ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
Show me where the Constitution requires a background check? Besides, criminals don't legally purchase their guns anyway. That makes the background check argument just useless leftist ramblings.
As can I.
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The stupidity about banning guns never ends...
- Thread starter chrlswltrs
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ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Good god, do you understand the purpose of a constitution?
"Show me where the Constitution stipulates mandatory testing of water quality at public beaches"
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
I believe that it is you that does not understand the constitution.
That's actually true!
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
My point is that just because something is not in the constitution, doesn't mean it shouldn't be legislated for. In this case, water testing at beaches, important for public health and the environment.
copestag
Android Expert
that is correct....... very few people would argue that healthy water is a bad thing..... but your comparing apples to oranges
this is a "what about the children" or "roads and bridges" typical liberal argument... it has absolutely nothing to do with nor adds anything to the discussion
would you also like to legislate the number of breaths a person is allowed to take during a day? after all wouldnt you also argue that more oxygen on the planet is a good thing?
that has about as much to do with the argument
there is a constitutional right to own firearms....... there is no constitutional right to clean water or oxygen
this is a "what about the children" or "roads and bridges" typical liberal argument... it has absolutely nothing to do with nor adds anything to the discussion
would you also like to legislate the number of breaths a person is allowed to take during a day? after all wouldnt you also argue that more oxygen on the planet is a good thing?
that has about as much to do with the argument
there is a constitutional right to own firearms....... there is no constitutional right to clean water or oxygen
sntaylor
Android Expert
Read this article when you posted it, but not really had the time to post a proper reply!
It is well written, and he is well qualified to talk on the matter, wether he is completely unbiased or open minded is another matter.
It is hard for anyone to argue against comments such as his essentially saying do you want kids to die, gun free zone means your child is going to die! It doesn't mean its right! Nor wrong!
The problem is that from that perception guns are not the problem, but mental health issues are..... However, if guns were banned, as identified, most shootings on this scale are not known criminals but people with a mental health problem, then this type of shooting would not happen, as I have stated many times, it would only be your hardened criminals that are able to get a gun with any ease.
The problem then is that you wouldn't give up your gun, this means due to the current numbers, there would still be a problem if a ban was to be put in place! Any ban would have to be followed through and agreed to by all law abiding citizens. Many would then come off the streets in a fairly short time with proper policing of the streets.
Then attention can be put on helping to solve the issues of why people want to commit mass murder, why they are so afraid that they will be robbed, raped or murdered. And why people do commit these crimes!
No society is perfect, but that should never stop being the aim! Would you not rather live in a society where the only death is accidental/natural selection?
Copestag has actually hit the nail on the head with the real problem in mentality, that I cannot understand, but you also have.....
Clean air and water (essentially the right to live) isn't in the constitution but gun ownership is! Though not strictly true as it doesn't say guns it says arms..... Most notably bear arms, but I don't think there are enough bears left ;-)
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Personally I think it's a gross overstatement to say that all or most or even a large percentage of those who commit gun crimes are mentally ill.
pbf98
Android Expert
Watching discussions on the matter in congress I saw this the other night and I found her "answer" to be a little childish
The TX senator poses a good question to her and all she responds with her experience in congress and other government..
She says that she respects his opinions and views and asks for him to do the same.. For someone to respect someone else's views and personal opinions shouldn't they not be trying to change them? I do not believe she truly respects his views or opinions on this subject, just as I do not respect her opinion since she is trying to force it on everyone.
I respect peoples personal views and their personal opinions, but thats where they should be left, personal. When someone attempts to force their opinion on someone or myself thats where I say no more, and thats where I get defensive.
Just because you have more experience does not make you the better one, it sure gives you an upper hand, but to say you're right because you have the most experience is ignorant.
The TX senator poses a good question to her and all she responds with her experience in congress and other government..
She says that she respects his opinions and views and asks for him to do the same.. For someone to respect someone else's views and personal opinions shouldn't they not be trying to change them? I do not believe she truly respects his views or opinions on this subject, just as I do not respect her opinion since she is trying to force it on everyone.
I respect peoples personal views and their personal opinions, but thats where they should be left, personal. When someone attempts to force their opinion on someone or myself thats where I say no more, and thats where I get defensive.
Just because you have more experience does not make you the better one, it sure gives you an upper hand, but to say you're right because you have the most experience is ignorant.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
HA HA HA . . . the Assault Weapons Ban was just DEFEATED and Feinstein is beside herself.
It is a good day!
According to the poll data, this was a ban almost everyone wanted. Apparently, not; apparently, we were lied to once again.
lightsleeper23
Android Enthusiast
But that is precisely what the zero regulation advocates are doing is it not? And have been doing quite successfully for some time. Forcing their opinion on the rest of the country. Its ridiculous to even bring the constitution into the argument too because the constitution gives the right to own guns but it doesn't specify how many or which ones. Not only that but it says a well regulated militia. So even right there it offers regulation as part of the deal. Nobody in American government is trying to take away guns from the people, even though that's what the right keeps screaming senselessly about, so the constitution is not at issue. As for forcing opinions, the majority of Americans would like to see a tiny freaking bit of sensible regulation...universal background checks etc. to try to SLIGHTLY minimize the number of deaths but no. The freaks flip out and start screaming about the constitution and "gun grabbing" and just insist that there be NO regulation of ANY KIND WHATSOEVER.
Well I could care less about the tantrums of the gun nuts. My opinion does not infringe on their right to own an arsenal of deadly weapons on display in their living room if they so choose, so their fits mean nothing to me. My ability to walk down the street without being in danger of getting shot is most definitely being infringed upon. I may not have a constitutional guarantee of not being in danger of getting shot, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make sure fewer people get shot. I will never stop fighting for that.
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
Agreed, great day for America!
Now if they can just shoot down the universal registration which only leads to confiscation things might return to normal until the next tragedy that Obama wants to use to push another anti-American agenda.
Hopefully some of the panic buying will slow down now so I can buy some ammo to practice with!
lightsleeper23
Android Enthusiast
Universal registration is nothing but a good idea and is not a step towards confiscation. Only conspiracy nuts would think so. You have to register many things, including vehicles, but no one uses that to confiscate them. And before freaking out about "driving is a privilege not a constitutional right...blah blah blah", I didn't say anything about driving. You register to simply OWN a car, which anybody can do whether they have driving privileges or not. Same with a home or property. Many types of ownership are registered.
Gun registration is smart. It would help, along with a universal data base, make sure people that have lost the right to own a firearm don't have easy access to one that, maybe someone in their household owns. Its just like when someone is on parole and can't have access to firearms, the PO goes to the house they will be living in and makes sure no one else keeps guns on the premises.
And I wouldn't talk about so called "anti-american" agendas, considering the majority of American people favor sensible gun laws. So if anything I'd say maybe your positions are anti-American? The extreme right wing politicians who are controlled by the NRA and other gun lobbies did not carry out the will of the majority of voters.
Gun registration is smart. It would help, along with a universal data base, make sure people that have lost the right to own a firearm don't have easy access to one that, maybe someone in their household owns. Its just like when someone is on parole and can't have access to firearms, the PO goes to the house they will be living in and makes sure no one else keeps guns on the premises.
And I wouldn't talk about so called "anti-american" agendas, considering the majority of American people favor sensible gun laws. So if anything I'd say maybe your positions are anti-American? The extreme right wing politicians who are controlled by the NRA and other gun lobbies did not carry out the will of the majority of voters.
copestag
Android Expert
as has been said in the past..... and should be said many times again
no new law that you can think of.... including registration background checks... etc etc
can do any better job at preventing gun crimes than simply enforcing the laws currently on the books
you still dont seem to grasp the concept that the criminals who commit these crimes dont care about the laws..... maybe we need more "gun free zones"... that should stop them
you do realize they were breaking several laws when they shot the people... it didnt seem to slow them down.... you believe a background check or universal registration would have stopped any of them?
background checks were performed for every gun that Holmes purchased before shooting up a theater in CO........ all the guns in Newtown were registered..... how would your new laws have stopped either of those shootings?
the guns used in columbine were obtained illegally...... no new law will stop that
the guns used at Virginia Tech were obtained legally after he passed a Federal background check...... your new law wouldnt have stopped him
so please tell me...... exactly who are you going to stop with universal registration?
all of these weapons were either illegally purchased (you think those will be registered?) or they were purchased legally after passing Federal background checks ...... and in 1 case (newtown) the weapons WERE registered........ yet these incidents still occurred
so once again......... please oh please tell me who this is going to stop?
I dont believe registration leads to confiscation necessarily......... but I also dont believe registration leads to reduce crime under any stretch of the imagination....... and honestly you dont believe that either....... but it sure sounds like a good talking point doesnt it?
as for the car analogy......... no you do not have to register a car simply to own it (depending on your state of course)....... you only have to register it to drive it on public motorways...... you can own and drive an unregistered vehicle on your own property forever without any problem....... of course thats a state issue........ the federal government isnt in the car registration business
no new law that you can think of.... including registration background checks... etc etc
can do any better job at preventing gun crimes than simply enforcing the laws currently on the books
you still dont seem to grasp the concept that the criminals who commit these crimes dont care about the laws..... maybe we need more "gun free zones"... that should stop them
you do realize they were breaking several laws when they shot the people... it didnt seem to slow them down.... you believe a background check or universal registration would have stopped any of them?
background checks were performed for every gun that Holmes purchased before shooting up a theater in CO........ all the guns in Newtown were registered..... how would your new laws have stopped either of those shootings?
the guns used in columbine were obtained illegally...... no new law will stop that
the guns used at Virginia Tech were obtained legally after he passed a Federal background check...... your new law wouldnt have stopped him
so please tell me...... exactly who are you going to stop with universal registration?
all of these weapons were either illegally purchased (you think those will be registered?) or they were purchased legally after passing Federal background checks ...... and in 1 case (newtown) the weapons WERE registered........ yet these incidents still occurred
so once again......... please oh please tell me who this is going to stop?
I dont believe registration leads to confiscation necessarily......... but I also dont believe registration leads to reduce crime under any stretch of the imagination....... and honestly you dont believe that either....... but it sure sounds like a good talking point doesnt it?
as for the car analogy......... no you do not have to register a car simply to own it (depending on your state of course)....... you only have to register it to drive it on public motorways...... you can own and drive an unregistered vehicle on your own property forever without any problem....... of course thats a state issue........ the federal government isnt in the car registration business
lightsleeper23
Android Enthusiast
You don't know what I believe or don't believe. I'm telling you I absolutely believe background checks and registration could help prevent some crimes. This is all in conjunction with a focus on mental health as well. Of course as long as guns exist there will be many gun crimes, there's no way to stop them all. But I sincerely believe we can cut down on it. And there's nothing for the gun nuts to lose. Aww, you have to go through a bit of annoyance for a more thorough background check? So sad. You have to register your weapon? Terrible. It's just plain selfish.
copestag
Android Expert
then I believe you are absolutely dillusional
you already go through a background check by the FBI before purchasing a gun..... nobody..... not one single lawmaker has proposed changing the way that background check is performed
a background check is not an annoyance to anyone........ they are already performed..... who cares....... that hasnt and will not change under any proposed law
and as I have already pointed out to you......... even the most extensive background check would not have stopped a single one of these mass murders....... the proof is there...... they were checked and the murders still happened
and gun registration would not have stopped a single one of these murders
lets use your liberal gun grabbing nutjob (see I can step on the shortbus and call names too) talking point ....... has auto registration led to a single decrease in crimes involving automobiles? not one single crime was stopped due to registration
if anything the facts point to increased crimes due to gun registration.... lets look at the east coast where under the FOIA gun restration information was printed in the newspaper with a detailed map and list of guns owned..... then all of a sudden there was a rash of burglaries in these homes to steal the guns
this is the equivalent of requiring everyone to register their jewelry and cash stored in the home
I still ask.... what criminal are you going to stop through gun registration? give me at least one scenario...... stupid or not (well we already know which option that would be) ...... where a registered gun would prevent someone from using that gun in a crime
you already go through a background check by the FBI before purchasing a gun..... nobody..... not one single lawmaker has proposed changing the way that background check is performed
a background check is not an annoyance to anyone........ they are already performed..... who cares....... that hasnt and will not change under any proposed law
and as I have already pointed out to you......... even the most extensive background check would not have stopped a single one of these mass murders....... the proof is there...... they were checked and the murders still happened
and gun registration would not have stopped a single one of these murders
lets use your liberal gun grabbing nutjob (see I can step on the shortbus and call names too) talking point ....... has auto registration led to a single decrease in crimes involving automobiles? not one single crime was stopped due to registration
if anything the facts point to increased crimes due to gun registration.... lets look at the east coast where under the FOIA gun restration information was printed in the newspaper with a detailed map and list of guns owned..... then all of a sudden there was a rash of burglaries in these homes to steal the guns
this is the equivalent of requiring everyone to register their jewelry and cash stored in the home
I still ask.... what criminal are you going to stop through gun registration? give me at least one scenario...... stupid or not (well we already know which option that would be) ...... where a registered gun would prevent someone from using that gun in a crime
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
Not completely true. I personally made my first 3 gun purchases with no background check at all. It is prefectly legal to buy a gun through a private sale without a background check.
Also when you buy a rifle your name is checked against those on NICS, not the FBI. The more through background check is only conducted when buying a handgun, which is why there is a wait time to purchase a handgun.
Now do I think this should change? No. Someone that is going to go out and shoot people with a gun isn't going to bother finding someone with a gun that he can buy, he is just going to steal it. The vast majority of guns used in crimes were never purchased by the criminal, they were stolen. Background checks would not have helped at all and neither would registration.
The solution is simple:
1. Enforce current gun laws
2. Don't have defenseless victim zones
3. Quit demonizing a tool because the real problem is too difficult.
Also when you buy a rifle your name is checked against those on NICS, not the FBI. The more through background check is only conducted when buying a handgun, which is why there is a wait time to purchase a handgun.
Now do I think this should change? No. Someone that is going to go out and shoot people with a gun isn't going to bother finding someone with a gun that he can buy, he is just going to steal it. The vast majority of guns used in crimes were never purchased by the criminal, they were stolen. Background checks would not have helped at all and neither would registration.
The solution is simple:
1. Enforce current gun laws
2. Don't have defenseless victim zones
3. Quit demonizing a tool because the real problem is too difficult.
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Copestag makes a very, very strong argument to the contrary by pointing out several cases where mass murders were committed with guns that had been registered and the people doing the killing had passed a federal background check. Background checks and registration did not prevent any of them.
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I don't think he's necessarily saying that background checks and registration are a bad idea, just that the argument that they're going to prevent crimes somehow is kind of fallacious.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Or ban guns.
That wasn't so difficult
Will never happen in a country where the right to own a gun is a Constitutional guarantee.
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
As I've said before: it's an amendment. Amend it.
How hard can that be ..?
*cough*
How hard can that be ..?
*cough*
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Yeah. Very simple to strike down the Second Amendment. Why not fix world hunger while we're at it? All you have to do is feed people. It's very simple.
The press and bunches of representatives stated Americans wanted and demanded gun control and dear Harry had to finally say there was insufficient support and that means Americans do not want their brand of control. Ownership is a Constitutional right. HIPPOS laws will never allow for the screening of people and only outlaws will have arms. Maybe we should outlaw weapons for Congress.
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
Let's go ahead and amend the 1st, 4th and 6th amendments too. I know Obama would love it if every time anyone said anything negative about him he could just arrest that person, throw them in jail, and seize all of their assets for government redistribution.
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