IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
For me it was the local news that shed the light on it for me.... and his refusal to do so really sparked the interest.
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There's nothing funny about the Gulf...
- Thread starter hakr100
- Start date
For me it was the local news that shed the light on it for me.... and his refusal to do so really sparked the interest.
Vihzel
Destroying Balls Everyday
It was one of the many scare tactics that the GOP used against Obama during the election. What's more to fear than a non-citizen trying to grab the presidency? If he was truly not a citizen, then would it have been going on for this long considering he's been in politics for quite some time? If it's really that easy... then I guess we have our first illegal as president. Wow our national security sucks like hell if that is true.
Important Note: In this post, when I mention Republicans, I mean the Republican politicians and leadership. When I mention Democrats I also mean Democrat politicians and leadership. In no way am I stating that everyone person who is a Republican is such a way and vice versa for Democrats. I am not referring to YOU the reader. (Unless you happen to be a Republican politician in the U.S Congress)
Again, just another theory I am throwing out. I feel like Republican political strategy is to undermine Democrats if Democrats are in power and then use that as a way to win back Congress and the White House. Going back to 1992 when Clinton became President. Republicans cried foul and argued he did not deserve to actually be President because he did not win a majority of the populous vote because of Ross Perot. This undermines the legitimacy of Clinton's Presidency from the beginning. Then the GOP made strong attempts at slowing down the machinery of the government to convince people that Clinton specifically and Democrats in general are incompetent. This worked and in 1994, Republicans swept the midterm elections winning back both chambers of Congress. However, the GOP took it too far in trying to bring the machinery of government to a halt. Congress failed to pass a budget and the Federal government stop working without any money. The people blamed Republicans for this because Republicans had the majority in Congress. Then the OKC bombing occurred and Clinton handled that tragedy very well, so people started having a more favorable view of Clinton. The economy coincidently picked up during this time and Clinton handily won re-election.
When Bush "won" the election in 2000, suddenly no Republican cared that he did not win a majority of the populous vote. Even though Clinton did not win a majority, at least he won more votes than Bush Sr. with 43% vs 37.5%. In 2000, Bush Jr. won 47.9% compared to Al Gore with 48.4%. But of course no Republican would complain in 2000 even though they howled at the horror of such a thing in 1992.
1992 Presidential General Election Results
2000 Presidential General Election Results
Now in 2008, since Obama won with a landslide, the only way they can undermine the legitimacy of his Presidency was to question his citizenship. It was an easy target since his father was not born in America. However, naturally, Republicans didn't care that McCain was not born in the U.S, but rather a U.S territory, Panama specifically. As such, the question with McCain was whether he qualifies as a "natural born" citizen, which the Constitution does not clearly define. But Republicans were "OK" with McCain being born in a U.S territory so they did not care.
With regards to Obama, he produced a Certificate of Live Birth showing he was born in Hawaii. Usually this means he is a "natural born" citizen considering he was born in the U.S. But people are still not satisfied because they want an actual Birth Certificate. Others claim that on his document, his "race" was listed as "African" and their argument is that term was not used in the '60s. African Americans were called "Negro" and that was usually written as such on official document. Using that as "evidence" some claim the Certificate to be a forgery.
Anyways, once calling into question the legitimacy of Obama's Presidency they took steps to once again slow down the machinery of government. Republicans filibustered a very high number of times.
108th Congress (Republican Majority): 62
109th Congress (Republican Majority): 68
110th Congress (Democrat Majority): 139
111th Congress (Democrat Majority & Current Congress): 98 and counting.
U.S. Senate: Reference Home > 108th
U.S. Senate: Reference Home > 109th
U.S. Senate: Reference Home > 110th
U.S. Senate: Reference Home > 111th
The big difference between this time and in 1994 is Democrats control a HUUUGGE majority in both chambers of Congress. So with the Democrats being incredibly gutless the people blame the Democrats for the failing of the government. And deservedly so. It is simply ridiculous for a party to have that big of a majority and spend all of 2009 and early 2010 sucking their thumbs.
I personally feel that Republicans care more about their own power than a strong nation. If they are not in charge, they would rather the nation tank down the toilet than see Democrats actually lead the nation to greater strength. On flip side, I don't think Democrats know how to govern and lead. They are too busy trying to make everyone happy and be all "touchy-feely".
Thoughts on my theory? Play nice and lets discuss the points and not how dumb you may think I am and such. Cheers!
hakr100
Android Expert
None of the so-called "birther" claims have any basis in reality. They emanate mostly from over-the-top loons who so hate Obama, the idea of Obama, the idea of a black POTUS, the idea of a Democrat in their White House, that they will latch onto anything they see, even if they have to make it up, as a way to try to discredit him. Look up Orly Taitz, the most persistent of the birthers. She is five cans short of a six pack in terms of sanity.
Vihzel
Destroying Balls Everyday
Cheers!
That was too long! Nice post though. Republicans knew that they were losing the election due to the polls before the election greatly favoring Obama and they had to pull out the scare tactics to at least try to strike fear into some people... which actually backfired and made Republicans look bad. I took a Political Science class with a focus on just the 2008 Elections and we talked a lot about different tactics that both sides have used to try to garner more votes and in this 2008 election... Republicans used a lot of scare tactics and also one of the worst moves made by the McCain campaign... Joe the Plumber. Another really bad move was Sarah Palin, which basically drove away independents because of her extreme views. They just made WAY too many mistakes, while Obama had essentially the perfect campaign. That's why he, a huge underdog, when the race first started, took the Clinton family by surprise because they expected that they were going to win from the start.
Keep in mind... my political science professor was a very strong conservative who voted for McCain in the 2008 elections. Even he is able to easily admit that Obama had a near perfect campaign. He definitely didn't agree with a lot of Obama's views, but he was so objective and taught with an unbiased view. One of the best professors that I've ever had. He definitely knew his material.
I'm sure that the GOP has learned from their mistakes from this past election and will strive to do better in the 2012 Presidential Election. I hope that there is a true independent that runs for office. I am so sick of the whole Democrat vs. Republican that I want both out of office. I want a true Independent in office that hates both the Democrats and Republicans so that he doesn't have to pander to ANY side.
I know that many of you think I am a Democrat, but my views actually split both ways... socially liberal and politically leaning-conservative. I am not satisfied with what Obama has done so far in this term and if he doesn't continue to do well, then I will NOT be voting for him again in 2012 and if there is no other viable candidate, then I will just abstain from voting.
hakr100
Android Expert
Vihzel...
I suppose I am more cynical than you are, but all I see coming from the GOP are more efforts to divide and conquer via attacks and fear. As for Ms. Palin, i suspect that she hurt the McCain ticket not only because of her far out views, but because of her obvious lack of knowledge of even the simplest issues, her unwillingness to educate herself, her superficiality, and her lack of common decency.
The biggest mistake the Obama Admin has made to date was in offering any accommodations to the congressional Republicans, once it became apparent the latter were going to be the party of NO!
I suppose I am more cynical than you are, but all I see coming from the GOP are more efforts to divide and conquer via attacks and fear. As for Ms. Palin, i suspect that she hurt the McCain ticket not only because of her far out views, but because of her obvious lack of knowledge of even the simplest issues, her unwillingness to educate herself, her superficiality, and her lack of common decency.
The biggest mistake the Obama Admin has made to date was in offering any accommodations to the congressional Republicans, once it became apparent the latter were going to be the party of NO!
CRPercodani
OFWGKTA
I honestly didn't even read through this thread but it's been reported more then once. Good heated debates are always welcome but please try not to cross the line between it and personal attacks, they will not be tolerated from any member.
Way to take back an apology! Classy.
It was in reference to you claiming that you didn't say what you said, and your long posts to explain that, even though your post of the offending comment reads as I took it and said it did. I didn't buy what you were selling in your long explanations. My comments about selling you a bridge (Brooklyn) or water front property were in direct reference to the possibility that if you were believing what you were selling then I had a bridge, etc. I'd be willing to sell you. For cheap.
Perhaps "gullible" wasn't the best word for that particular instance. Other than my take on you believing what you were trying to sell me with your long explanations, how would I know if you are gullible? My experience with you is very limited. In real life you might be able to sell someone the sole to their own shoe.
It's because I am the conservative here.
I personally won't be satisfied until I see Obama with some flippers and a snorkel dive down with a giant cork and mallet to plug up the hole.
In all seriousness, BP does need to be held responsible more than they are. August is not good enough for this to be fixed. By that time, the entire Gulf Coast will be ****ed.
Also, hypocritical politicians are hypocritical. Repeat that tautology to yourself every time a politician on either side starts contradicting their views.
In all seriousness, BP does need to be held responsible more than they are. August is not good enough for this to be fixed. By that time, the entire Gulf Coast will be ****ed.
Also, hypocritical politicians are hypocritical. Repeat that tautology to yourself every time a politician on either side starts contradicting their views.
Zenze
Well-Known Member
Yea I would love for it to be fixed before then, the only problem is nobody knows how to do it. The exact same thing happened in the 70s and they were not able to stop it, they tried all the same things in the same order. It didn't work then and it didn't work now, the only way they were able to stop it then was a relief well and that looks to be the case this time around. It seems that it wasn't important enough to the oil industry to come up with a better solution to this problem should it ever arise again.
YouTube - Rachel Maddow- The more spills change_ the more they stay the same
Here's a solution. The U.S. government says "yo BP we gonna fine you one million dollars a day for every day oil still flows freely into the gulf. Have fun."
You'd be amazed at how fast a company can do something like that when the stakes are high. Even if it isn't a perfect solution, it's still a temporary solution until something more permanent can be done.
You'd be amazed at how fast a company can do something like that when the stakes are high. Even if it isn't a perfect solution, it's still a temporary solution until something more permanent can be done.
Another reminder.... keep discussions on-topic, civil and adult or the thread will be closed.
hakr100
Android Expert
I was wrong...there is something funny about the Gulf disaster - there's this Texas congressman...
June 17, 2010
Texas Lawmaker Apologizes to BP CEO for '$20 Billion Shakedown'
By JOSH VOORHEES of Greenwire
In an unexpected move, a top House Republican today offered an apology to BP PLC for what he called a White House "shakedown" of the British oil giant.
Texas Rep. Joe Barton, the top Republican on the Energy and Commerce Committee, said that President Obama went too far in pressuring BP to fund a $20 billion escrow account to pay for environmental and economic damages resulting from the ongoing Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
"I am ashamed of what happened at the White House yesterday," Barton said. "I think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would consider a shakedown, in this case a $20 billion shakedown."
That Barton later sort of withdrew his remarks doesn't mitigate his earlier outrageous statement. Barton, of course, is in bed with Big Oil.
June 17, 2010
Texas Lawmaker Apologizes to BP CEO for '$20 Billion Shakedown'
By JOSH VOORHEES of Greenwire
In an unexpected move, a top House Republican today offered an apology to BP PLC for what he called a White House "shakedown" of the British oil giant.
Texas Rep. Joe Barton, the top Republican on the Energy and Commerce Committee, said that President Obama went too far in pressuring BP to fund a $20 billion escrow account to pay for environmental and economic damages resulting from the ongoing Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
"I am ashamed of what happened at the White House yesterday," Barton said. "I think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would consider a shakedown, in this case a $20 billion shakedown."
That Barton later sort of withdrew his remarks doesn't mitigate his earlier outrageous statement. Barton, of course, is in bed with Big Oil.
These images should haunt all voters, even Oilbama fanbois (but they won't), so they can remember the mismanagement and uncaring attitude of Oilbama for the gulf and the wildlife.
Zenze
Well-Known Member
They mostly make me angry at those responsible.
hakr100
Android Expert
Oilbama is right in the thick of it with those responsible. He passed off the inspections for BP, including their ridiculous environmental disaster plan to save marine species not even present in the gulf (like sea otters and walruses). Oilbama even gave BP a safety award for the Deepwater Horizon rig. Then he refused help that was offered by the Dutch, Brazil, and other countries while doing nothing else after the rig blew up.
Ann Coulter said it very well about the dems yelling about BP and the oil spill: If the dems would have been yelling about the safety concerns 6 months ago, they would have some credibility. Instead they are just grandstanding and Oilbama is using this whole disaster - because he never wants to waste a crisis - to push his Cap & Trade so he and AlGore can make billions in carbon trading and offsets.
ballisticn8
Android Expert
this... i have heard this several times and please understand that i am not questioning you but generally curious to see references backing these statements up to satisfy my own curiousity.
more specifically about the safety award, inspections, and what happened as far as what changes were made to allow the rig to be built...
i have already seen and read the reports that says BP's submitted environmental plans were pretty much copied and pasted from the pacific plans to the gulf plans to the extent that the animals listed in the report werent even animals that lived in the gulf but did live in pacific regions.
hakr100
Android Expert
Halliburton actually strongly suggested that BP go with industry recommended standards.
wiretap
Android Enthusiast
this... i have heard this several times and please understand that i am not questioning you but generally curious to see references backing these statements up to satisfy my own curiousity.
more specifically about the safety award, inspections, and what happened as far as what changes were made to allow the rig to be built...
i have already seen and read the reports that says BP's submitted environmental plans were pretty much copied and pasted from the pacific plans to the gulf plans to the extent that the animals listed in the report werent even animals that lived in the gulf but did live in pacific regions.
I haven't said anything about the time or circumstances of the rig being built.
As far as the safety award, here:
hakr100
Android Expert
"Could it get worse? Of course, this is Oilbama we're talking about! Kevin McCoullough of Townhall..."
Well, of course...what would you expect on the Townhall site?
"Get back to me when you have a coherent thought"
About Ann Coulter? I'm sorry, but I don't consider Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh, et al, as anything more than sources of bile, hatred, outright lies and rabble-rousing of the lowest common denominator. You, of course, are entitled to your own opinion of them.
Well, of course...what would you expect on the Townhall site?
"Get back to me when you have a coherent thought"
About Ann Coulter? I'm sorry, but I don't consider Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh, et al, as anything more than sources of bile, hatred, outright lies and rabble-rousing of the lowest common denominator. You, of course, are entitled to your own opinion of them.