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Root [CDMA] Rooting newbie, almost ready! But first some final questions....

K927A

Well-Known Member
First off I hope I don't ruffle any feathers by asking questions that may have been answered already. It's simply easier and a lot less time consuming for me to just ask what I want to know directly rather than pour over pages and pages of info.

Now that it's been over a year, and my warranty having lapsed of natural causes and without incident, I find myself ready to revisit the world of rooting, guilt free (no more warranty to void!). I've read a lot about it already but it seems the more I read the more questions have, so I'm going to try to ask as many of them as I can here, and hopefully get the last bits I need to finally dive in.

For a bit of background: My 3vo is release-day original. I haven't taken any updates , other than PRLs which were apparently pushed and installed automatically. I have the original release day software version (I still enjoy a SILENT camera!) and hboot (1.39?). I haven't even updated any of the apps (and Google maps quit working!).

Questions:
Does rooting simply unlock/grant superuser permission on the phone's existing software somehow? Or does it replace the existing software with an exact but unlocked replica? What exactly changes on the phone to give it root? (and I mean exactly. I understand the concept fully.)

If I'm rooted do I need to unlock my bootloader as well? Do these two happen together anyway? Am I right that it needs to be unlocked in order to flash updated software, or ROMs and that's the main reason to do it?

I've been happy with my device as-is. If I delve into the root world, can I restore to my original state, or will some things be permanently changed, such as the bootloader? As I understand, the bootloader is overwritten or changed in the rooting process; is this reversible?
I don't plan on installing any ROMs at this point in time, if ever. I only want root access for tether, better backups, and other neat apps and uses yet to be discovered (If anyone has any cool or must-have suggestions feel free to make them!).

I'd like to be able to backup my entire device before trying to apply any updates to anything (yes I know I have to use rooted versions of updates to stay rooted). This means a full system image type backup, not just personal info. I understand nandroid backups are like system images; do those include all software firmware, bootloader etc? Basically if I update anything, and find it undesirable I'd like to be able to to revert back. Honestly after reading the ICS thread honestly I'm probably going to keep the software the way it is. As I've already stated, I've been happy with the current setup, bugs and all. Every time I think about updating, the complaints I read about deter me from it. I like controlling my shutter sounds. And ICS at the moment sounds plagued with issues for many. The improvements so far don't outweigh the undesirable changes for me. But I could be wrong, and I wouldn't mind trying out the new stuff, curious to even, just as long as I can go back if I want to. I know without root that isn't possible.

Same thing goes for apps. I'd like to be able to revert back to a previously working version if an app update is less than desirable. I'm guessing/hoping that's something I can do after rooting. I know I can do it with user-downloaded apps, and have done with Astro. So far everything (other than maps) works just fine and I haven't felt the need to tamper with that. I'd like to update a few things and explore/experiment with new features, but I'd like the security of being able to go back if need be. I see a lot of complaints whenever apps are updated, and it seems to be a luck of the draw type thing. I figured if it ain't broke, why fix it?

I'm ready to jump into the root world (been patiently waiting for tether), I suppose the big thing that's held me back is a bit more knowledge on the process in general, and of how to reverse any changes. These questions are just the ones off the top of my head at the moment. I'll probably have more as this thread progresses.
 
I'll answer some of your questions. On my phone so I will probably miss some things and be a bit short with answers. It's lagging a bit too as I type. Someone will probably beat me to it.

With your older hboot version you can most likely root with one click software.

-first question. There are multiple options here. You can simply unlock your bootloader and flash a custom recovery. Then just flash a superuser patch. Unlocking bootloader factory resets the phone. But this method will leave everything completely stock and just add superuser which grants root permission. It's a patch instead of flashing a new rom.
Alternatively and basically the same thing you can flash a stock rom that is completely stock with superuser added. It's basically the same thing. Superuser patch you are rooting your stock rom yourself. The other you are flashing a stock rooted rom. The other option would be to flash a custom rom obviously many to choose from.


-like I said with you being older version you have more options to root. I'm not sure if the old one click methods unlock your bootloader or just get you straight to s-off. If s-off your bootloader never needs to be unlocked. Same goes for upgrading I believe. If s-off you can run an RUU to update to newer versions without unlocked bootloader. S-off basically overrides locked bootloader status.


- whether you unlock bootloader or get s-off the simple answer is yes you can get it back to a state that would cover up all traces of root and be completely stock. They have ruu's for all versions that you can run to put your phone back to completely stock of whatever version you want. Stock bootloader stock recovery everything. To remove root you would then tell your phone to be s-on again and you'd be completely safe to send in for repairs or whatever.


-your nandroid backup that you make in recovery will back everything up. If you restore the backup its like nothing ever happened. It's sort of like a save state on an emulator. You'll be exactly back to that state. You may have to upgrade with ruu's to upgrade your baseware to be able to flash roms on different builds. You wouldn't believe able to flash a stock Ics rom building on ics if you were vanilla or whatever. You'd have to upgrade first. Then downgrade before restoring your older backup.

-you can always use a backup app to backup an app when you install. Then if you hate an update delete the app and restore that app in your backup program.


I hope I at least answered some of your questions and hopefully cleared a few things up for you.
 
LOL you just completely talked circles around me. I completely forgot about S-on/off. What does that mean anyway? Root? or Bootloader unlocked? Maybe I'm in way more over my head than I thought. I'll catch up though.

So if I understand you right, first thing is unlocking the bootloader. Then I can either install a totally stock but rooted version of what I have, or just superuser patch which will grant root. Either way does a factory reset, or in other words wipes out all my data? Is there a way to root without wiping everything out? What's custom recovery all about? I understand what it is in simple terms. Is it necessary to have it?

If I revert back to completely unrooted release day stock as I have, can I root again? It seems I can't back up my phone as is pre-root, I'd have to find a copy of the "rom" that puts it back to where it was, am I right?

If I'm not mistaken, I can't back anything up pre-installed on the phone (for example voicemail app) without root permission first correct?

What would be the best root method for someone with my hboot?
 
Sorry I didn't mean to confuse you more lol. I'm not the greatest at explaining how everything works. It's a lot less confusing once you actually do it.


I'm unfamiliar with your specific hboot. Are you gsm or cdma. I know that the older hboot have other options to root than what I had to do. There are tools you can run like revolutionary s-off that get you s-off in think without unlocked bootloader. I don't know for sure whether or not it factory resets you as I've never done that method or looked into it much because it wasn't an option for me.

I had to unlock the bootloader because I was a later version. I took too many updates. I then got myself s-off which locked my bootloader again. S-off basically means security off. It's a security check that normally won't allow you to write certain things to the system partition. S-off gives you total freedom. Unlocked bootloader still has some limits. But you can still do mostly anything with just unlocked bootloader. Flash roms etc.

A custom recovery is required for flashing anything and for making the backup. Stock recovery just won't do it. If you decided to unlock bootloader the second step would be to flash a recovery to your phone. After recovery was there you would make a full backup of your unrooted stock. Then after backup you would use recovery to flash a rom or superuser patch to root your rom.

Yes you can root again if you unroot. You can't go completely back to factory stock with just a rom. There is a thing called an RUU that you run on your computer with the phone connected that returns it to factory stock and unrooted.

With a backup app like titanium backup pro or my back up pro you can back up everything except app data. When rooted you can also back up the data. So basically it backs up all apps on your phone and market links and makes it easy to reinstall all your apps. So you would be installing the versions you backed up but the actual data would be gone from the factory reset.

I really have to get to bed. I'll try to be more detailed and answer more questions tomorrow when I'm on the computer. Hope you at least got some answers you wanted. In the meantime read the rooting stickies at the top of the board!
 
I was on the fence about rooting my 3VO myself. Mainly because I was worried about messing up my phone and not being able to recover. I did a lot of research before I made my final decision, everything from deciding on a ROM to use to becoming familiar with the process itself. Ultimately, I decided to root my phone. I used the step-by-step guide at the top of this forum and had no trouble with the process. According to your post, you've got a bone stock 3VO, versus mine which was up-to-date before rooting. Check the guide and see if it will work for your phone, and if so, you're golden.

As for S-off...do it. It completes the rooting process. You can be "rooted" and be S-on, but until you go off, that means you have complete writing priveleges. I used the Juonpuntbear "wire-trick" and it worked like a charm the first go round. There are other methods out there such as Revolutionary which will take you down to Hboot 1.4, where as the wire trick will get you Hboot 1.5. Up until last week, I was on Hboot 1.5. I re-flashed the latest RUU (the most recent update to the phone...ICS) which took me to Hboot 1.58, and then re-flashed another ROM. Right now I'm using Negalite ROM which features the Anthrax kernel. Of all the ROMs I've messed around with, this one is by far my favorite next to MeanROM. The Anthrax kernel really helps boost the speed on the phone.

Depending on your goals with the phone, rooting may work out nicely for you. However, if you could care less about updates or having the newest software before it gets to other phones, then I wouldn't bother rooting it. I rooted a friend's 3VO at his request, but he doesn't have as much interest in flashing ROMs and tinkering with the phone like I do. In the end, if you decide to root and after awhile see that it doesn't meet your expectations, then yes, you can revert back to what you had pre-root. That's only if you've backed up correctly and keep your stock recovery file.
 
Can you boot into your bootloader (volume down+power) and tell me the exact h-boot version. I am trying to see what options you have for rooting. It looks like your version might be too early for revolutionary. Also are you GSM or CDMA? What carrier are you on?
 
sorry I haven't had a minute to sit down a reply proper, and still don't. I have more to say on the current replies but for now since I only have a sec I'll just answer Brian quick.
hboot is 1.30.0000, I wrote all that stuff down when I first got the phone.
also I'm cdma/sprint.. remember, that's the only place you could get a 3vo on release day!
I'll have more to say if i get a minute later!
Thanks for all the help so far, believe it or not, it is helping...
 
Looks like I have time now after all lol.
Ok so let me see if I understand. There's unlocked bootloader and s-off correct? After doing one of those two things you can install a superuser patch which grants root right?

What's the difference between unlocked and s-off? Generally? Specifically? Technically?
I've been looking forward to dabbling with titanium, does it back up preloaded apps too? Before root? I have my backup pro. Works great with data. Only backs up apps I downloaded not apps preloaded on the phone. Also wish it had better scheduling options but that's another story. Maybe I'll have to play around with titanium now and see what it can do.

Turbo, you too, clarify for me what s-on/off is. Up until now I'd always thought it was an indication of either being rooted or having bootloader unlocked but from what you guys are saying it seems to be a third unrelated thing? I'm probably not going to install roms, update (at least for now) tinker or otherwise but I do want root so I can use more powerful apps, tether, make nandroids or otherwise more complete backups etc.
Stock recovery file.. that I find online somewhere, probably at xda or something?
 
Read THIS ARTICLE about s-on/off and unlocked bootloader. I really can't explain it well.

I have mybackup pro as well. I think it and Titanium are pretty well the same from what I've read. I haven't tried titanium. Once you root my backup adds the extra root features if you have the paid version. But I think it doesn't backup system apps... Look into rom toolbox. It has backup features for system and user apps and a ton of extra features as well. If I knew about it before my backup pro is would have only gotten that probably. It can back up apps but not app data before rooted. Also I got it after I rooted so I don't know if it can back up system apps without root permission.

Your nandroid backup at time of rooting will back your entire phone up though if you need to revert back. What pre installed app are you wanting to carry over with you?
 
Read THIS ARTICLE about s-on/off and unlocked bootloader. I really can't explain it well.

I have mybackup pro as well. I think it and Titanium are pretty well the same from what I've read. I haven't tried titanium. Once you root my backup adds the extra root features if you have the paid version. But I think it doesn't backup system apps... Look into rom toolbox. It has backup features for system and user apps and a ton of extra features as well. If I knew about it before my backup pro is would have only gotten that probably. It can back up apps but not app data before rooted. Also I got it after I rooted so I don't know if it can back up system apps without root permission.

Your nandroid backup at time of rooting will back your entire phone up though if you need to revert back. What pre installed app are you wanting to carry over with you?

Well just to clear up something between titanium and backup pro. I used backup pro pre root and it just allows you to back up apps without data, sms contacts etc.

On the other hand with titanium, it allows you to back up apps with app data, freeze or even remove system apps (make sure to backup system apps first)

Sent From My HTC Evo 3D Using TapaTalk 2
 
And I use ROM Toolbox Lite, which i love. I am not going to venture to read these long post :rolleyes: so if there is anything important you want to know, keep it short I will try to help, lol :smokingsomb:

Now I use the Pro version which gives you many feature, but the lite (Free Version) is great also.

 
Well just to clear up something between titanium and backup pro. I used backup pro pre root and it just allows you to back up apps without data, sms contacts etc.

On the other hand with titanium, it allows you to back up apps with app data, freeze or even remove system apps (make sure to backup system apps first)

Sent From My HTC Evo 3D Using TapaTalk 2

Titanium can't do all of that pre root right? Backup pro has all the features you listed once rooted. Rom toolbox is awesome though. And it's on sale if you want the extra paid features. It does so much more than titanium and my backup pro.
 
And I use ROM Toolbox Lite, which i love. I am not going to venture to read these long post :rolleyes: so if there is anything important you want to know, keep it short I will try to help, lol :smokingsomb:

Now I use the Pro version which gives you many feature, but the lite (Free Version) is great also.




Plus the cutie in the video alone is enough reason to check it out! :D
 
Read THIS ARTICLE about s-on/off and unlocked bootloader. I really can't explain it well.


Your nandroid backup at time of rooting will back your entire phone up though if you need to revert back. What pre installed app are you wanting to carry over with you?

Ok so I think I get it. S-off is the highest level of freedom. So that's what I want. Anyone know what method would get me there with 1.30 hboot? And also Where I could find the right ROM to go back to stock if/when I need to?

Voicemail is one of the apps. It keeps nagging me to update, and I believe it works outside the market. I'd like to back it and it's data (my voicemails) up before changing it, in case I don't like the update. Since it's not on the market, I can't tell what the update looks like or what it does or if it's problematic or compatible with my completely un-updated software.
 
Lmao @ that video. Looks like an interesting app though, I'd play around with it once rooted for sure
 
You can find stock roms and ruu's HERE

Alternatively stock roms HERE


Just googling around for you it sounds like you can use REVOLUTIONARY to get s-off with your hboot. That would probably be the easiest method.

You will be able to back up your original voicemail apk even unrooted. I haven't noticed any problems with newer versions of the voicemail but I don't use it much.
 
You will be able to back up your original voicemail apk even unrooted. I haven't noticed any problems with newer versions of the voicemail but I don't use it much.

With which app?
In the XDA link, what's odex and deodex mean?
 
With which app?
In the XDA link, what's odex and deodex mean?

Try the free version of rom toolbox in the market.

Honestly it can't explain the difference. I know that odex is the closest to stock and deodex is better if you're into themes and tweaking. Sorry I can't explain it on a technical level.
 
Ok so I've been doing some reading and I have some more questions that hopefully someone can answer. First, I can't do any kind of nandroid-type backing up before I root correct? The best I can do is back up my data?
I've been trying to locate the stock software I have so I can have it on hand before I start and I've actually been having a difficult time. I have hboot 1.30 and 1.11.651.3, and seems i can only find 1.4 and .7 anywhere. I saw one package that was .2 but doesn't mention the hboot; I'd assume it came with 1.30.
Does revolutionary change my hboot version? From what I gathered, it changes it to 1.40.1100, is that right? What happens when I unroot? Again, I haven't seen 1.30, only 1.40.
A sort of post root question: if I don't leave fastboot unchecked will I never be able to boot into recovery if something goes awry?

I found a very informative thread at xda, not sure if I can post links here but it's here. As per usual, while it answered a few questions, it raised that many more.
 
Yet another question. Can I update just my radios after s-off? Does this improve signal for instance for 4g?

I keep seeing that stock ruu for 1.11.651.2, but to my knowledge that version doesn't exist. In everything I've read it's 1.07.651.1 then 1.11.651.3 (which I have). Does anyone know if that's a typo or something? Before I root I'd like to have my stock ruu saved in case I decide to go back (though I don't see why I would). I don't want .7
 
Ok so I've been doing some reading and I have some more questions that hopefully someone can answer. First, I can't do any kind of nandroid-type backing up before I root correct? The best I can do is back up my data? Sort of. You can't do a nandroid backup until you Have a custom recovery installed.. So I'm assuming you would use revolutionary to gain s-off. Then you would install a custom recovery and then you could do a nandroid backup of all your current radios etc. Your entire phone. You've done a lot of research on this, does the revolutionary method wipe your data? I was thinking no, but I assume you know. If not, this means your nandroid backup will even backup every app, etc that you have on your phone. The entire system. Obviously if it wipes your data there won't be any data to backup.. It would still backup your entire phone state at the time of the backup.
I've been trying to locate the stock software I have so I can have it on hand before I start and I've actually been having a difficult time. I have hboot 1.30 and 1.11.651.3, and seems i can only find 1.4 and .7 anywhere. I saw one package that was .2 but doesn't mention the hboot; I'd assume it came with 1.30. Here is the stock RUU and here is the stock rooted rom. I am downloading the RUU right now to verify the hboot version.
Does revolutionary change my hboot version? From what I gathered, it changes it to 1.40.1100, is that right? What happens when I unroot? Again, I haven't seen 1.30, only 1.40. Not that I know of.. But even if it does, Once you are s-off you can put any hboot you want on your phone...
A sort of post root question: if I don't leave fastboot unchecked will I never be able to boot into recovery if something goes awry?
I think this mainly applies when you are using fastboot commands. I am not really sure on this though. But I leave mine off all the time. Hasn't bothered me. I would hope this wouldn't be a make or break deal on whether or not you root. :p

I found a very informative thread at xda, not sure if I can post links here Yes you may :) but it's here. As per usual, while it answered a few questions, it raised that many more.

*
 
Yet another question. Can I update just my radios after s-off? Does this improve signal for instance for 4g? Yes you can. This is very simple if you are s-off. I think different people have different results with different radios. You just have to try a different one and then either restore your backup (assuming you made one before flashing new radios) or flash the older version of the radios.
Here are RADIOS for all versions.

I keep seeing that stock ruu for 1.11.651.2, but to my knowledge that version doesn't exist. In everything I've read it's 1.07.651.1 then 1.11.651.3 (which I have). Does anyone know if that's a typo or something? Before I root I'd like to have my stock ruu saved in case I decide to go back (though I don't see why I would). I don't want .7
I can't find a download for the .3 kernel. Looks like the roms and ruu's all use .2 . I can't imagine there will be big noticeable differences between the two. But I'm sure if you were desperate to find it, someone around here could find a download for you or make one...
 
Yeah I've been doing a lot of reading. Basically I don't like surprises, and I like to be positive "go back" if i don't like where wind up. As far as I know revo doesn't wipe anything at all. That's in their FAQ I believe as well.
It seems that versions before the launch day update of software/hboot are scarce if not nonexistent. Let me know what you find out from the .2 ruu. If you or someone could tell me exactly what the versions are in it, I'd feel better. I'm thinking it has to be a typo because there isn't a .2 software release to my knowledge. That's why I was asking about nandroid type backups before rooting. Basically I was wondering if i could back up my existing hboot/software before running revo.

I'm still not sure if revo changes hboot version. I see peoples revo bootloaders saying 1.40.1100 but then i hear mention of 1.3 s-off. As long as I can change back if I decide not to keep root I guess it doesn't matter. That's really my only concern.

The fastboot thing I was jsut curious about really. Honestly I don't even know what it does. Phone is equally slow to start up with or without it checked :D

Radios I was curious about because in the thick of a major sprint covered city, I get poor signal, slow 3g, and rarely 4g. I was woindering if that had anything to do with me not having the latest radio updates.

Thanks for all the help man, I'm sure all you guys out there answering these questions probably many times over is a big PITA sometimes.
That said I'm pretty excited about getting into this once I'm good and comfortable with it. Revo looks ******ed easy. Hell I might even wind up playing with roms eventually
 
Well my download didn't work... I will have to try again. I will let you know after I try again.

Sorry if I didn't answer something. I'm trying my best to help but im still learning myself!

I like all your questions though because if I don't know the answer I have to do research and learn something!

Also, you definitely will flash more roms once you get the taste! ;)
 
Hey you are doing great, no worries. And I'm glad to hear you're enjoying answering my questions. Seems like a lot of people get frustrated when the same ones get asked too many times, but not everyone has time to scour the internet for days trying to learn everything. And not every question is answered anyways.
 
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