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Would you ever own a mac?

oh, but an Android phone on the dash mount is far better than paper printouts or laptops/iPads. really helpful that you don't have to look at them while driving when the Android speaks the directions as they come up
 
I might see the relevance of printers when they get to the point they can make dinners (3-D printers are not too far from replicators). although i might get one just because they almost have that LCARS look on their display panels on the higher end models.
 
As with so many things, your mileage may vary.

We use our printer often. Scans nicely too.

As well as the Mac Address Book.

And I'd be lost without using my laptop to connect to corporate presentation systems, the second display feature is head and shoulders above anything on any Windows machine I've tried for that. PowerPoint is particularly effective, giving a presenter's view on the laptop while the auditorium sees just the slides. Tiny Bluetooth mouse, default actions are click forward and reverse on your slides and you're free of the podium.

Every place I've done it sets aside IT help and an hour. I carry the adapters I need and have never needed more than 5 minutes to set up with IT providing the power on of their system.

For many of us, second monitor support is neither passe nor something that can be relegated to an air cast.
 
To be honest, I didn't look at my disk space used before vs. after. I'm only using half my drive and I don't think there was significant impact.

What do you mean by "background wallpaper on launchpad" and "other textures are still there in the Launchpad"? I have a ML Mac (typing on it now) and a Mavericks one, both have the same behavior in Launchpad, that being a blurred background image.

If you still have the Linen background in Notification Center, you still have ML. What does your "About this Mac" say for your version? Mavericks eschews the linen background on NC and the login screen, giving you a plain grey background instead.

It almost sounds like your update didn't complete properly, and possibly didn't clean up after itself, which would explain the extra disk space used. I'm not sure how one would check that.
 
i have made it clear enough where i stand with macs, overlooking a cliff as i throw them off it

but ya kno what would be neat and nostalgic? a mac os9 boot animation with sound lol
 
The 'About this Mac' shows version 10.9 listed. i am assuming that's the version number for Mavericks as ML was 10.8

as i said, it looks so much like ML that other than the additional two apps, and slower bootup time, it looks and feels like ML to me. it's not worth eating up 20GB of my hard disk no matter how large it is. it brings absolutely *nothing* to the table. Quite honestly, not sure why Apple's promoting it as if it's something big, something so 'new' when in reality it's a big fat zero. a rebadged Mountain Lion.

The login screen has ditched fake linen and now shows a blurred or dimmed version of my desktop wallpaper. i'll upload a screencap this weekend. other than that, the only other change is the different texture in dashboard. that's pretty much it. now if they had given us Siri or something else, that justifies the extra disk space and slower boot, i'd feel a bit better. it's not that i wanted an entirely redesigned OS as i hate too much change myself, but if you're going to use up 20GB of my hard drive, give me *something* noticeable.

I'm glad it was a free update, because if i had paid for it, i'd be asking for a refund. it is promoted out the wazzoo online and of course, Apple's site like it were some huge, big event. it's not. it's Mountain Lion with a new name and two apps. that's it. all the features that were on Apple's page, most of them have been in OS X for a long time, with perhaps different names, but they're not exclusive to Mavericks as they claim. Automatic updates for example, it's been on my system enabled since i bought my Mac. it had ML on it then. downloading more than one update at a time was easily possible in ML. of course, now, it seems to only download one at a time while the others are showing 'waiting' like on an iPad.

When my iPad got iOS 6 it gave me some features i like. it gave my iPad Siri. it also offered other features and an improved notification center. it gave me Facebook integration. what does Mavericks give me? nothing.
 
junkie2100 said:
i have made it clear enough where i stand with macs, overlooking a cliff as i throw them off it

but ya kno what would be neat and nostalgic? a mac os9 boot animation with sound lol
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I have a Macbook that was given to me, which I do use. I'm using Snow Leopard, but I don't think there's much in the newer versions of OS X that I would use, like iBooks or iCloud. I wouldn't go out and buy a new Mac. Rather save some $$$ and buy a Lenovo instead and put Linux Mint it.
 
Isn't that the beauty though? the fact you don't have to buy a new machine every two years. if you add it all up, Windows' obsolescence cycles and lifecycles means you'd be buying a new computer every two OS versions. that is, given the price of a cheap Windows 8 machine @ $399, double that, now it's almost 700-800$ there. by the time you add up what you pay for one Mac, you've paid the same for multple PCs over time. a Mac can last a long time if well-cared for. you don't have to have the most current OS to use it either. Windows seems to cease being functional when it's at least one version behind (except for XP which has maintained support for quite possibly the longest time in history)

When i'm satisfied i hold onto things. when i bought the iPad, i never intended on buying another iPad to replace it. same goes for the Mac. Of course, the iPad stays shelved more now since iOS 7 has seriously slowed it down. the Nexus 10 has pretty much replaced it.
 
My "wake from sleep" login screen has always showed my background image, even changing once I wake the machine (I have a folder that cycles images). The only time I saw the "fake linen" on a login screen was on the login screen from a boot up. Not sure about a texture in Dashboard, that's just a dimmed background image like on ML.
 
nickdalzell said:
Isn't that the beauty though? the fact you don't have to buy a new machine every two years.
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You don't have to buy a new machine every two years if you buy a decently built PC in the first place. Sure it will be more comparable to the price of a Mac, but those low cost PC's make computer ownership available to a lot more people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford a Mac.

Speaking of affording, both the MacBook and the standard iMac start around $1300 U.S.

if you add it all up, Windows' obsolescence cycles and lifecycles means you'd be buying a new computer every two OS versions. that is, given the price of a cheap Windows 8 machine @ $399, double that, now it's almost 700-800$ there. by the time you add up what you pay for one Mac, you've paid the same for multple PCs over time.
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Let's look at some major release dates.

Windows 3.0 - 1990
Windows 3.1.1 - 1993
Windows 95 - 1995
Windows 98 - 1998
Windows ME - 2000
Windows XP - 2001
Windows Vista - 2006
Windows 7 - 2009
Windows 8 - 2012

These would have been the major consumer releases over the last 24 years making the average life cycle about 2.5 years. So, if we go by your proposition that PC's are replaced every other OS version that's a life of 5 years.

Now, given that we're looking at a $500 PC vs. a $1300 Mac, you'd have to hold on to that Mac for 13 years before you'd see parity. More to make it more economical.

I tend to replace machines more often than your average consumer, being in IT and a bit of a geek. I got my first laptop in 1994 and since them have had 7 making the replacement cycle for me a little under three years. That sounds about right even though I still have 3 of the older laptops and they still run perfectly fine (one runs Vista, on XP/Ubuntu and the oldest runs Mint.)

Like anything else, if you look at the numbers in the right way, you can make them back you up. Remember what Mark Twain said ... "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." ;)
 
Mountain Lion seemed reliable for the whole two weeks i used it before it upgraded, Mavericks is really nothing. it's Mountain Lion with a new name, slower boot time, and two additional apps. most overhyped overpromoted OS ever.

I am glad it didn't change the UI, personally, but i can't stand how it uses 20GB more space for no apparant reason.

Has anyone else 'upgraded' to Mavericks? if so, am i the only one who has noticed absolutely NOTHING? other than the wasted disk space that is...i mean i have Googled it to oblivion and all i see is it being proemoted so much, like it's the 'biggest change ever' and 'worth the upgrade' but i notice NOTHING. it's not an upgrade. more like a software update, maybe. so overhyped. if you're in Mountain Lion, STAY. because Mavericks is still ML

Dashboard had a background image that appeared to look like a rubber floor mat. they changed it so slightly that it might still look sorta like a rubber floor mat but it's different. the rest of the UI remains unchanged. Safari looks the same, Notification Center looks the same, Mail looks the same, App Store looks the same, Dock looks the same, etc etc.
 
nickdalzell said:
Mountain Lion seemed reliable for the whole two weeks i used it before it upgraded, Mavericks is really nothing. it's Mountain Lion with a new name, slower boot time, and two additional apps. most overhyped overpromoted OS ever.

I am glad it didn't change the UI, personally, but i can't stand how it uses 20GB more space for no apparant reason.

Has anyone else 'upgraded' to Mavericks? if so, am i the only one who has noticed absolutely NOTHING? other than the wasted disk space that is...i mean i have Googled it to oblivion and all i see is it being proemoted so much, like it's the 'biggest change ever' and 'worth the upgrade' but i notice NOTHING. it's not an upgrade. more like a software update, maybe. so overhyped. if you're in Mountain Lion, STAY. because Mavericks is still ML

Dashboard had a background image that appeared to look like a rubber floor mat. they changed it so slightly that it might still look sorta like a rubber floor mat but it's different. the rest of the UI remains unchanged. Safari looks the same, Notification Center looks the same, Mail looks the same, App Store looks the same, Dock looks the same, etc etc.
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I've said it before. It seriously sounds like your machine didn't upgrade/update properly. I seem to recall having just less than 50% of my HDD free before the update, and it's in the same general area now. I don't think I lost as much as 20 GB like you say it is, and I even kept a copy of the DMG.

Mavericks is SO MUCH more than the surface. The biggest changes aren't ANYTHING you will EVER see, and that's the power management and memory management. See this: OS X 10.9 Mavericks: The Ars Technica Review | Ars Technica for information on how OS X is managing CPU cycles to improve battery life. Here is info on changes to memory management: OS X 10.9 Mavericks: The Ars Technica Review | Ars Technica

Seriously, that review (that I've linked to in previous posts) is MUCH more than a standard review of new features in the new OS, he gets into the inner workings of the OS. I don't know exactly where he gets his info but he's done the same kind of review for previous versions of OS X.

Attached is a screen shot of my ML dashboard (dock on the left of the screen) and one of my Mavericks dashboard (dock on the bottom). Not much different there and certainly no rubber floor mat.
 

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How the hell do i delete iBooks and Maps? i tried dragging them into the trash and it says 'it cannot be deleted as it's required by OS X' that's horse hockey and i know it! they are mobile apps that in my view have no place on a large laptop and i don't want them. trying to recover some of that lost space and now it won't let me? is there some admin method to force-delete them? i don't want them.

as for dashboard they just changed the wallpaper image. big whoop.

EDIT: never mind, the ol'e Linux method worked (terminal)

BTW just want to prove i'm not making this up. before the waste of time 'upgrade' i had over 485GB free. the 'other' category, whatever it is, only took up 7GB. now it takes up 15GB+ and 'applications' went up another 5GB, and now i'm at 471GB free. so yea, it's a waste of space. i do not know why it shows 'Photos' taking up 700MB+ as the only 'pictures' are my wallpaper and the screenshots on the desktop.



Also, it's definitely OS X 10.9, which is the version number for Mavericks. but from the screen caps you can see it's still Mountain Lion only with a new name. there is no groundbreaking new feature, nothing but a longer boot time, and a 20GB loss to my hard drive.




And, if you're bringing up Android versions, while 4.3 looks exactly the same as 4.1, it isn't wasting any of my internal storage. Mac OS X Mavericks is. wasting 20GB of my hard drive for ZERO Reason. all while adding NOTHING. the performance is the same (although boot is slower) and everything is exactly as it was. they didn't give us Siri, or anything else. there is nothing to warrant the additional space used on my hard drive. it also, since upgrade, is showing 750MB of photos when my 'pictures' folder is empty. and i don't have any movies so why it shows 56MB occupied by 'Movies' is another mystery.
 
nickdalzell said:
How the hell do i delete iBooks and Maps? i tried dragging them into the trash and it says 'it cannot be deleted as it's required by OS X' that's horse hockey and i know it! they are mobile apps that in my view have no place on a large laptop and i don't want them. trying to recover some of that lost space and now it won't let me? is there some admin method to force-delete them? i don't want them.

as for dashboard they just changed the wallpaper image. big whoop.

EDIT: never mind, the ol'e Linux method worked (terminal)

BTW just want to prove i'm not making this up. before the waste of time 'upgrade' i had over 485GB free. the 'other' category, whatever it is, only took up 7GB. now it takes up 15GB+ and 'applications' went up another 5GB, and now i'm at 471GB free. so yea, it's a waste of space. i do not know why it shows 'Photos' taking up 700MB+ as the only 'pictures' are my wallpaper and the screenshots on the desktop.



Also, it's definitely OS X 10.9, which is the version number for Mavericks. but from the screen caps you can see it's still Mountain Lion only with a new name. there is no groundbreaking new feature, nothing but a longer boot time, and a 20GB loss to my hard drive.




And, if you're bringing up Android versions, while 4.3 looks exactly the same as 4.1, it isn't wasting any of my internal storage. Mac OS X Mavericks is. wasting 20GB of my hard drive for ZERO Reason. all while adding NOTHING. the performance is the same (although boot is slower) and everything is exactly as it was. they didn't give us Siri, or anything else. there is nothing to warrant the additional space used on my hard drive. it also, since upgrade, is showing 750MB of photos when my 'pictures' folder is empty. and i don't have any movies so why it shows 56MB occupied by 'Movies' is another mystery.
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My friends computer was the same. 500 gb was used for videos when his videos folder was empty.
 
Does anyone know what 'other' is? it's taking up the most but there is no real definite answer i can find for what it is or how to clean it. any app i was seeing recommended wanted to erase stuff that would make things change for the worse (like remove some user settings, delete things i want, erase saved mail, etc). i want to know how to clean that up or find out where that 'other' is stored at.

Here's another mystery. before Mavericks, i had only '512MB' reported for video memory, and now i have a gig. the hell?
 
OK, try Disk Inventory X to visualize what's using disk space.

As for the video memory, that's one of the "200 new features" you won't see, dynamic video memory allocation. This likely uses some algorithm that analyzes current memory usage and how much memory you have installed and allocates the most it can afford to.
 
Well that helps but now i can't delete the things it finds. like in terminal, i cannot cd to /Library/Desktop Pictures because it has a space in the Desktop Pictures folder. no matter what, bash returns 'no such directory' which is HORSE HOCKEY

is there ANY way to get Mountain Lion back?! i am sick of losing my hard drive to this 'upgrade'. that app Disk Inventory also doesn't help with the space taken by 'other'.
 
tried that and still get 'no such directory'. even tried it in quotes. i ended up just changing Finder prefs and showing my Library folder. but i still got 15GB eaten up in 'other' that no utility i try helps to discover what exactly 'other' is. it was only using 7GB before this 'upgrade'. now i just want ML back. even if i must erase everything, i'd do it. it's not like it has any significant game progress i can't make up again. taking up 20+GB of my hard disk when it has changed *nothing* is unacceptable.

Disk Inventory helped reduce the mysterious '700MB in photos' to a mere 450MB, but it didn't help change the 'other' storage, which has been the bane of my existence ever since i upgraded to Mavericks. i should have 490GB remaining. Mavericks just ate 20 of them. unacceptable
 
Can you get to it in the Finder?

If so, do a cd, space, and then drag the folder from the Finder to Terminal.

If that doesn't work, then your bashrc must be hosed yeah?
 
yeah i was able to find out how to get to it in Finder, but it does not help find out what is taking up the 'other' storage. i was confused by OmniDiskSweeper's UI and afraid to delete something important so i deleted that app. i need something capable of cleaning up 'Other' but i fear that going back to Mountain Lion is the only way, if that is even possible. Mavericks is a waste of hard disk space while offering NOTHING. if you're going to use up 20GB of my hard disk just give me *something*

Heck, even Portal 2 doesn't eat up 20GB+

I'm buying some games i found out are compatible with the Mac and i don't like knowing i am losing disk space and don't want to play any games without finding a way to clean it up, otherwise all that progress is lost if i have to do the Mac equivalent of a 'factory reset'
 
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