Verizon was evil before, but they have really done it this time.

[noah way]

Their job isn't to make money, it's to make as much money as they can in any way that they can. Customers be damned: give them as little as possible and charge as much as possible.

My business wouldn't survive like that, and even if it could I wouldn't do it. This kind of business practice is the reason this country is in the toilet. Take the money and run.

 

[Incredirebel]

I have been a Vz customer for many years. I am one year into my two year contract with them. I, too, am frustrated with Verizon and worried about future changes. I do plan to stay with Vz for the time being because they still offer the best combination of service and product. That doesn't mean, however, that what they offer is great - just that, for me, it is better than less desirable alternatives.

The recent litany of anti-consumer changes would be more palatable if Verizon wasn't greatly increasing their profits year after year. But that is not the case. They were making money hand over fist when they offered early upgrades, had one year contracts and a 30 day phone return policy. And they're making money hand over fist now. IMO, they changed their policies, not because their bottom line was at risk, but because they could make even more money, get some early downpayments on the new LTE network, and give lots more dividends to their shareholders - even if some of their customers, who want to stay customers, are also struggling to pay mortgages, college tuitions, and higher food and gas costs all while they would have to look up "pay raise" in a dictionary to remember what one was!

Of course Vz is going to keep two year contracts around. They are so immensely profitable. Sure, the customer gets the phone at a subsidized cost, but it doesn't take that many months into a two year contract to repay that subsidy. Maybe 6 to 8 months, at the most. That's not even counting the profit that Vz gets because it doesn't roll over minutes and people often opt to buy into a service plan with way more minutes than they need because the the next lower alternative is insufficient and the fees for going over the contract minutes are so draconian.

Being able to reach people by phone, regardless of their actual location, is much less of a luxury these days, and becoming much more of a necessity. It even affects the ability of people to get an education and to get and keep jobs, in a way that was never true 20 years ago. Access to the internet is even more crucial, imo, than access to a cellphone.

People are complaining about Vz's actions because access to a cell/smartphone and internet access while mobile, along with reliable service, have just become so important. Yes, Vz has every right to change their service contracts. Just because they can, though, doesn't mean they ought to, and that customers should just meekly accept their actions without protest.

And maybe it's time to stop viewing Vz, Sprint, and AT&T, etc., as oligopolies and, instead, treat and regulate them as utilities.

 

[Adamx]

lot of spoiled brats in this topic. NE2 is only slightly different from having a 2 year contract, then dropping and re-upping with a discounted/free phone. 1 year contracts have always been inefficient, and if you seriously want a new phone every single year, well you are odd. If you are going to be that eccentric, then shell out or shut up imo.

Tiered data, for most people will cost them less. Only people who are trying to abuse the service with tethering and torrenting and mp3 stealing are likely to use that much. Yes, there are some legitimate reasons for needing more than 1gb a month, but once again, it's just being spoiled to expect it.

 

[noah way]

Tiered data, for most people will cost them less.

Dream on.

 

[euph_22]

Dream on.

Have you seen the tiered data plan that Verizon's going to use?

There are certainly people that will save money with Tiered data. And there will also people who can save money by modifying their usage (by using wifi, not using as much data OTA).

On average, yes it will cost more. (otherwise what's the point?) But to dismiss that it could save people (maybe even most people) money, is ridiculous.

 

[zerocool79346]

Dream on.

Just because you use 66283949gb doesn't mean the rest of us do. Hell im a power user compared to most consumers and, if i would use my wifi more diligently, could just about squeak by with the 150mb plan. I can promise you that most people could easily get by with that plan and save themselves $15 per line.

 

[offanairplane]

So I agree partly with what noah way said: " It comes down to service more than price, becuase if you don't get service it doesn't matter what it costs.." ...but I don't agree with the price comparison.

But as a caveat, there are also areas where Sprint has good reception and Verizon doesn't, like at my job for example. So in that case, Sprint wins on the price and on the signal.

 

[offanairplane]

Their job isn't to make money, it's to make as much money as they can in any way that they can. Customers be damned: give them as little as possible and charge as much as possible.

My business wouldn't survive like that, and even if it could I wouldn't do it. This kind of business practice is the reason this country is in the toilet. Take the money and run.

Everybody charges "as much as possible."
Do you know why a soda is $1.50 at the convenience store? Because people won't pay $5 for a soda. If they thought people would pay it, then they would charge it. Supply and demand controls price. It's not about fairness.

Did you sleep through high school economics class?

 

[offanairplane]

And maybe it's time to stop viewing Vz, Sprint, and AT&T, etc., as oligopolies and, instead, treat and regulate them as utilities.

Yeah, because big brother is so much more ethical than big business.

 

[offanairplane]

Have you seen the tiered data plan that Verizon's going to use?

There are certainly people that will save money with Tiered data. And there will also people who can save money by modifying their usage (by using wifi, not using as much data OTA).

On average, yes it will cost more. (otherwise what's the point?) But to dismiss that it could save people (maybe even most people) money, is ridiculous.

I agree. Why make the people checking emails and updating facebook pay for the huge amount of data being used by people streaming movies and such?
If you use more, you pay more, if you use less you pay less. Sounds fair to me. It's the movie streamers who are whining about this, not the email checkers.

 

[noah way]

Have you seen the tiered data plan that Verizon's going to use?

There are certainly people that will save money with Tiered data. And there will also people who can save money by modifying their usage (by using wifi, not using as much data OTA).

On average, yes it will cost more. (otherwise what's the point?) But to dismiss that it could save people (maybe even most people) money, is ridiculous.

dailyfinance.com:

"Among Verizon Wireless customers, roughly two-thirds of its smartphone or stripped-down cell-phone users are either using the carrier's inexpensive data plan or have no data plan, the report noted. Verizon, however, is anticipating that a significant portion of its users will eventually move over to the iPhone. The thinking is its customers will be willing to fork over $30 to $50 a month for a data plan, though it's still wrestling with the exact price points.

See full article from DailyFinance: Verizon Delays Its Tiered Pricing Plan Until Apple Launches iPhone 5 - DailyFinance"

Engadget:

"Verizon's made no secret of the fact that $30 unlimited smartphone data wouldn't last forever, but CFO Fran Shammo just made things a little more interesting today at the same Morgan Stanley conference Sanjay Jha rocked yesterday: turns out they're targeting "mid-summer" to rearrange the carrier's data pricing. Interestingly, Shammo says they're still working through the details and that they don't yet know whether the tiers will be based on speed, bit buckets, or some combination of the two. Of course, Verizon's already dipped its toes in the tiered game with a $15 / 150MB option that evaporated around the time that the CDMA iPhone launched."

"I'm from Verizon and we're here to help you." ​

 

[Deleted User]

Yeah, because big brother is so much more ethical than big business.

I know we but with the way big companies are operating themselves with less regulation (oil, health, banking, telco), people are seemingly willing to take sides with just a little more government oversight.

Yeah, because big business is so much more ethical than big brother.

 

[vzwuser76]

OK, let's say it this way. What they are doing is not EVIL persay, but it's not really consumer friendly. After all of the changes they have institiuted since the first of the year, I decided to call in and try and get an idea as to where they are going.

Basically I was told that the main problem is the cost of the devices. They are taking a loss every time they subsidize a phone. I find that kind a laughable especially when the rep told me that they just break even when they sell them at full retail. Case in point, while waiting on the Tbolt release we saw a screenshot from a Best Buy inventory page. It showed the retail cost, employee cost, and their cost. Retail was $750, employee was $425, and their cost was $385. I explained this to the rep and she said well Best Buy must have negotiated a better price than they did because Verizon pays $600 for the Tbolt!

Basically any rep I have talked to has said that things are going to keep getting better for the customer. But all I have seen is costs increasing and perks/options decreasing. Some have mentioned that we didn't have LTE before. But with all of the things they are pushing with it (movie downloads, online gameplay, cloud services) it is going to use more data and at a faster rate. With tiered data coming into play you won't be able to enjoy most of that without going over your data allotment.

As far as the $50 prepaid unlimited plan they are offering now, take a look at Straight Talk from Walmart. It's basically the same thing (Straight Talk is $5 cheaper) and both run on Verizon's network. It's been stupid of them to have waited this long to offer this when they've let someone else use their network to make money off of it.

What I guess is really irks me is the state of Verizon today. For 4 years Verizon had to compete with not being able to offer the iphone. They held their own in the wireless market without having the #1 selling smartphone. They did so by exposing every shortcoming they could find on it & made a good case for us to get behind android. Fast forward to today. Now they have the iphone. Now it's magical. But now we have 2 options when upgrading vs 5 options pre-iphone. It's like they adopted apple's strategy. Giving people options will only confuse them. We know what's best for them. Just trust in that and everything will be fine.

I know some of you will say you have the option to go to a different provider, but when each of them follows the other, it's basically the same guy with a different shirt. So really there's not even a way to vote with your wallet unless you drop service altogether. In today's world it's almost strange if you don't have a cell phone. It sucks and I doubt we'll see it get any better.

 

[Ba'al]

What amazes me that people do all this bitching, moaning, and complaining about VZW and every other company that they don't like this they don't like that but they don't do anything about it by taking their business elsewhere. Nobody is forcing you to to business with VZW or anyone else. Oh, I know, they HAVE NO CHOICE. BS, you just don't have the cojones to stick to the courage of your commitments. If you don't like the way a company does business either do something about it or stop whining.

Apparently nobody who complains about "big business" has ever run a (successful) business of their own. Number one priority is making money -- as much as you possibly can. Many of my mutual funds include VZ in their holdings, and have performed better than many other tech or telecom stocks over the past 20 years, and compared to what I was paying for cell service 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 years ago I'm happy to pay what I pay now. Prices are substantially lower for thousands of more minutes, and data and other features have advanced by leaps and bounds and continue to every day.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[vzwuser76]

What amazes me that people do all this bitching, moaning, and complaining about VZW and every other company that they don't like this they don't like that but they don't do anything about it by taking their business elsewhere. Nobody is forcing you to to business with VZW or anyone else. Oh, I know, they HAVE NO CHOICE. BS, you just don't have the cojones to stick to the courage of your commitments. If you don't like the way a company does business either do something about it or stop whining.

Apparently nobody who complains about "big business" has ever run a (successful) business of their own. Number one priority is making money -- as much as you possibly can. Many of my mutual funds include VZ in their holdings, and have performed better than many other tech or telecom stocks over the past 20 years, and compared to what I was paying for cell service 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 years ago I'm happy to pay what I pay now. Prices are substantially lower for thousands of more minutes, and data and other features have advanced by leaps and bounds and continue to every day.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

That means a lot from someone who has a vested interest in Verizon making as absolutely as much money as they can.

You say we should have the cojones to take our business elsewhere. As I stated in my post, where exactly would that be? With each of the cell companies doing essentially the same thing, going to another company tells them I don't like what company A is doing, but I condone what company B is doing, when they are doing the same thing. How exactly does that solve the problem?

You say everone is bitching about the way they do business. Have you ever complained about the cost of gas? The oil companies are doing essentially the same thing. When Shell stations raise their price, you can bet that Citgo or Sinclair will also. It's a passive form of price fixing. So what are your options to speak with your wallet in that case? You have walking, biking, carpooling, use public transportation, or stay at home. Unless YOU have the cojones to take one of those routes, then using your logic YOU have no right to bitch about gas prices.

When the Tbolt came out I picked that up at retail so I could go to 1 year contracts from now on. That way I could upgrade every year since they dropped annual upgrades. Now they have taken that away. Until things change (and I don't see that happening) this will be my last smartphone with data service. Basically I'm going to revert back to a dumbphone (probably on a prepaid provider) and keep a smartphone to use wi-fi only like I'm currently doing with my Incredible (think of it as a mini wi-fi tablet).

Happy now? You've made me show my cojones to the forum. My apologies if anyone was scarred for life.

 

[noah way]

Apparently nobody who complains about "big business" has ever run a (successful) business of their own. Number one priority is making money -- as much as you possibly can.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Don't think about building customer loyalty, or a sustainable business model, concentrate on grabbing as much dough as you can as fast as you can. That's the American way.

Bankers, mortgage brokers, investment brokers, insurance execs, hedge fund managers, industrial and military corporatists etc., - those principally responsible for the sad economic state of affairs in the US - all agree with you.

 

[euph_22]

That means a lot from someone who has a vested interest in Verizon making as absolutely as much money as they can.

You say we should have the cojones to take our business elsewhere. As I stated in my post, where exactly would that be? With each of the cell companies doing essentially the same thing, going to another company tells them I don't like what company A is doing, but I condone what company B is doing, when they are doing the same thing. How exactly does that solve the problem?

Could it be that the companies have similar policies because they are necessary to make their business model profitable?

You say everone is bitching about the way they do business. Have you ever complained about the cost of gas? The oil companies are doing essentially the same thing. When Shell stations raise their price, you can bet that Citgo or Sinclair will also. It's a passive form of price fixing. So what are your options to speak with your wallet in that case? You have walking, biking, carpooling, use public transportation, or stay at home. Unless YOU have the cojones to take one of those routes, then using your logic YOU have no right to bitch about gas prices.

Gas is a commodity item. Gas stations raise the price of gas at the same time because the price of gas goes up. The real analogy here is that it's not necessarily the stations fault they're charging $3.85/gallon.

 

[noah way]

Could it be that the companies have similar policies because they are necessary to make their business model profitable?

Gas is a commodity item. Gas stations raise the price of gas at the same time because the price of gas goes up. The real analogy here is that it's not necessarily the stations fault they're charging $3.85/gallon.

Gas is a great example. Gas stations make about 2-3 cents per gallon before taxes. Profits are so low they open convenience stores in order to generate revenue. Meanwhile Exxon posted $11 billion in profit (not revenue - PROFIT) for the 1st quarter of 2011.

Exxon's business model is certainly working.

 

[Jman42028]

just throwing this out there to maybe help alleviate some of the tension with/against vzw....but they have the best nationwide coverage and the fastest 4g network for a reason. They also have the most reliable network for a reason. They put a lot of money into the network nationwide, and if you don't believe me, take a look at an AT&T 3g coverage map, its horrible. Not to mention, dropping calls, ect. Sprint, most of their "profit" goes to sponsoring events like NASCAR. Not hating on nascar by any means, but really, that money should be going into improving the coverage. Their coverage map basically follows all major hiways, and beyond that, its a crapshoot.

I'm not saying that vzw isn't making a profit, or trying to make one, because realistically that is the goal of every business, ever. Thats just how it is. But look at the coverage, and you will see that they have obviously put more money into the network than the other guys. I'll be honest, I don't know too many happy AT&T or Sprint customers really....do you?

 

[offanairplane]

Number one priority is making money -- as much as you possibly can.

Bingo!

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The more money is made, the more is spent, and thus the economy thrives. And that is where jobs come from.

Customers regulate businesses. If they truly are unsatisfied with a company's service they will take their business to a cometitor. That is what keeps companies in check, competition.

 

[offanairplane]

That means a lot from someone who has a vested interest in Verizon making as absolutely as much money as they can.

You say we should have the cojones to take our business elsewhere. As I stated in my post, where exactly would that be? With each of the cell companies doing essentially the same thing, going to another company tells them I don't like what company A is doing, but I condone what company B is doing, when they are doing the same thing. How exactly does that solve the problem?

You say everone is bitching about the way they do business. Have you ever complained about the cost of gas? The oil companies are doing essentially the same thing. When Shell stations raise their price, you can bet that Citgo or Sinclair will also. It's a passive form of price fixing. So what are your options to speak with your wallet in that case? You have walking, biking, carpooling, use public transportation, or stay at home. Unless YOU have the cojones to take one of those routes, then using your logic YOU have no right to bitch about gas prices.

When the Tbolt came out I picked that up at retail so I could go to 1 year contracts from now on. That way I could upgrade every year since they dropped annual upgrades. Now they have taken that away. Until things change (and I don't see that happening) this will be my last smartphone with data service. Basically I'm going to revert back to a dumbphone (probably on a prepaid provider) and keep a smartphone to use wi-fi only like I'm currently doing with my Incredible (think of it as a mini wi-fi tablet).

Happy now? You've made me show my cojones to the forum. My apologies if anyone was scarred for life.

You would do the same for phones as you do for gasoline.

You're right, in that most people can't practically just stop using gasoline. They have to get to work and back, and in many cases (mine included) there are no busses that come by my house, or anywhere near it. And there are no busses that go to my place of work either. And none of my co-workers live where I do, so I can't carpool. But I do what I can. I drive a fairly fuel-effecient car, and I look for the cheaper gas stations when I have to fill up. So basically I buy as little gas as I can get away with, and only from the cheapest sellers.

Same goes for phones.
Do you have to have a data package? If not, drop it.
Do you have to have other paid features? If not, drop them.
Get a dumbphone, if you must. One person doing this won't make a difference, but like everything else if enough people do it, it will hurt them in the pocket-book. They will get the message. If no one is buying smartphones and unlimited data packages, guess what? Prices for smartphones and unlimited data packages will come down.

 

[offanairplane]

Don't think about building customer loyalty, or a sustainable business model, concentrate on grabbing as much dough as you can as fast as you can. That's the American way.

And why do you want customer loyalty? So those customers will continue to pay you money for a long time.
And why do you want a sustainable business model? So you can make money for a long time.

You know what, people want to paint this ugly greedy looking picture of a business out to make money. But it's not wrong to do that. It's normal. If companies aren't out to make money, then what are they out to do? What else would be the motivation? Verizon just really wants everyone to have a cellphone, that is their dream, and they will see it fulfilled even if they have to go bankrupt to do it? That's silly.


Does Verizon have customer loyalty? I've been with them about 10 years. How about you?
Do they have a sustainable business model? It's been sustained for quite a while now.

 

[jamor]

If you were gonna do that, you wouldn't be a monthly customer. You would've already switched. And which one of us out there just switches between carriers everytime we find a cheaper one?

Huh? This makes no sense at all. Do you know what an ETF means?

Its an Early Termination Fee and it is very expensive. So no I wouldn't have just already switched.

I'm sick of teaching all of these kids everything! If only they paid their own bills =/

 

[jamor]

Apparently nobody who complains about "big business" has ever run a (successful) business of their own. Number one priority is making money -- as much as you possibly can.

Actually we do own a successful business and this isn't what it's all about. Sorry kiddo.

 

[offanairplane]

Huh? This makes no sense at all. Do you know what an ETF means?

Its an Early Termination Fee and it is very expensive. So no I wouldn't have just already switched.

I'm sick of teaching all of these kids everything! If only they paid their own bills =/

Kids? I'll be 33 next Wednesday. I have two kids of my own. I've been paying my own cellphone bill now for let's see, 17 years.


Maybe if you had paid more attention to what I said, it would've been clear I was talking about month-to-month subscribers, which to my knowledge are not subject to early termination fees.

The point being this. Month to month subscribers are even more loyal to Verizon than those with contracts, why? Because they don't have to stick with Verizon, but they do anyway. What does that tell you? They like Verizon. And while they may like to keep their options open, they aren't really planning on leaving the big V.