wifi-tether support closed?

[n4zty]

Im gonna say this cuz i dont understand why the wifi-tether sections are being closed if ya consider wifi-tethering discussing illegal and violation of terms and aggreements to this forum then ya might as well close the rooting section as well. i dont see how any of this stuff could make a hassle for this forum which i love beacause ive learned so much from. i dont mean to rant or get on any1's nerves but i believe aslong as there is no discussion about warez or how to change esn numbers it should be allowed. just my 2cents.

 

[tiede]

I feel the same way and was about to say the same argument about rooting.
I don't know how far up the line the issue about tethering is, and was going to see if it's happening over at the sub-forums for att, vzw et al as well, since they all basically have the same policy.
I still remember when they were trying to say rooting was illegal until the supreme court weighed in!

I understand the warranty voiding thing (even if I don't agree, I understand). But as far as tethering the phone through rooting being against their ToS (as it is for most, if not all, service providers), I fail to see how that makes it a topic we can no longer discuss here.
There's a lot of things the person you bought an item from would like to happen, but it's not a loan, it's an outright buy.
This example is a little stretched but if I buy a car, a company can't tell me not to install my own custom parts and take it off-roading because they don't want that kind of publicity. It's _my_ car and if I had to swap out the engine to make it do what I want it to do, they can say they won't fix it under warranty, but they can't tell me I can't try to make it more powerful so it can suit my uses. At least that's what I thought...

 

[TRS-80]

Amen!

 

[plasticarmyman]

I completely agree with both of you (trs sorry you don't count )
i actually got a warning for posting about a tethering app, I can see that if this particular site was directly affiliated with MetroPCS and blocking those conversations...but as far as i can tell it is not.
I know on the Sprint Forums they tell you that the TOS doesn't agree with tethering, and they don't allow it, but if you go over to SDX-Developers (THE main people for Sprint Android mods) they don't do crap about people posting about wifi tethering.

and i would also like to point out that the app i posted about is a USB tethering app...many of which are readily available on the market (PDAnet, EasyTether, etc.) so why was i warned and my threads deleted?

and oh crap... i mentioned some apps...does this mean another warning?

 

[plasticarmyman]

wow...so....if it's a thread about actual tethering they lock it/delete it in less than 6 hours....but if it's a thread asking a legitimate question about AF policy regarding such actions...they don't even reply?...i am confused...

 

[Kaiser17]

This is how this situation is to me:

Like a major drug lord telling his distributors to stop selling cocaine on the streets because its dangerous and against the law but yet they continue selling marijuana and other drugs.
It doesn't change the fact that they are still drug dealers who are still committing a crime.

So that's how I see AndroidForums in this situation.. it should be upto the members whether they want to seek tethering or not for their phones, not the staff because this is like the number one place to help Android users violate their carrier policies with Rooting, ROMs, Kernels, Mods, Tutorials and the list goes on and on.

Just my piece of my mind..

 

[El Presidente]

Im gonna say this cuz i dont understand why the wifi-tether sections are being closed if ya consider wifi-tethering discussing illegal and violation of terms and aggreements to this forum then ya might as well close the rooting section as well. i dont see how any of this stuff could make a hassle for this forum which i love beacause ive learned so much from. i dont mean to rant or get on any1's nerves but i believe aslong as there is no discussion about warez or how to change esn numbers it should be allowed. just my 2cents.

Thanks for your comments and apologies it's taken a while for someone to respond. Ultimately, WiFi Tether without a specific plan is theft as you're getting a paid service for free. Surely you can understand that's not something we can endorse or encourage? In regards to comparing it to root, our community manager mentions it in our Site Rules and Guidelines, the relevant excerpt is below (click show):

Spoiler

Tethering without a carrier required required plan is theft of services. You are stealing from the carrier. It goes beyond modifying your own personal device.

This is something we are not willing to help members do. Much like talk of how to work the system to return devices you've broke, etc. That too is theft.

Some say, "well, rooting is against the TOS, so....". Rooting, if against the TOS, could result in a suspended account. That is on you and your responsibility and we're willing to aide in letting you make that choice. It is your device, you should have that choice.

These issues aren't related to rooting in this sense and shouldn't be compared as such. This is a decision made by the owner of this privately run site, which we have the right to do and enforce.

Risking your device == ok.
Theft == not okay.

Hopefully that clears it up for you. I can however move this to the Feedback forum and it will allow Phases to respond if you like?

I completely agree with both of you (trs sorry you don't count )
i actually got a warning for posting about a tethering app, I can see that if this particular site was directly affiliated with MetroPCS and blocking those conversations...but as far as i can tell it is not.
I know on the Sprint Forums they tell you that the TOS doesn't agree with tethering, and they don't allow it, but if you go over to SDX-Developers (THE main people for Sprint Android mods) they don't do crap about people posting about wifi tethering.

and i would also like to point out that the app i posted about is a USB tethering app...many of which are readily available on the market (PDAnet, EasyTether, etc.) so why was i warned and my threads deleted?

and oh crap... i mentioned some apps...does this mean another warning?

In all fairness, we don't really care about the policies of other sites, the site owner has decreed it's not something we're allowed to discuss here and we have to respect his wishes.

Also, the app you posted a link to specifically states in the article that it's sole purpose is to fool carriers tether detection.

wow...so....if it's a thread about actual tethering they lock it/delete it in less than 6 hours....but if it's a thread asking a legitimate question about AF policy regarding such actions...they don't even reply?...i am confused...

We can't be everywhere unfortunately and a lot of the tethering posts we action are based on Guides and other members using the report button to bring stuff to our attention. Hence why it's taken a little longer than normal to get around to this. In future, if you want us to take a look at anything, hit the report button, I garauntee you'll get a pretty swift response that way. Alternatively, drop one of us a PM, there's a list of current mods here.

 

[Reaper man]

What if MetroPCS doesn't offer a tethering service?

...because as far as I know, MetroPCS doesn't.

 

[El Presidente]

Then you can't do it unfortunately. It doesn't look like they allow it at all.

 

[Kelmar]

To echo what El P. has said, ultimately this is a PRIVATELY owned site. The internet isn't "free." The site is free for us to use but the owner has to pay a hefty sum to keep it operating so that we can use it. From my conversations with him, the owner seems like a very honest and upfront guy and his motives seem pure.

Basically it boils down that... His site = his rules. He (and the staff that volunteers for the site) understands that this means people may leave the site or that they may use different "competing" forums. We'll be sad to see you go but understand that for the owner, this is an ethical decision and is no different than stealing apps, a car, a wallet or shoplifting.

 

[Reaper man]

Then you can't do it unfortunately. It doesn't look like they allow it at all.

Then how would we be stealing from a service that technically doesn't exist?

 

[Slug]

From the MetroPCS TOS:

MetroWEB Service is intended for use on your device and not on any other equipment.
MetroWEB Service cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH

 

[Reaper man]

The second paragraph is quite explicit. If users decide to ignore that then that's their business. However here on Android Forums members are expected to abide by the wishes of the guy who pays the bills and not discuss methods that bypass such TOS.

Okay, is there any mention of rooting or modifying the firmware on the phone in the ToS?

EDIT: I found it:

We may terminate or suspend your Service at any time and for any reason without liability. If you breach any portion of this Agreement (including failing to pay your bill in full on time), we may suspend, terminate or restrict your Service. We can, without notice, restrict, suspend or end your Service or any agreement with you at any time for any reason, including, but not limited to: (1) if you: ... (d) tampering with or modifying your wireless device; ... (l) modify a wireless device from its manufacturer specifications; ... or (2) if you, any user of your wireless device or any account manager on your account: ... (d) modify your wireless device from its manufacturer's specifications;...

So, from the ToS, Rooting/flashing is forbidden as well, so tell me, what exactly is the difference from a ToS standpoint between rooting/flashing (against the ToS but you feel is okay to have on the forums, which you know is a violation for a fact, as the Odin thread implies hiding the root from said company) and tethering (also a ToS violation, but against the rules to talk about?)

earlier, the site rules and guidelines were as follows:

Tethering without a carrier required required plan is theft of services. You are stealing from the carrier. It goes beyond modifying your own personal device.

This is something we are not willing to help members do. Much like talk of how to work the system to return devices you've broke, etc. That too is theft.

Some say, "well, rooting is against the TOS, so....". Rooting, if against the TOS, could result in a suspended account. That is on you and your responsibility and we're willing to aide in letting you make that choice. It is your device, you should have that choice.

These issues aren't related to rooting in this sense and shouldn't be compared as such. This is a decision made by the owner of this privately run site, which we have the right to do and enforce.

Risking your device == ok.
Theft == not okay.

This implied the only difference, really, was a theft issue. In MetroPCS' case, there is no such issue as THE SERVICE, IN ANY FORM, DOESN'T EXIST, so tethering in this case, IS NO MORE WRONG THAN ROOTING.

I think I've made my point clear.

 

[Slug]

so tell me, what exactly is the difference from a ToS standpoint between rooting/flashing (against the ToS but you feel is okay to have on the forums

What I (or any other mod) do or do not feel is immaterial. As explained several times, the site owner makes the rules. Until he says otherwise this policy is set in stone.

I think I've made my point clear.

You have indeed, but you'll have to wait to see if Rob (the site owner) agrees.

 

[Reaper man]

You have indeed, but you'll have to wait to see if Rob (the site owner) agrees.

I shall await the response from our overlords...

 

[Phases]

Please stop digging around for loopholes. We can't possibly put every "if ->" then possible in the rules. Regardless of the specifics, when you root your device you are risking your device. When you tether other devices onto your device and let them piggyback on the carriers network, you are then taking this issue off your device and onto the service provider. Most aren't providing data plans to you with the intention of letting you hook whatever devices up to the one device you are paying for.. to suck data.

This is where we draw the line.

Rob, the guy that owns the site, has decided what we are currently enforcing. It has been brought up time and time again, and to him time and time again. He has not budged.

I brought it up again last week and asked if we could just allow it and put the responsibility on the end user and be done with it because frankly I'm tired of having to ask the staff to enforce this rule. Nothing to do with how I personally feel about the issue or not. I didn't get a response.

I will try again.

There is nothing that can be done at this point. PM Rob if you would like to see this changed. Until that happens please respect the rule in place set by the person who made this site free for everyone here to use. For whatever reason he has chose to set this rule himself, and not budge on it. He's allowed to do that.

You tipped the post and he sees the emails those provide. Perhaps he will pop in.

I will try to talk to him again and see if we can re-evaluate our stance. And if we do change it, you can bet there will be people who aren't happy with that either, as many consider it stealing and don't want to see us turn a blind eye to that. We've lost staff over the idea of allowing it. There are more views to consider on this than just this one.

 

[tiede]

Thanks to all the moderators for their attention to this matter.

I may be flamed, roped and tied to a tree, covered with honey and be fed to an army of fire-ants for saying this, but I do understand where they're coming from, although I don't also share Rob's view...
You can't really get mad at law enforcement officers for enforcing laws you don't particularly agree with, now can you? Some officers themselves complain about it, but it is their duty, and they must enforce it. I feel the moderators pain.


To save my skin from community wrath, some food for thought about what I think of the whole issue:
Is Tethering Stealing Bandwidth? | Techdirt

 

[El Presidente]

Thanks to all the moderators for their attention to this matter.

I may be flamed, roped and tied to a tree, covered with honey and be fed to an army of fire-ants for saying this, but I do understand where they're coming from, although I don't also share Rob's view...
You can't really get mad at law enforcement officers for enforcing laws you don't particularly agree with, now can you? Some officers themselves complain about it, but it is their duty, and they must enforce it. I feel the moderators pain.


To save my skin from community wrath, some food for thought about what I think of the whole issue:
Is Tethering Stealing Bandwidth? | Techdirt

Thank you. There's a pretty hefty thread here with views from members across the entire site if you want to discuss it further.