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Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman official discussion thread

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jury done for the day.... will reconvene tomorrow...... they asked for a cataloged evidence list so they can see specific items of evidence earlier

IMO.... this tells me they are at the very least thinking manslaughter and determining whether or not it was actually murder 2

not that theres much difference........ since both carry life in prison sentences
 
So, they charge him with murder 2,the defendant presents a reasonable and legitimate defense against murder 2, then the jury is instructed that they may find him guilty for a different crime against which the defendant was never given an opportunity to present a defense. Yep... Setup.
 
PrinceCorwin said:
So, they charge him with murder 2,the defendant presents a reasonable and legitimate defense against murder 2, then the jury is instructed that they may find him guilty for a different crime against which the defendant was never given an opportunity to present a defense. Yep... Setup.
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That's common practice. According to the commentators it's pretty much mandatory under Florida law. Not saying it's right, it just gives prosecutors incentive to overcharge, but it's not anything unusual.

Why does it seem like the people who are always going on about how incompetent the government is are usually the same ones who think the government is capable of pulling off these huge conspiracies?
 
JohnLaird said:
No matter how this turns out it will serve as an excellent cautionary tale to CHL holders. Even if he does not go to prison Zimmerman's life will be a wreck.
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Probably The Most IMPORTANT point anyone has made about all this so far.

For me the jury leaving at 6 is interesting. They so far have been a hard working jury, working late and without breaks. For me, that means one of two things. One, they've already voted, it's unanimous but they want to pull a Casey Anthony and sleep on it, come back in the AM, and take another vote to be sure. If not that then I bet hung jury. I think if they NEEDED to deliberate to settle it and they Could settle it tonight (if not already settled) they would have Stayed later tonight.

So, they've either already decided or it's going to take some deliberating IF they Can decide.

I strongly fear a hung jury. In my mind the acquittal is an easy quick answer. If there's no acquittal, you aren't going to easily Change any of the minds in that jury room now...

My view anyway. :rolleyes:

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
 
Gmash said:
That's common practice. According to the commentators it's pretty much mandatory under Florida law. Not saying it's right, it just gives prosecutors incentive to overcharge, but it's not anything unusual.

Why does it seem like the people who are always going on about how incompetent the government is are usually the same ones who think the government is capable of pulling off these huge conspiracies?
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I'm curious... To whom are you referring? U posted this after quoting me. Have I been going on about governmental incompetence and huge conspiracies? I do, however believe that incompetence and ill intent often go hand in hand.
 
PrinceCorwin said:
I do, however believe that incompetence and ill intent often go hand in hand.
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Yep.

I am not one to normally be concerned about the black helichopters. :rolleyes:

I do firmly believe the decision to appoint the special prosecutor and 2nd degree was a knee jerk reaction to Sharpton, Jackson, et al down here stirring the pot. They certainly helped get the Black Panthers to put out a death warrant for Zimmy. The Black City Manager clearly fired the Po Po Chief for wanting to follow the law as he saw it (not immediately arresting Zimmy).

The man with all the canary feathers flying out of his mouf is Jeff Ashton. He must be laughing his ass off that he and his people got this briar patch taken away from them.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
 
I'm really starting to believe that this whole case is a setup so that when he is
acquitted, there will be a riot and more support for gun control.
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So the theory is that the government deliberately brought a weak case against Zimmerman, confident that he would be acquitted, therefore sparking violent riots which would then be used as impetus for gun control? Sure sounds like a conspiracy to me.

I'm curious... To whom are you referring? U posted this after quoting me. Have
I been going on about governmental incompetence and huge conspiracies? I do,
however believe that incompetence and ill intent often go hand in hand.
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Gmash said:
So the theory is that the government deliberately brought a weak case against Zimmerman, confident that he would be acquitted, therefore sparking violent riots which would then be used as impetus for gun control? Sure sounds like a conspiracy to me.
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So that's a HUGE conspiracy? That could have been perpetrated by one DA. Or it might have been one big bluff because he intended on having the jury consider manslaughter anyway. Either way..... Setup.... But hardly huge or incompetence.
 
Okay, maybe not HUGE lol, just farfetched.

The manslaughter lesser charge is standard operating procedure, that was always going to happen regardless.
 
I know there are some saying that the jury may vote for manslaughter not knowing that when you add in the adder for use of a gun it's almost life itself cause they Think it's a lessor charge.

I have also heard on numerous occasions that juries are not likely to vote for lessor charges. They do but not very often. The reason supposedly, is they usually feel the prosecution OWES them proof of the charge that was charged. IF the Don't get that proof they often feel the prosecution has not done their job and they punish them for that by NOT going for a lesser charge.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
 
Gmash said:
Okay, maybe not HUGE lol, just farfetched.

The manslaughter lesser charge is standard operating procedure, that was always going to happen regardless.
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Just want to say thank you for addressing the topic of this thread (the setup.. Or "conspiracy") even if you don't agree. Most people are simply commenting on his guilt or innocence or what the verdict might be. I personally think guilt/innocence is so clear-cut that its not even worth discussing. I'm more interested in anyone's thoughts on a deeper intent or agenda. So thank you again
 
Somebody please explain to me the term "reasonable doubt". I would like to know why it is not being used in our courtrooms today. Are juries just plain scared to let someone off? Is the fear of rioting, keeping the jury from doing their sworn duty?:roll eyes:

P.S. Fear of rioting, forced the jury to use reasonable doubt in the "O.J." case. Is this what our country has become?

I fought, and bled for this country, in Vietnam. Now, i'm ashamed of our legal system.:(
 
grunt0300 said:
Somebody please explain to me the term "reasonable doubt". I would like to know why it is not being used in our courtrooms today. Are juries just plain scared to let someone off? Is the fear of rioting, keeping the jury from doing their sworn duty?:roll eyes:

P.S. Fear of rioting, forced the jury to use reasonable doubt in the "O.J." case. Is this what our country has become?

I fought, and bled for this country, in Vietnam. Now, i'm ashamed of our legal system.:(
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Have you ever served on a jury?
I have and I was amazed how much ignorance I encountered.
I used to think bad jury verdicts resulted from bad facts or poor lawyering but ignorant jurors are a big factor.
 
There was an IT Manager for the State's Attorney office who testified that the defense wasn't given All the messages off of Martin's phone.

He is as of today, an EX-IT Manager for the State's Attorney office.

We'll have none of that telling the truth in court crap, we're the State's Attorney afterall.

OH!

LOOK!

A squadron of black helichopters!! :D

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
 
AndyfromVA said:
Have you ever served on a jury?
I have and I was amazed how much ignorance I encountered.
I used to think bad jury verdicts resulted from bad facts or poor lawyering but ignorant jurors are a big factor.
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I have served on juries. For some reason, lawyers like Postal workers to sit on their juries. Sometimes, the "jury foreman", is the dumbest one in the room, but we were always told to speak our minds(before the initial vote). I served on a jury that was hung up by one person who proclaimed "reasonable doubt", when she couldn't even explain what it meant. She was racially motivated, and wouldn't convict if there were pictures to prove the crime. The whole process disgusted me. This trial is NOT about race, but the media circus has made it so. How much coverage would this trial get, if George Zimmerman were black? Sad commentary on the state of this country.:(
 
I am beginning to think maybe Zimmy should make a quick run to the mall for a couple sets of fishnets and garter belts for his upcoming stay at the Graybar Resort.

Just in case ya know. ;)

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
 
OcalaFlGuy said:
I am beginning to think maybe Zimmy should make a quick run to the mall for a couple sets of fishnets and garter belts for his upcoming stay at the Graybar Resort.

Just in case ya know. ;)

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
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I hope that they don't send him to Starke. Then, it's over.:afraid:
 
OcalaFlGuy said:
I am beginning to think maybe Zimmy should make a quick run to the mall for a couple sets of fishnets and garter belts for his upcoming stay at the Graybar Resort.

Just in case ya know. ;)

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
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The longer the jury is out, the worse it looks for Zimmerman.
The jury might be considering manslaughter as a "compromise" verdict.

I still think Zimmerman should have testified. He had the opportunity to connect with the jury and didn't do so. If he's found guilty this may be the deciding factor.
 
The prosecution would have torn Zimmy to shreds on the stand.

ANY good having HIS guys question him would have been WAY erased when the prosecution left him there on the floor in the fetal position, gurgling and drooling on himself.

The general rule is to keep your guy OFF the stand if you're the defense unless you're given Absolutely no other choice. There's been way more defendants cook their goose on the stand than save it.

[EDIT] The deciding factor this time for the defense was probably that the prosecution Had Already introduced ALL of Zimmy's own words on the subject FOR the defense. It would be a CERTAINTY Zimmy would be destroyed on the stand while not really adding anything factual (just some emotion) to the argument. The defense would have been insane to put him on IMO.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
 
AndyfromVA said:
Have you ever served on a jury?
I have and I was amazed how much ignorance I encountered.
I used to think bad jury verdicts resulted from bad facts or poor lawyering but ignorant jurors are a big factor.
Click to expand...

Mind elaborating (seriously)? Via PM is fine sui we don't clutter the thread. I've never served on a jury (been called multiple times but it always settles before the jury is needed).
 
I've served on one. Many years ago though.

I found all the other jurors very responsible and not overly stupid.

Ours was a very easy, nearly predecided check forgery cashing/theft case. The defendant was a Marielito who they had footage of cashing the stolen forged checks.

I found it and I think the others there did to be a very sobering experience. (And I think he got 5 years or so in the end. No Zimmy World there.)

Bruce in Ocala, Fl
 
The fact that it has taken this long is really making me sick to my stomach. The fact that it ever got this far at all is a travesty of justice and law. God help us.
 
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