiest to make sure our country stagnates and does nothing.
Issues are no longer looked at in terms of right or wrong but instead based on who is telling you to believe it...
it would be funny if it wasn't so sad
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Sinve when is something sad funny? What kind of person are you?
The market will sort itself out, and you guys are acting as if the isps have blocked access to anything. Quit trying to play fortune teller, and let history unfold. Or better yet, look at history as it tends be an accurate fortune teller in itself.
Like the model t, you could only get it black. Competitors realized people wanted choice, and there was more money to be made by offering said choice. It forced a revolution.
Fast forward to less than a year ago. Att and vzw were raising prices on wireless. Now with new ad campiegns, they are adding features and dropping plan rates (slightly) to stay compeitive with the market.
So if comcast says hey, we are going to filter your bandwidth. And att and vzw say advertise that they don't, you don't think people will jump ship? And if google gets into the isp biz, things may just get interesting. And since 4g is getting better, and cheaper, that too will drive competition. So why all the fuss, over some imaginary internet doomsday scenario in the first place?
Why all the fuss over some totalitarian regulation doomsday scenario in the first place?
mrqs
Android Expert
that's the key difference of opinion - i don't believe it will
of course people would, but the point is i don't believe a lot of them ever get the choice
"features" such as voip and tethering?
why are those even considered "features" is beyond me - there's no technical difference from the provider's point of view to ftp or irc, it's all the same bandwidth
+1
if the provider has to limit bandwidth when their routers max out, they're simply selling what they can't offer
instead they should either improve their network to handle the demand or sell lower bandwidth plans
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
1.) That is not opinion, it his historical fact.
2.) Tethering is not the same as data used on your phone. Computers can eat up data A LOT. Faster than a phone can.
3.) Tiered data plans don't make sense unless they are going to gaurantee that bandwidth. Prioritizing packets does actually make sense in a few cases, like my voip should be higher on the data chain than someone torrenting the latest hannah montannah episode. Security applications like ip cameras should take precedence over someone streaming youtube all day. Or your neighbor playing wow and downloading mp3s while you need an important career making video conference to japan to finalize that multimillion dollar deal because the oner suddenly got a case of cold feet. All cases where trafffic shaping would be more than acceptable.
mrqs
Android Expert
i realize that time is relative, but saying that something will happen is historical fact seems like a stretch
no they really can't
browsing to phandroid.com eats exactly the same amount of bandwidth regardless of whether you do it on your phone or on a tethered computer
it doesn't matter whether you're running spotify on your phone or tethering to run it on your computer
if you're downloading a file from a fast ftp (fast as in data plan being the bottleneck instead of the ftp), the speed you get with your phone doing the downloading is the same speed you'll get when you tether the phone and use the computer
all cases where traffic shaping would not be acceptable - the customers all payed for the same service, the isp shouldn't get to decide whose bandwidth usage is the most important
not to mention they should have no legal way of determining whether their customers are streaming a security feed or a youtube video in the first place
Caloy
Android Expert
What if every ISP started doing the same thing? Then you don't have a choice anymore. Everyone collaborated to do what Comcast did simply because they see that they can profit more from it.
Once laws were passed to deregulate the consumer interest rates, look at what happened once banks got free reign of how much they charge for interest. Personal Bankruptcy rates went up sky high, the housing market plummeted, car sales plummeted. Developers and car manufacturers lost business, some folded, most were in the brink of bankruptcy, we lost jobs, and the nation is in recession.
Same thing goes for the insurance companies when they got free reign on charging how much for coverage. All of a sudden they use your credit rating as one of their justification to increase your premiums. Even if they can just stop coverage the moment you stop paying. They have all sorts of justifications to increase all your premiums even if the main goal of insurance is to spread the risk over the populous thus getting the cost down.
I'm sorry I don't believe it will sort themselves out. Like I said before, businesses will bleed you dry if they can. It is in their interest to profit the most from you. Without regulation, there is nothing to protect the small business owner from major corporations and they will be pushed out of business. With out regulations, you are trusting a business to do the right thing for the consumer which is against their interest. With out regulations, it's every company's gain and there is nothing good for the consumer. Without regulations the company wins and the consumer loses.
Regulation is there to protect the consumer. If there is nor regulation, you will see this nation go down to ruin, and sad to say, it is the corporations greed that drove it to despair.
momoceio
Android Expert
Ahh, is this that logical content I was asking for? lol
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Well I know this debate got a little heated, and I would like to *personally* thank everyone for participating in the conversation. It is always good to have other points of view, even if you completely or partially disagree with them. That's how compromises are made.
Now back on topic. Instead of talking about the problem, how do we find a solution then, that doesn't involve a government power grab, but keeps the playing field fair?
Now back on topic. Instead of talking about the problem, how do we find a solution then, that doesn't involve a government power grab, but keeps the playing field fair?
momoceio
Android Expert
Only way that's going to happen is if ISPs and content providers work together and maybe write up some type of "pact" or something. Also, if ISPs can come out and tell their customers (and place in their ToS) that they will NOT block traffic or hinder our traffic in anyway then that would be a start. Now, I don't expect guaranteed bandwidth but obviously if I'm paying for a 10mb connection and only get 500kb down then there is a problem. Don't sell what you can't provide, simple as that.
I'd say try something like that out and if it works then great...if not then it's time for a different approach. i.e., FCC
I'd say try something like that out and if it works then great...if not then it's time for a different approach. i.e., FCC