The stupidity about banning guns never ends...

[chrlswltrs]

The press and bunches of representatives stated Americans wanted and demanded gun control

You are correct, that is why rallies in the last several months in support of the 2nd amendment have had hundreds or thousands of supporters, while gun control rallies have had dozens. The people have spoken, the overwhelming majority do not want more gun control laws regardless of what the media lies and says.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

You don't know what I believe or don't believe. I'm telling you I absolutely believe background checks and registration could help prevent some crimes. This is all in conjunction with a focus on mental health as well. Of course as long as guns exist there will be many gun crimes, there's no way to stop them all. But I sincerely believe we can cut down on it. And there's nothing for the gun nuts to lose. Aww, you have to go through a bit of annoyance for a more thorough background check? So sad. You have to register your weapon? Terrible. It's just plain selfish.

So ... if it's not a big deal to get a background check (which costs money) or to register a weapon ... are you OK with Voter ID laws? Awww you have to go through a bit of annoyance ...

 

[lightsleeper23]

So ... if it's not a big deal to get a background check (which costs money) or to register a weapon ... are you OK with Voter ID laws? Awww you have to go through a bit of annoyance ...

Apples and oranges. You can't murder people with a vote.

With that said. I have an ID, so it doesn't bother me PERSONALLY to show ID when I vote. But there are many people who don't have ID, and the republicans know they're mostly minorities who vote Democrat. That's the one and only real reason why they push these laws through. The republican m.o. is to suppress the vote of the other party. Its the only way they can win.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

Apples and oranges. You can't murder people with a vote.

With that said. I have an ID, so it doesn't bother me PERSONALLY to show ID when I vote. But there are many people who don't have ID, and the republicans know they're mostly minorities who vote Democrat. That's the one and only real reason why they push these laws through. The republican m.o. is to suppress the vote of the other party. Its the only way they can win.

It's called an analogy ...

It's a lot harder to buy a handgun (relatively speaking) than to get a voter ID card. I recently moved to NC and when i actually vote - nothing. I just gave them my name and address. I could have voted in place of my next door neighbor just by giving his name and address. And I think a lot of people would argue that VOTING is kind of important.

That's the point really ... owning a gun is a right. Voting is a right. you must show ID to buy a gun. why not show ID to vote? All I want is for those that vote to be eligible and have ID to show who they are. That's incredibly simple. It's got nothing to do with minorities and who will vote for who.

Heck, I'd be OK with what Iraq used to use ... remember the fingers dipped in ink. At least they know that folks are only voting once. What about other countries ... do they require ID to vote? (I honestly don't know).

Sorry for getting off track .. i know this thread is about banning guns, etc. I will not address voting any more in this thread.

 

[lightsleeper23]

then I believe you are absolutely dillusional

you already go through a background check by the FBI before purchasing a gun..... nobody..... not one single lawmaker has proposed changing the way that background check is performed

a background check is not an annoyance to anyone........ they are already performed..... who cares....... that hasnt and will not change under any proposed law


and as I have already pointed out to you......... even the most extensive background check would not have stopped a single one of these mass murders....... the proof is there...... they were checked and the murders still happened

and gun registration would not have stopped a single one of these murders

lets use your liberal gun grabbing nutjob (see I can step on the shortbus and call names too) talking point ....... has auto registration led to a single decrease in crimes involving automobiles? not one single crime was stopped due to registration

if anything the facts point to increased crimes due to gun registration.... lets look at the east coast where under the FOIA gun restration information was printed in the newspaper with a detailed map and list of guns owned..... then all of a sudden there was a rash of burglaries in these homes to steal the guns

this is the equivalent of requiring everyone to register their jewelry and cash stored in the home

I still ask.... what criminal are you going to stop through gun registration? give me at least one scenario...... stupid or not (well we already know which option that would be) ...... where a registered gun would prevent someone from using that gun in a crime

I could offer you scenarios, but then you'd use typical gun nut talking points to strike it down. At least that's how it would seem in your mind. I do realize some of these mass shootings used legally purchased guns. I even admitted we can't stop but an very limited number of gun violence cases. But since we can't stop them all the gun nuts would rather do NOTHING at all about the problem. Oh, enforce current laws you say? Yeah right. You say that now, but the gun nuts would love to repeal all gun laws if they had the chance. Besides, without a crackdown on mental health, and universal background checks and registration, the laws are limp. Of course background checks are not going to keep criminals from stealing guns, nobody said it would, and that's all the gun nuts want to focus on: what the laws CAN'T stop, while ignoring what they could. And if you believe they could not prevent even one single case, then I believe YOU are extremely delusional.

 

[lightsleeper23]

It's called an analogy ...

It's a lot harder to buy a handgun (relatively speaking) than to get a voter ID card. I recently moved to NC and when i actually vote - nothing. I just gave them my name and address. I could have voted in place of my next door neighbor just by giving his name and address. And I think a lot of people would argue that VOTING is kind of important.

That's the point really ... owning a gun is a right. Voting is a right. you must show ID to buy a gun. why not show ID to vote? All I want is for those that vote to be eligible and have ID to show who they are. That's incredibly simple. It's got nothing to do with minorities and who will vote for who.

Heck, I'd be OK with what Iraq used to use ... remember the fingers dipped in ink. At least they know that folks are only voting once. What about other countries ... do they require ID to vote? (I honestly don't know).

Sorry for getting off track .. i know this thread is about banning guns, etc. I will not address voting any more in this thread.

Because this supposed voter fraud going on isn't nearly as big of a problem as the Republicans trying to suppress the vote say it is. Gun violence on the other hand is tremendously widespread. Yes voting is important, but it can't kill even one person. Guns kill millions.

But this is another reason to have a single federal voting system. The more modern and computerized things get, the harder to walk in and vote as someone else.

 

[lightsleeper23]

You are correct, that is why rallies in the last several months in support of the 2nd amendment have had hundreds or thousands of supporters, while gun control rallies have had dozens. The people have spoken, the overwhelming majority do not want more gun control laws regardless of what the media lies and says.

Classic. When the media says something you don't like, they're lying. When they say something you do like, they're proving your point. Never mind facts, never mind polling data. They said something you didn't like, so they MUST be lying. Just like with the unemployment numbers. When they were bad you republicans used them as the reason obama was bad. When they got good, all of the sudden theyre a lie, theyve been forged, you cant trust them.Typical republican denial. How's the weather there in that bubble?

 

[Bob Maxey]

I could offer you scenarios, but then you'd use typical gun nut talking points to strike it down. At least that's how it would seem in your mind.

Due tell . . . what exactly is a 'gin nut?' I like guns. Am I a gun nut? Cite a few examples of these talking points please.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Just like with the unemployment numbers. When they were bad you republicans used them as the reason obama was bad. When they got good, all of the sudden theyre a lie, theyve been forged, you cant trust them.Typical republican denial. How's the weather there in that bubble?

The numbers ARE bad. Obama did nothing to create jobs. his leadership (yes, I am laughing too) has been a bust. Many of these jobs are government work and that, my friend, is not the kind of jobs we need.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Because this supposed voter fraud going on isn't nearly as big of a problem as the Republicans trying to suppress the vote say it is. Gun violence on the other hand is tremendously widespread. Yes voting is important, but it can't kill even one person. Guns kill millions.

But this is another reason to have a single federal voting system. The more modern and computerized things get, the harder to walk in and vote as someone else.

Any and all voter fraud is bad, period. If a voter ID will help, lets get 'er done.

 

[sntaylor]

Ban guns, those law abiding citizens get rid if them, and people cant get stealing guns to use.

This is the argument I've used all the time!

Yes criminals will still smuggle them in, make them even, the same as drugs, but the stealing argument is null and void!

people needing a weapon for defence is a problem that should be getting sorted too!

 

[A.Nonymous]

Ban guns, those law abiding citizens get rid if them, and people cant get stealing guns to use.

This is the argument I've used all the time!

Yes criminals will still smuggle them in, make them even, the same as drugs, but the stealing argument is null and void!

people needing a weapon for defence is a problem that should be getting sorted too!

Banning guns doesn't get rid of them though. We tried banning alcohol. Did that get rid of the problem?

 

[Bob Maxey]

Banning guns doesn't get rid of them though. We tried banning alcohol. Did that get rid of the problem?

As with guns, most alcohol users are responsible people.

Do you know the history of temperance in this country? Do you know why alcohol was banned and who was behind the ban?

Besides, even though alcohol was banned, getting a drink was not a problem. Just like banning guns will not affect my ability to get one.

 

[copestag]

Ban guns, those law abiding citizens get rid if them, and people cant get stealing guns to use.

This is the argument I've used all the time!

Yes criminals will still smuggle them in, make them even, the same as drugs, but the stealing argument is null and void!

people needing a weapon for defence is a problem that should be getting sorted too!

brilliant idea

while we are at it we should also ban heroine and meth (wait theyre already banned)

we should also ban rape and murder (wait theyre already banned)

hell we should just ban all crime (wait all crime is already banned...... thats why its called crime)

law abiding citizens arent the ones committing crimes

make criminals smuggle them in just like they have to with drugs? yep that works pretty well....... very few drugs in this country

didnt work in your country either

 

[lightsleeper23]

Any and all voter fraud is bad, period. If a voter ID will help, lets get 'er done.

Oh you're all for new laws to combat a small number of a tiny crime that doesn't physically hurt anyone, but making a law to combat an admittedly small number of a VERY widespread problem that kills hundreds of thousands a year? Nah, not worth it. Don't get 'er done.

 

[lightsleeper23]

Due tell . . . what exactly is a 'gin nut?' I like guns. Am I a gun nut? Cite a few examples of these talking points please.

Oh you know very well what I'm talking about. The freaks that LOVE guns on an almost sexual level. The bigger, the badder, the better. Makes them feel powerful. Got to make up for what is lacking somehow. Some of us don't need to go out and fire off a cannon to feel like a man.

 

[ItnStln511]

The numbers ARE bad. Obama did nothing to create jobs. his leadership (yes, I am laughing too) has been a bust. Many of these jobs are government work and that, my friend, is not the kind of jobs we need.

No kidding there!

Any and all voter fraud is bad, period. If a voter ID will help, lets get 'er done.

Exactly! I have to show an ID to get into work, the airport, etc. But I can vote without an ID? What a joke!

Banning guns doesn't get rid of them though. We tried banning alcohol. Did that get rid of the problem?

It just made it worse.

law abiding citizens arent the ones committing crimes

Bingo! Pretty soon only the criminals will be able to get guns in this country.

make criminals smuggle them in just like they have to with drugs? yep that works pretty well....... very few drugs in this country

They already are smuggling guns into this country. What's to say that it'll stop when us who purchase guns legally won't be able to get a gun anymore?

didnt work in your country either

Yes, how's that working out?

Oh you're all for new laws to combat a small number of a tiny crime that doesn't physically hurt anyone, but making a law to combat an admittedly small number of a VERY widespread problem that kills hundreds of thousands a year? Nah, not worth it. Don't get 'er done.

Fraud is fraud is fraud. Voter fraud needs to be squashed, I don't care which party they are FRAUDULENTLY voting for. Nobody is physically hurt by identity theft, so are you saying that those crimes shouldn't be investigated? I bet if the fraudulent voters were voting Republican, you'd be against it.

 

[lightsleeper23]

Oh so now you're saying all fraudulent voting is for democrats? What a world you live in. And no I'm not saying crimes of any kind shouldn't be investigated. I'm saying voter fraud is minimal to non existent and voter ID laws hurt FAR more than they help. Background checks and registration hurt nobody except people who aren't allowed to own guns. Instead of asking me why I'm against voter ID laws, which has been covered, why don't you give a GOOD reason why you're against background checks and registration for gun ownership? Emphasis on a GOOD reason, not ramblings about crimes it CAN'T prevent, or the psycho babble about gun grabbing. Why not do these things? Who do they hurt?

 

[chrlswltrs]

Someone please answer this question if you want guns banned... There are over 100,000,000 gun owners in America (including me) and 18 mass murders last year. How are gun owners the problem?

It is a very, extremely, small fraction of a percentage of gun owners that will ever use a gun to commit a crime at all, let alone murder. A gun is a tool, nothing more. A gun can not kill anyone without someone holding it, aiming it, and pulling the trigger (despite what people say about the magical AR15 that killed people at Sandy Hook without ever entering the building)

Plus how many murders have been prevented with a gun? Thousands of home invasions every year, plus 2 mass murders just in the last 6 months cut short due to legally armed private citizens (Oregon mall and theater in San Antonio)

 

[sntaylor]

brilliant idea

while we are at it we should also ban heroine and meth (wait theyre already banned)

we should also ban rape and murder (wait theyre already banned)

hell we should just ban all crime (wait all crime is already banned...... thats why its called crime)

law abiding citizens arent the ones committing crimes

make criminals smuggle them in just like they have to with drugs? yep that works pretty well....... very few drugs in this country

didnt work in your country either

Surprise surprise, same stuff spouted over and over, Have you got that saved just for any time a ban is mentioned? Did you bother to read what else I said? I specifically said they would still be smuggled in! Even be hand crafted illegally!

My point is that they become harder to get, your average criminal would not hold them, especially
If the punishment was severe enough!

I also know, due to your countries history with guns, it ain't going to happen!

Banning drugs etc hasn't stopped then in our country, but banning hand guns has meant that only gangs have them, and even then shootings are rare. I've heard of the police attending possible gun incidents over here on a few occasions, and they have all been for toy guns!

and it really is funny that in a country with a gun ban (completely gun free zone, legally) I don't have a fear of someone breaking in and robbing or beating me, I'll happily walk up the street without fear or the need to carry something for protection! But hey, we are just cannon fodder after all!

 

[chrlswltrs]

sntaylor, you keep popping up in different threads about the gun debate in America. You don't live in America and do not have the legal right to own firearms in your country. Quit trying to argue that we shouldn't have that right either just because you are jealous of our RIGHTS.

And, conveniently you always seem to just skip over my posts that give logical, reasonable reasons to not make more laws. If you want to continue your jealous ramblings, please address my common sense posts also.

 

[copestag]

first....... you do not have a gun free zone..... so please dont spread fiction

and admittedly there is a different mentality in the UK as a whole than there is in the US......... the overall crime rates are drastically different.. let alone gun crimes

you cant compare 2 totally different societies and expect similar results

back to the "completely gun free zone, legally" :

using 2007 numbers released by scottish govt:

there are approx 212K registered firearms in civilian posession in Scotland........ there are an estimated 280K actual firearms in civilian posession....... that leaves about 68K that are illegal firearms in your country

just to put that in easier to understand numbers....... thats about 4% of the civilian population owns a gun of some type legally....... and a little over 1% of the population has illegal guns....... not huge numbers...... but pretty big for a "completely gun free zone"

and although you had a large drop in gun related homicides after enacting the laws....... it only looks large on paper........ when you go from 4 a year to 2 a year thats a 50% decrease...... you never had a problem before enacting new laws...... and your new laws (correct me if Im wrong... circa 1994) didnt do a heck of a lot of anything....... unless you consider a drop of 1-2 deaths a year as huge

and have you bothered to read anything anyone has written........ yes you are correct they will still be smuggled in...... in huge numbers...... much as they already are...... much as drugs which are already banned are smuggled in

you will not stop criminals from getting guns...... all youre doing is suggesting that law abiding citizens should be scrutinized for no good reason..... they are not the problem....

and yes it does need repeating because the sky is falling crowd just cant grasp the concept..... law abiding citizens are not the criminals....... and no ban or dare I say it... complete confiscation.... will do anything to curtail the deaths

its a social problem not a gun problem

although it should be mentioned that the rate of homicide per 100,000 by any method (they still murder people there.. they just prefer knives and other weapons) in Scotland is about 40% of the US rate........ thats actually staggering considering the US is 60 times more populated

 

[A.Nonymous]

Oh so now you're saying all fraudulent voting is for democrats? What a world you live in. And no I'm not saying crimes of any kind shouldn't be investigated. I'm saying voter fraud is minimal to non existent and voter ID laws hurt FAR more than they help. Background checks and registration hurt nobody except people who aren't allowed to own guns. Instead of asking me why I'm against voter ID laws, which has been covered, why don't you give a GOOD reason why you're against background checks and registration for gun ownership? Emphasis on a GOOD reason, not ramblings about crimes it CAN'T prevent, or the psycho babble about gun grabbing. Why not do these things? Who do they hurt?

What kind of crimes would registration and/or background checks prevent? Please understand I'm not saying either of these things are bad, just that they're not good preventatives to crime.

 

[A.Nonymous]

and it really is funny that in a country with a gun ban (completely gun free zone, legally) I don't have a fear of someone breaking in and robbing or beating me, I'll happily walk up the street without fear or the need to carry something for protection! But hey, we are just cannon fodder after all!

I don't fear someone breaking in and robbing or beating me. Nor do I walk up and down the street in fear. Most Americans don't. Most Americans don't feel the need to carry anything for protection either. Yes, there are bad neighborhoods here, but there are bad neighborhoods in every city in the world.

 

[pequeajim]

I agree, I think that giving out permits for concealed carry is ridiculous without some kind of a background check. I have a concealed carry permit, and own several guns, but I do not think that we can go blatantly crazy in the other direction and just give anybody the right to carry a gun.