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Romney vs. Obama

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Obama will not win my friend

At least he doesn't think that England is an insignificant island that's bad because of small houses and roads.
I mean who thinks England is an island? And the UK is insignificant? It only survived WWII by being surrounded by water?

Way to piss the only country in Europe that does more than grudgingly accept your country.
This guy is a moron, he can stay out of Europe and enjoy his trip to Israel where he shall condone further stealing of Palestinian land contrary to the international law his country was supposed to uphold. Funny to see he cancelled speeches in Germany and Poland, guess the ridicule would look too bad.
 
All this back and forth just proves that the parties are getting what they want. They're pitting us against each other. All your doing is their work for them.

Everytime you argue one point or another your basically a free political advert. Do you honestly think that the dems or the gop do anything out of the goodness of their hearts?

Personally I think what your watching now is the acceleration of a game that's been in play for a very long time (late 60's if not further back) to subvert this country for their own ends.

I've been playing this game around the house and at work. I call it,

"How to overthrow a country without a violent revolution"

1. Dumb down the education system to the point that people don't think for themselves.

2. Fill mass media with such brainless garbage that people spend more time thinking whose going to be the next American idol than the fact they're getting screwed from both sides.

3. Establish laws and regulations so that the little guy will always stay on the bottom and never have the chance to rise to his/her own full potential.

4. Establish programs that make the populace dependent on the government for their own existence.

And that's just a start. Do you think Obama is getting his money from the little guy? Do you think Romney isn't getting help from behind the scenes?

Both of these guys are having giant fundraisers that are closed to the public, media. Where only the super rich go. And even they have to give up their phones and cameras before they close the doors on $40,000 a plate dinners.

So don't fool yourselves, they're not doing any of this for you. You'll just be lucky if you can manipulate the system to get any kind of advantage out of it.
 
All this back and forth just proves that the parties are getting what they want. They're pitting us against each other. All your doing is their work for them.

Everytime you argue one point or another your basically a free political advert. Do you honestly think that the dems or the gop do anything out of the goodness of their hearts?

Yay so lets not argue points and continue to hold wrong opinions :-D

Personally I think what your watching now is the acceleration of a game that's been in play for a very long time (late 60's if not further back) to subvert this country for their own ends.
Who's own ends? What?

"How to overthrow a country without a violent revolution"

1. Dumb down the education system to the point that people don't think for themselves.

2. Fill mass media with such brainless garbage that people spend more time thinking whose going to be the next American idol than the fact they're getting screwed from both sides.

3. Establish laws and regulations so that the little guy will always stay on the bottom and never have the chance to rise to his/her own full potential.

4. Establish programs that make the populace dependent on the government for their own existence.
To an extent everyone is dependent on a government for their existence, ask Somalians.

And really I doubt that whole thing was simply planned out like that.

And that's just a start. Do you think Obama is getting his money from the little guy? Do you think Romney isn't getting help from behind the scenes?

Both of these guys are having giant fundraisers that are closed to the public, media. Where only the super rich go. And even they have to give up their phones and cameras before they close the doors on $40,000 a plate dinners.

So don't fool yourselves, they're not doing any of this for you. You'll just be lucky if you can manipulate the system to get any kind of advantage out of it.
A lot of politicians go into politics to make things better for people, heck maybe even Romney did, its hardly for the money.
 
A lot of politicians go into politics to make things better for people, heck maybe even Romney did, its hardly for the money.

Oh, the money is a huge factor. Local county commissioners here make more than the median salary for the county. Congressman make $174k a year. That's just what we pay them and doesn't count for the kickbacks and preferential treatment they get from the various businesses and rich taxpayers.

Perhaps some people go into politics to help people, but they certainly don't make a career of it for those purposes.
 
Oh, the money is a huge factor. Local county commissioners here make more than the median salary for the county.
Huge? I'd say most people in politics could make more money for less work if they stayed out of it. And shouldnt that be the case that they make more than the median? Although I guess low wages for the bottom 40% in the US horribly distort medians.

Perhaps some people go into politics to help people, but they certainly don't make a career of it for those purposes.
Certainly is such a certain term. There are plenty of politicians who still politic to help people.
 
I think it was more planned out than you may think. For example, the cia was started by a bunch of elites that held major power in one way or another. Be it monetary or political. They collaborated to bring stability to the world, and maybe at one time it was for a "good" reason. But as the old saying goes, power in and of itself has a corrupting influence.

Just look at any country throughout history. When the country first comes into being you will usually have a string of good leaders. But over time the leaders that follow care less and less about the people they're supposed to lead and only care for themselves.

I believe that the U.S. is in that state of decline. During the Roman empire you see this slow dissipation of the original reason behind the empire. To protect a small village on some hills in Italy. As time went on, those original families (for the most part) became more and more wealthy. Then you have this line of emporers who did nothing but live off of the greatness of those that came before. Until the people that they used to their own ends became so fed up that they started fighting back.
At first it didn't look like much. But over time these people became more and more aggressive until the Germanic tribes had enough and sacked Rome.

Yes, maybe there is a chance at a resurgence in leading this country on a better path. Since I sure as heck don't see a better alternative out there. And if you look into what the founding fathers put in to the constitution. There seems to be mechanisms expressly built in for this purpose. But you need to how that it hasn't become so twisted that the tools can't come into play.

My main point is we should work together to fix what is wrong, instead of just rooting for one side or the other. This isn't a football game folks. This is about the future that we leave behind for our children and their children...
 
And yet so few people are actually helped by politics.
Are you serious?

world_gdp_pop_v2.jpg


Without politics we would not have universal education, healthcare, roads, racial/sexual equality, rule of law, egalitarianism... or as that chart shows the wealth we have today.
 
I think it was more planned out than you may think. For example, the cia was started by a bunch of elites that held major power in one way or another. Be it monetary or political. They collaborated to bring stability to the world, and maybe at one time it was for a "good" reason. But as the old saying goes, power in and of itself has a corrupting influence.

I always thought the CIA was started around WWII to collect information for the US government.

Just look at any country throughout history. When the country first comes into being you will usually have a string of good leaders. But over time the leaders that follow care less and less about the people they're supposed to lead and only care for themselves.
Any country? Judging by the former soviet union and former European colonies your statement could not be much more off the mark.

I believe that the U.S. is in that state of decline.
..relative to the rest of the world. But compared to the developed world not so much. Europe's economic growth prospects dont look good and its influence is not what it should be.

During the Roman empire you see this slow dissipation of the original reason behind the empire. To protect a small village on some hills in Italy. As time went on, those original families (for the most part) became more and more wealthy. Then you have this line of emporers who did nothing but live off of the greatness of those that came before. Until the people that they used to their own ends became so fed up that they started fighting back.
At first it didn't look like much. But over time these people became more and more aggressive until the Germanic tribes had enough and sacked Rome.

Yes, maybe there is a chance at a resurgence in leading this country on a better path. Since I sure as heck don't see a better alternative out there. And if you look into what the founding fathers put in to the constitution. There seems to be mechanisms expressly built in for this purpose. But you need to how that it hasn't become so twisted that the tools can't come into play.
These founding fathers seem to have some sort of time machine what with how they are always the answer to todays problems.

My main point is we should work together to fix what is wrong, instead of just rooting for one side or the other. This isn't a football game folks. This is about the future that we leave behind for our children and their children...
The US doesnt seem to care about that far into the future, many of its people seem to think climate change is not an issue and that money should be more important than the environment.
 
There's so much history that is taught to people that is so wrong. The Cia was a copy of the British oss, the brits taught it's how to be good spies, while the Nazis were busy teaching the Bath party in Iraq and others how to hate Jews beyond any reason that could be explained through religion.

That's a start, then if you read more than the books your feed by the education system, you'd find out that Roosevelt and Churchill were cousins. And pearl harbor was just a ploy to get the U.S. into the war. If you don't think so. Take a look at what type of ships were there and what weren't. Lots of destroyers and battle ships, but oddly the aircraft carriers weren't there. Do they also tell you in those books that at first Hitler (not that I support his beliefs, God forbid) didn't want anything but to ship the Jews to Madagascar. It was Churchill's blockade of the European continent that pushed that lunatic into a corner.

As for present day issues. Firstly I'm so sick of hearing about the 1% crap. Yes they have a point absolutely, I'm a firm believer that the bailouts should never have happened. It'd hurt but the fools that were betting with other people's money didn't feel any of that pain. If there was any sense in this country. The tea party and the occupy people would stop being subverted from one side or the other and join forces. It's both wall street's fault and Washington's fault that we're at the place we are. But as some of the posts here show me. Y'all have taken the bait, hook line, and sinker. Wall street funds those fools in Washington who make laws that benefit themselves and their friends. Do you know how much money Nancy (you got to pass the bill before you can see what's in it) Pelosi has made from laws and regulation she's helped push through?

And Obamacare? Did anybody pay attention to the fact that that lovely piece of garbage wasn't even past legally? It was shoved through using the reconciliation process, not by a super majority, which is how it's supposed to be.

As I've said before. The system is being perverted to keep power in the hands of a few. Not you and I. Shoot there's still the question of where Barry was born. During the early 50's the was a law in Hawaii that said if you lived there for a year you could apply for a Birth certificate. But that's beside the point. If Obama had done what he said he'd do there would be people working on improving the ageing infrastructure of this country. We invented the web, but if you look at the numbers, Canada's slowest internet provider is faster than our fastest provider. This country is going to hell in a handbasket, and we're too busy bitching at each other to really do anything worth a damn... And I worry about the country my kids will inherit instead....
 
Without politics we would not have universal education, healthcare, roads, racial/sexual equality, rule of law, egalitarianism... or as that chart shows the wealth we have today.

Don't conflate politics with government. Government has a role and a job to do. Sometimes it does it better than others and it's certainly not perfect, but it does have a role and it can do some things better than any other entity can. Politics gets in the way of all of that by filling government with people who are in it for the money/power.

A few years ago our county commission shoved through a sales tax increase that was vehemently opposed by vast majority of the constituents. People were pissed beyond belief. When elections came around a year later every single one of them who voted for the increase lost their job. Every one of them gave interviews where they expressed confusion as to why. Two years later another third of the commission was up for re-election and they lost their jobs as well. Again they were confused as to why. Politicians just don't get it.

The US doesnt seem to care about that far into the future, many of its people seem to think climate change is not an issue and that money should be more important than the environment.

This is a perfect, text book example of why politics in this country is so wrong and jacked up. Why do people not care about climate change? Because the post child for it is Al Gore. People know he has no scientific background. Therefore he is perceived as being in it for political purposes. Because he is disliked by the right his message is dismissed completely. Because he is loved by the left his message is shoved forward without bothering to bring any facts to the table.
 
Don't conflate politics with government. Government has a role and a job to do. Sometimes it does it better than others and it's certainly not perfect, but it does have a role and it can do some things better than any other entity can. Politics gets in the way of all of that by filling government with people who are in it for the money/power.

Definition of POLITICS
1
a : the art or science of government
b : the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy
c : the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government

A few years ago our county commission shoved through a sales tax increase that was vehemently opposed by vast majority of the constituents. People were pissed beyond belief. When elections came around a year later every single one of them who voted for the increase lost their job. Every one of them gave interviews where they expressed confusion as to why. Two years later another third of the commission was up for re-election and they lost their jobs as well. Again they were confused as to why. Politicians just don't get it.
Perhaps they should've increased property tax instead. Last thing we need is politicians who are afraid to make the necessary decisions.

This is a perfect, text book example of why politics in this country is so wrong and jacked up. Why do people not care about climate change? Because the post child for it is Al Gore. People know he has no scientific background. Therefore he is perceived as being in it for political purposes. Because he is disliked by the right his message is dismissed completely. Because he is loved by the left his message is shoved forward without bothering to bring any facts to the table.

Bob Geldof promotes debt forgiveness and isnt an economist. Just because someone who isnt an expert in the field promotes something doesnt make them wrong (although it would make them less likely to be right).
I dont think Gore is running for any offices. Is it so hard to believe that a politician is trying to make the world a better place? Just because something is unpopular does not mean it shouldnt be promoted.
 
There's so much history that is taught to people that is so wrong. The Cia was a copy of the British oss, the brits taught it's how to be good spies, while the Nazis were busy teaching the Bath party in Iraq and others how to hate Jews beyond any reason that could be explained through religion.
I think the Jews were hated because after living peacefully in the Arab world for centuries they brought in a load of immigrants and took a chunk of land to make a state while alienating everyone.

That's a start, then if you read more than the books your feed by the education system, you'd find out that Roosevelt and Churchill were cousins. And pearl harbor was just a ploy to get the U.S. into the war. If you don't think so. Take a look at what type of ships were there and what weren't. Lots of destroyers and battle ships, but oddly the aircraft carriers weren't there. Do they also tell you in those books that at first Hitler (not that I support his beliefs, God forbid) didn't want anything but to ship the Jews to Madagascar. It was Churchill's blockade of the European continent that pushed that lunatic into a corner.
How is their being distant cousins relevant? I knew this from a project I did on FDR anyhow. And Roosevelt tried very hard to get provoked into war, but he didnt exactly stage Pearl Harbour tyvm.
So it was Churchill's fault? Dafuq? You want to blame any of the good guys you blame the French for being too harsh then being too nice.

As for present day issues. Firstly I'm so sick of hearing about the 1% crap. Yes they have a point absolutely, I'm a firm believer that the bailouts should never have happened. It'd hurt but the fools that were betting with other people's money didn't feel any of that pain. If there was any sense in this country. The tea party and the occupy people would stop being subverted from one side or the other and join forces. It's both wall street's fault and Washington's fault that we're at the place we are. But as some of the posts here show me. Y'all have taken the bait, hook line, and sinker. Wall street funds those fools in Washington who make laws that benefit themselves and their friends. Do you know how much money Nancy (you got to pass the bill before you can see what's in it) Pelosi has made from laws and regulation she's helped push through?
Bailouts were needed, the problem is that no new regulation was put in place. And the Tea Party are idiots who have no idea how to economics.

And Obamacare? Did anybody pay attention to the fact that that lovely piece of garbage wasn't even past legally? It was shoved through using the reconciliation process, not by a super majority, which is how it's supposed to be.
I always thought democracy worked by getting 50% + 1 in parliament, learn something new every day :rolleyes:

As I've said before. The system is being perverted to keep power in the hands of a few. Not you and I. Shoot there's still the question of where Barry was born. During the early 50's the was a law in Hawaii that said if you lived there for a year you could apply for a Birth certificate. But that's beside the point. If Obama had done what he said he'd do there would be people working on improving the ageing infrastructure of this country. We invented the web, but if you look at the numbers, Canada's slowest internet provider is faster than our fastest provider. This country is going to hell in a handbasket, and we're too busy bitching at each other to really do anything worth a damn... And I worry about the country my kids will inherit instead....
I'm pretty sure there is a reason so much of the US is being torn up for new infrastructure tbh. And do you want to nationalise broadband infrastructure? I think its a good idea but unless the government gets involved not much can be done.
Your worrying has led you to pick up some odd opinions and become paranoid. Although fear and paranoia seems to be the norm in the US.
 
Perhaps they should've increased property tax instead. Last thing we need is politicians who are afraid to make the necessary decisions.

Politicians are supposed to represent the people and are supposed to be fired when they fail to do so.

Bob Geldof promotes debt forgiveness and isnt an economist. Just because someone who isnt an expert in the field promotes something doesnt make them wrong (although it would make them less likely to be right).
I dont think Gore is running for any offices. Is it so hard to believe that a politician is trying to make the world a better place? Just because something is unpopular does not mean it shouldnt be promoted.

You're absolutely right and I'm not saying Gore is wrong because he's not a scientist. I'm saying he is a politically divisive figure who is pretty universally disliked by the right and accepted by the left. Gore could come out and say the sky is blue and the grass is green and half of the country is going to disagree with him.

Here environmental causes are strongly associated with the left. Partly because the left is percieved to be anti-business and especially anti-large businesses and frequently use the environmental club against said businesses. So we have global warming (an environmental cause) put forward by a politically polarizing figure. Is it a surprise it's unpopular here?

Bailouts were needed, the problem is that no new regulation was put in place. And the Tea Party are idiots who have no idea how to economics.

I disagree with the bailouts and I think most of Americans do. At least they do in this part. It was something that drew flack from both the left and the right which is pretty rare. Also, very few people in the US have any working knowledge of economics. Party is kind of irrelevant. Just saying.

I'm pretty sure there is a reason so much of the US is being torn up for new infrastructure tbh. And do you want to nationalise broadband infrastructure? I think its a good idea but unless the government gets involved not much can be done.
Your worrying has led you to pick up some odd opinions and become paranoid. Although fear and paranoia seems to be the norm in the US.

I've no idea what you mean by much of the US being torn up for infrastructure. I've certainly not seen this in my daily life, nor have I seen or heard anyone complaining about this. The ISPs here do suck because they don't want to put the money into their networks. Don't know how much you follow the inner workings of the networks this side of the pond, but they are almost all imposing bandwidth caps (even on the wired networks) and are pushing pretty strongly anti-net neutrality. They would love to be able to block certain kinds of traffic on their network completely just for bandwith purposes. They could simply lay more wire to improve their backbone, but doing so costs them money so they won't do it. Our network backbone here is going downhill over time.
 
... You're absolutely right and I'm not saying Gore is wrong because he's not a scientist. I'm saying he is a politically divisive figure who is pretty universally disliked by the right and accepted by the left. Gore could come out and say the sky is blue and the grass is green and half of the country is going to disagree with him. ...

Gore did win the popular vote in the 2000 Presidential election.;)
 
... During the early 50's the was a law in Hawaii that said if you lived there for a year you could apply for a Birth certificate. ...

The source is irrelevant. You would have to prove that actually happened not that it could've happened.

Poster made a statement of fact. The source is relevant. Poster is raising the discredited Birther lie, so if it could have happened, the cited law would be found on a Hawaiian gov web site, even if subsequently changed.
 
Gore did win the popular vote in the 2000 Presidential election.;)

....You're absolutely right and I'm not saying Gore is wrong because he's not a scientist. I'm saying he is a politically divisive figure who is pretty universally disliked by the right and accepted by the left. Gore could come out and say the sky is blue and the grass is green and half of the country is going to disagree with him. ...

Relevance to Gore and the environmental movement is what?

Not as politically divisive as you claim.
 
2000 Popular Vote: Gore - 50,999,897 48.38% Bush - 50,456,002 47.87%

difference out of 101,455,899 votes = 543,895 0.51%

yes clearly hes not politically divisive
 
Poster made a statement of fact. The source is relevant. Poster is raising the discredited Birther lie, so if it could have happened, the cited law would be found on a Hawaiian gov web site, even if subsequently changed.

Irrelevant. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that said law did indeed exist in the 50s. Does it mean the birth certificate was obtained that way? Not at all. It leads no credence at all to the Birther garbage. It is as irrelevant as stating that there the second of some month fell on a Tuesday in 1953. Unless you can connect the dots, it doesn't mean a thing.

Not as politically divisive as you claim.

I would say half and half is divisive. How is what is basically a 50/50 split not divisive?
 
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