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Verizon was evil before, but they have really done it this time.

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Well whatever the case it sucks when coupled with the drawdown in early upgrades. Used to be able to break a phone inside the 2 yrs and get away with it so long as you stuck with the company which I always have. 1 yr contract was going to be my new plan moving forward. Pay a little more up front for hardware but have a bailout option to stay up with newer technology.

I'll be taking the advice of some of the above posters and exploring my options in the market.
 
cipher, you also forgot to mention that just about EVERY market is an oligopoly. Retailers, cars, beer, tv, computers, stereos, airplanes, airlines, utilities, etc. It's basically any market where the players have large enough market shares to be modeled individually.

cipher6 said:
Also,
If, the members of an oligopoly get together and work in collusion to set prices at a certain level, effectively creating a cartel... thats called "price fixing" and its illegal. A few years back LG and sharp got nailed for price fixing their LCD screens, and had to pay millions in dollars.
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And almost definitionaly, one competitor adopting the policies of another is not collusion. For it to be collusion they would BOTH need to act.

If you don't like the policy, fine. You have every right. If you were taking advantage of the 1 year upgrades, you were kind of screwed over a bit. But it's not Verizon that's really screwing you over, it's the fundamental economics of the Wireless industry.
 
Please- using the term evil in this post shouldn't be exasperated by your definitions of true pure evil that we endure on a completely different level.

The OP gives my definition of why I believe Verizon is evil from my own perspective, and the way they treat their customers continues to remove choice flexibility in their contracts to enhance their bottom line.

Oligopolies do not need to practice actual price fixing in order to fix prices based on their competitors. They can do it by simply reviewing the marketing materials of their competitors which is completely legal. None the less, the landscape has changed and you are unwilling to admit this, and I the consumer am unhappy and believe this is a step in the wrong direction.

Congtrats- you can argue a point that they are not truly evil by your definition, however you can not argue that the flexibility of Verizon has turned quite rigid, and they have raised prices on their products unless you lock in the 2 year deal.

From my perspective what I see is, I either pay full price for a phone or get stuck with a 2 year contract with no options. Where before I was able to extend my contract and pay an early upgrade fee.

People with 1 year contracts now have to switch to 2 year contracts or pay full retail price on their next phone.

Now if I want to switch my service I can certainly do so when my contract is up, and if I want comparable service I have to go with ATT or Sprint. ATT has pretty much the same type of pricing and contracts as Verizon, and Sprint which is my first choice to switch is getting smaller and smaller by the moment since it is nearly impossible to compete with the bigger providers.

The T-Mobile deal with AT&T is being scrutinized due to the affects it will have on competition. Sprint- objects as they know that the deal pretty much seals their coffin.

My perspective is clear- we are moving towards higher priced plans, with longer time frames, with very little competition.

This happened once before AT&T and their land lines. They were forced to break up their monopoly (and were considered evil by many). The price we are paying for service is going up, while demand is also going up. The economics are not coinciding with the natural competition. There is apparent market power held by few firms. I'm not the only that is seeing this.

And euph- not all products are oligopolies. The products you mentioned specifically Retailers, cars, beer, tv, computers, stereos do not classify as oligopoly. The only one's you had correct are airlines.

Utilities tend to be monopolies- and are heavily regulated by the government. (Why they are regulated?, well due to the fact monopolistic companies without regulation will always seek to increase profit)


Cipher I respect your opinions and your support for free markets. My opinions are not far off in most markets, however your perspective of Verizon being a fair honest company is way farther off than my observations.

And I believe we can agree on one thing at least.... Two and Half men- was by far one of the worst TV shows on cable and the network was indeed evil for airing it.
 
jbuck1984 said:
And euph- not all products are oligopolies. The products you mentioned specifically Retailers, cars, beer, tv, computers, stereos do not classify as oligopoly. The only one's you had correct are airlines.

Utilities tend to be monopolies- and are heavily regulated by the government. (Why they are regulated?, well due to the fact monopolistic companies without regulation will always seek to increase profit)
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Ok, I'm really done arguing this. However, I just want to correct your correction. They are oligopolies (ok, I should have been a little more specific about the utilities. Some utilities are monopolies, some are oligopolies/cartels). In fact SEVERAL of the examples I listed were mentioned specifically in the wiki page you quoted.

EDIT: oh, and for anybody considering leaving over this, you can sometimes talk Sprint/ATT/ETc into crediting you for the Verizon ETF. It never hurts to try and talk them into it.
 
jbuck1984 said:
And euph- not all products are oligopolies. The products you mentioned specifically Retailers, cars, beer....
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Anheuser-Busch and MillerCoors control about 80% of the beer industry


jbuck1984 said:
My perspective is clear- we are moving towards higher priced plans, with longer time frames, with very little competition.
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I agree... and I don't like it, but its far from "evil." Not everything you don't agree with or don't like is "evil."


jbuck1984 said:
Congtrats- you can argue a point that they are not truly evil by your definition, however you can not argue that the flexibility of Verizon has turned quite rigid, and they have raised prices on their products unless you lock in the 2 year deal.
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I agree... but I don't see it as "evil," just like not being able to buy tequilza anymore isn't "evil."



jbuck1984 said:
My opinions are not far off in most markets, however your perspective of Verizon being a fair honest company is way farther off than my observations.
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But how is anything they've done "dishonest?" They are honoring your current contract and Ne2 upgrades, right? You might not agree with their business strategy, it might take away an option you previously enjoyed, but that is not dishonest or unfair.

Like I said, the fact you previously had the option of 1 year contract, when most other carriers don't offer it, and were able to get handsets at below cost is a result of the oligopoly. It was a benefit they employed to gain market share, now their well established, and can bring their handset and contract prices more in line with what others are doing and spend that money on things like improved networks... LTE was an option you previously didn't have, but I don't see you crying that you now have it offered.

jbuck1984 said:
And I believe we can agree on one thing at least.... Two and Half men- was by far one of the worst TV shows on cable and the network was indeed evil for airing it.
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Haha... I agree... It still boggles my mind how that was the number one rated network show in primetime... who are these people that watch that stuff?

Well whatever the case it sucks when coupled with the drawdown in early upgrades. Used to be able to break a phone inside the 2 yrs and get away with it so long as you stuck with the company which I always have. 1 yr contract was going to be my new plan moving forward. Pay a little more up front for hardware but have a bailout option to stay up with newer technology.

I'll be taking the advice of some of the above posters and exploring my options in the market.
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I totally agree it sucks from a consumer standpoint... but loosing an option you like is far from evil or even dishonest... and if it causes enough uproar, and enough people start jumping ship, it will be reversed... or some of the smaller carriers might start offering something similar to suck up all the people who don't like the change.



What gets me is referring to anything you don't like, or that might be a bit uncomfortable as "evil."
 
Ahh you guys are confusing me lol.

I'm pretty sure NE2 just gives you a $30 discount when you want to renew after 2 years.

You can still upgrade your phone at contract pricing after only 1 year of service. At least I can. Obviously it extends your contract though.
 
jamor said:
Ahh you guys are confusing me lol.

I'm pretty sure NE2 just gives you a $30 discount when you want to renew after 2 years.

You can still upgrade your phone at contract pricing after only 1 year of service. At least I can. Obviously it extends your contract though.
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I think they got rid of that as well. I don't feel like looking it up, but IIRC anybody on contract eligible for the early upgrade in the near future gets one more, but that's it.

EDIT: yup
 
Verizon is just another corporate profit center. They could give a rat's ass about anything other than tying you up for years with huge penalties for leaving (now $350 for smart phone cancellation, regardless of whether you get any service or not), hardware restrictions requiring data plans, limited calling plans, etc., etc.

Forget renewing the plan and buy aftermarket phones on ebay or elsewhere. Break it or lose it, buy another one. Cheaper in the long run than insurance and buying through VZ. And don't be a paying lab rat for the latest hardware.

I didn't feel like this before they closed all the VZ stores (great, helpful places staffed by knowledgeable people) and franchised the locations to Go Wireless and other crappy outfits.
 
noah way said:
Forget renewing the plan and buy aftermarket phones on ebay or elsewhere. Break it or lose it, buy another one. Cheaper in the long run than insurance and buying through VZ. And don't be a paying lab rat for the latest hardware.
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I have been thinking of going this route also. How does it work then when your contract expires? Do you just keep service day by day until you decide to quit or are you forced to renew in order to maintain service? I don't believe I've ever made it through 2 years without upgrading through Verizon so I honestly don't know.
 
I'm seriously considering letting my contract run up too and buying phones on ebay/amazon..

I believe once it is up, you go Month-to-Month.. but that also means that we would be susceptible to rate changes etc.. if anything were to change we wouldn't be grandfathered into anything. Then again, they aren't grandfathering us and we are under contract. they are just giving us 1 more time.

Man Verizon is a bully. They know they have the best service so they are saying, screw it, we don't give a shit about our customers. Time to make more loot. On TOP of the expensive 4g tiered plans that are coming.
 
So if we go month to month after the contract expiration, what happens if I get a phone that uses 4G instead of the current 3G plan I'm on? Have to renew/change contract in order to get service in that event?
 
Once your 2 years are up you go month to month retaining all pricing on your original contract. So if you have unlimited data and cheap month to month your fine. Once you want to upgrade any service 3g to 4g for instance they have the right to implement whatever pricing plan is out there... such as tiered data..... so if you want to stay with verizon get a 4g phone before tiered data goes into play and then pay retail or get your phones off ebay going forward and you should be fixed at your old pricing.... i played that game back in the day with feature phones and unlimited texts for like 1.99 a month.... as soon as I got a new phone with them they upgaded me to their new contracts..... the moral of the story.... don't wait for them to implement tiered data on the 4g network.... this is a gamble cause no one knows when and if it is truly happening but when it does you will have very little time to lock in the old unlimited plans, and who knows what language they have in their new contracts with regards to automatically changing unlimited to tiered..... i haven't done the research yet myself....
 
cipher6 said:
But they haven't changed your contract, so why is riding out the till the end of it such a big deal?

If you don't like VZW, jump carriers, thats why we have a free market.

Honestly, this is a pet peeve of mine, a company does something YOU don't agree with, so they are automatically "evil." Really, WTF? Get some perspective.


Have they killed anybody? Failed to honer the contract you signed?

Their "evil" for not offering a product you like? Really?
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It's funny how all these people who bellyache about how Verizon sucks and Verizon is evil and all the other BS whining complaints are never willing to put their money where their mouth is and just pay their ETF and leave.

They should just start their own wireless company and see how long before they have to trim benefits to remain profitable. Oh, I know, VZW should be in the charity business and just give everything away and make a loss instead of a profit. Maybe the govt should just take over wireless and give everyone free cell phones and service for life. People would still complain.

When a phone comes out that I like, if I want it badly enough I just buy it regardless of whether I am eligible to upgrade or not. If your mommies won't up your allowance so you can afford to pay full price for a phone then blame yourself and not Verizon or anyone else.
 
Ed Zachary said:
Pretty much getting to be the American business model again:
Buy up the competition.
Do less.
Charge more.

The govt has gone on a couple trust-busting sprees, breaking up the monopolies, like ATT, and bringing competition back into the marketplace.

But these days the large companies, and the politicians, have gotten a lot smarter finding ways to keep the politicians in the companies' back pockets.
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What is wrong with monopolies? If they have the best product, they deserve all the business they can get. If they get power-drunk and start screwing their customers, their customers will leave, and they will lose their monopoly. The government needs to keep it's hand out of the private sector and let capitolism work like the well-oiled machine it is.

People want to complain about big companies like Verizon, but they don't want to put their money where their mouth is. If it sucks that bad, take your business elsewhere.

All of us are with Verizon for one reason. It's the best deal out there. Either because of the phones, or the network, or the customer service, or whatever you like about Verizon, it's a better deal than anyone else for you and me, or we would be Sprint customers instead, or ATT, or whatever.
 
jbuck1984 said:
They changed the entire landscape of my contract. 2 years now means 2 years no upgrades. Prior to this, I could early upgrade every year. However this program has gone away. So now, I no long can upgrade every year. Yes I would call this evil. I would call this monopolistic. I would call this just the beginning. Take a look at the Canadian cell phone contracts, they have even stricter rules and carry 3-4-5 year contracts.

Verizon knows they have the market share, and they know that the only other option is ATT or Sprint, and they have made it clear your choices are not much different so deal with it.

That is evil. Get real.
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The two years you are serving out right now is for your last upgrade, not your next one. Your next one was never promised to you.
 
jamor said:
I'm seriously considering letting my contract run up too and buying phones on ebay/amazon..

I believe once it is up, you go Month-to-Month.. but that also means that we would be susceptible to rate changes etc.. if anything were to change we wouldn't be grandfathered into anything. Then again, they aren't grandfathering us and we are under contract. they are just giving us 1 more time.

Man Verizon is a bully. They know they have the best service so they are saying, screw it, we don't give a shit about our customers. Time to make more loot. On TOP of the expensive 4g tiered plans that are coming.
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If a football player stays with a team until the end of his contract and then signs a new contract with the same team, should he expect the exact same pay, even if he sucked that year?

Are they not "grandfathering" him in if they cut his pay on the new contract?

The point is, "grandfathering" is about keeping the old rules for an existing contract even though the rules have officially changed for all new contracts. But when your contract is up, you adopt the new rules when you sign another contract. I have been with Verizon Wireless for about 12 or 14 years, but I have not had one continuous contract. I've had many new contracts, at many different rates, and many different options.
 
callmeox said:
A month to month subscriber is more profitable for VZW since there is no device to subsidize.
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I don't care which is more profitable. The point is being free from a contract.

Having the choice to switch carriers whenever you want without having to pay a fee is Verizons worst nightmare :)
 
jamor said:
I don't care which is more profitable. The point is being free from a contract.

Having the choice to switch carriers whenever you want without having to pay a fee is Verizons worst nightmare :)
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Not really. They know they are the best game in town. They aren't worried about you switching.
 
In general it is their nightmare for their users to switch to month to month. So you are dead wrong.

I just reduced my plan by $20 bucks and now will use Google Voice for free with the extra minutes. HAHAHA!

Suckers!!!
 
offanairplane said:
The point is, "grandfathering" is about keeping the old rules for an existing contract even though the rules have officially changed for all new contracts. But when your contract is up, you adopt the new rules when you sign another contract. I have been with Verizon Wireless for about 12 or 14 years, but I have not had one continuous contract. I've had many new contracts, at many different rates, and many different options.
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Yes that is obvious.
 
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