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4th Amendment not applicable in Michigan?

B

BusaRider

Member
Popular Mechanics Article

ACLU demanding Michigan State Police's release documents on how they use the devices

Anyone know of a way to protect our phones from these things? I don't have anything to hide but I don't like the idea that they might be scanning it without consent or a warrant. The idea that a traffic stop can be used as an excuse to rape my phone of all the personal data it contains is disturbing.

After Googling around I found that there is a Cellebrite UFED 2.0 soon to be released. I'm assuming it's designed to work with more models of phones.
 
Hmmm.....I looked at the Cellebrite website, and they have a list of supported phones that looks to be pretty extensive. However, from what I saw, in almost every case, they need to plug into your phone w/ a USB cable, to get at the data. I don't think the device allows them to steal data just by being in proximity to the phone.

In terms of protecting against gaining access to your phone if they have physical access to it and are plugging into it, I suspect it's going to be pretty hard to prevent. You can probably encrypt data stored on the SD card, etc, but, in terms of access to contacts list, etc, I'm guessing that's a given.
 
That is absolutely ludicris. They have no right to go through your phone during a traffic stop. I would hope that gets taken to the supreme court so that they can rule that an invasion of privacy.

If I ever get pulled over in Michigan I guess I'll pull the battery out of my phone so they can suck a bag of dicks.
 
Outlaw71 said:
That is absolutely ludicris. They have no right to go through your phone during a traffic stop. I would hope that gets taken to the supreme court so that they can rule that an invasion of privacy.

If I ever get pulled over in Michigan I guess I'll pull the battery out of my phone so they can suck a bag of dicks.
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+1
 
Cellbrites cannot grab data unless in very close proximity. i use a cellbrite machine on a daily basis. Even the their top of the line devices have only 3 methods of grabbing data: Bluetooth, IrDa, and a tethered connection/sim card/memory card slot. With that said turn off your bluetooth, turn off gps, and hide your data cables if you get pulled over. Or pull the battery as stated above.
 
Ever watch that Jesse Ventura show Conspiracy Theory? I only saw one episode but he was interviewing a technician contractor who claims he does a lot of work for all the 'alphabet' agencies in the U.S. and showed him a device that he said they use to pull all of the data out of your house and has a range long enough to reach from the street to inside a home. He said it can pull the entire contents of all of your wireless devices, all the way from PC's to your phones (without a warrant depending on which agency it is I might add). I think the tech is out there to do it, the question is has it reached street cop level? Maybe not yet, but unless it gets struck down in court, it could.

What you really should be asking yourself is considering how many of us use cloud based apps, and Google's love affair with the feds, does it really matter at this point? If the feds want your phone data, they can probably get it without even leaving their office on the other side of the country or telling you. I'm sure quite a few of you work or have worked for the gov't at some point. Do I really need to remind any of you who have for at least 10+ years that your employer pretty much did whatever they felt like notwithstanding legal technicalities and continued to do so until they were caught? And then once the attention faded away did it again?

I happen to know for a fact that phones belonging to criminal investigation suspects have been tapped for data/voice/text by my local heavy crimes unit. They don't need devices at traffic stops. However, I agree with you in objecting about such a blatant overt use of this on citizens who are NOT being investigated for any wrongdoing. If you're going to violate me, at least make some attempt to hide it so my butt doesn't hurt :p
 
Honestly, I think people are over reacting. At the moment there is no evidence that these devices have ever been used without consent of the phone's owner. They 100% can't search your phone without your consent. Poisoned Fruit much? There's no law that says you have to hand your phone to them and let them search it. I don't see why you would.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Honestly, I think people are over reacting. At the moment there is no evidence that these devices have ever been used without consent of the phone's owner. They 100% can't search your phone without your consent. Poisoned Fruit much? There's no law that says you have to hand your phone to them and let them search it. I don't see why you would.
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Well the Michigan State Police are stonewalling the ACLU for some reason. It's either they have something to hide or just don't feel like complying with the Freedom of Information Act.

I don't care about the poisoned fruit argument. They aren't going to find anything on my phone that would get me in trouble. I don't want them to have a copy of the personal data contained on my phone.

Actually if they copied all the data on my phone they might be in trouble because it contains private emails and text messages back and forth with both my doctor and my lawyer.
 
It sounds to me as though the tech was made to be used on people coming into the United States from Canada, as some of the hijackers from 9/11 made their way into the US that way. So they make the need for it seem legit from an anti-terror POV.

The thing is, I know several cops, and I know that they can be childish, crass, immature, and downright shady. They get a superiority complex and figure they can do what ever they please, whether it's within their rights or not. What was stated above about the government goes for police as well, they break the law all the time until someone finally has the balls to blow the whistle on them... and even then if they don't have some sort of hard evidence then their accusations probably won't do any good.

So IMO giving this kind of tech to ordinary street police to use 'when they feel it's necessary' is just asking for abuse of power to occur. If the cops I know for instance pulled over some guy who had a smoking hot girlfriend in the passenger seat, they would definately use the device to pull all the pics off his phone to see if he had any nudes of her, or vids of themselves, etc...

Which is why IMO, this kind of tech should not be out there in the hands of just anybody.
 
BusaRider said:
I don't care about the poisoned fruit argument. They aren't going to find anything on my phone that would get me in trouble. I don't want them to have a copy of the personal data contained on my phone...
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Right, it has absolutely nothing to do with, "well if you aren't doing anything wrong, they you have nothing to worry about" at all. The things we share with our girlfriends/wives/boyfriends/husbands/kids/doctors/lawyers/etc... over our devices via email/text/video message/etc... are nobody elses business. If I get caught going 60 in a 55, the police officer(s) don't have any right to see what pics my girlfriend has been sending me, nor what I've been sending her. Nor should they see what my son or daughter and I have been discussing. The list goes on and on.

If they had some way to only intercept terrorist types of activities with these things that would be one thing. But the room for abuse seems far to great to be available to street cops.
 
I wonder how log tell either an APP or Rom MOD is made that will block these devices from connecting or prevent any device not allowed to connect even via USB.

I don't see why that wouldn't be possible
 
Outlaw71 said:
It sounds to me as though the tech was made to be used on people coming into the United States from Canada, as some of the hijackers from 9/11 made their way into the US that way. So they make the need for it seem legit from an anti-terror POV.
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those weren't bad people, they were actually UN inspectors trying to find imaginary WMD's and they got lost :(

Or... they might have been campaign workers for the last election trying to drum up support for president obambushbilderberg. hmmm...

I wonder if this post just flagged me for the no-fly no-buy list :eek:
 
Outlaw71 said:
If they had some way to only intercept terrorist types of activities with these things that would be one thing. But the room for abuse seems far to great to be available to street cops.
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I think you've seen too many movies or TV portrayals of professional crisp "G-men" if you really think they're any better in that regard. A police officer's integrity or professionalism don't automatically have it seep into them from a magic residue contained in federal uniforms. It's based on training standards, experience, standards of discipline, recruiting standards, personal ethics. There's quite a few law enforcement agencies in Canada that are well above the scandal-ridden RCMP as far as the above list goes. The feds would rank quite low on the list of people I'd want handling this stuff actually.

Your statement that they would "definitely" do something nefarious like grab nudie pics to play with is pretty presumptuous imo. You know what a city cop makes these days right? Most of them can break 6 figures now w/o even trying. I don't know about you, but I for one sure as hell wouldn't do dumb shit like that and f myself out of that kind of paycheck. I don't know too many people who would. You also forget that cops rat each other out a lot more now than when it was the "blue line" days. someone would find out at the station sooner rather than later and tell the boss just to burn a co-worker they don't like.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Fine. Pick nits. They 100% cannot search your phone without your consent unless the get a warrant.
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Exactly. If they get a warrent, then I'll give them my phone, but not a moment sooner. Same with a car search. I have nothing to hide, but I'm not letting them do it unless they do it the right way. So they can go ahead and call a judge.

Cop- "I need a warrent to search through this guys cell phone."
Judge- "What did you pull him over for?"
C- "Doing 67 in a 65."
J- "Does he have a criminal record that makes you think there is some reason to search his phone?"
C- "No, but he is wearing a tie-dye shirt."
J- "STFU then, you're interupting my golf game with this waste of time! Warrent denied!"

Do NOT surrender your rights just because you have nothing to hide! Do not let them search your car or phone without a warrent, and when they tell you you have the right to remain silent, do it, and do NOT talk to them without getting a lawyer first.
 
omnius said:
Your statement that they would "definitely" do something nefarious like grab nudie pics to play with is pretty presumptuous imo. You know what a city cop makes these days right? Most of them can break 6 figures now w/o even trying. I don't know about you, but I for one sure as hell wouldn't do dumb shit like that and f myself out of that kind of paycheck. I don't know too many people who would. You also forget that cops rat each other out a lot more now than when it was the "blue line" days. someone would find out at the station sooner rather than later and tell the boss just to burn a co-worker they don't like.
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You and I don't know the same cops.

I'd never accuse every police officer of being capable of the things I mentioned, I do realize there are many who have morals, integrity, and standards. But not all of them.

Like the one's I know who let chicks off of DUI's if they show their tits... or the one's who shake down drug dealers for their drugs &/or cash then let them go.... or the one's who target good looking chicks to pull over just to chat... yeah, I wouldn't want that tech in any of their hands.

These aren't cops I saw on tv, I know many local police officers, and when you get around a group of them speaking candidly it's scary the things you hear come out of their mouths. Cops are people too after all. They have the same flaws all the rest of us have. Butwhen you hand over that kind of power to them, some of them use it in ways it was never intended to be used.

That's the real poop.
 
Outlaw71 said:
It sounds to me as though the tech was made to be used on people coming into the United States from Canada, as some of the hijackers from 9/11 made their way into the US that way.
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I'm afraid you're mistaken. None of the 9/11 hijackers entered the US from Canada.
 
here in MA, i know cops will ask to see your cell phone if you have been pulled over for texting, not sure if thats allowed or not, but i've seen it done to friends. So now when driving I shut off mobile data so no one can text me.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Fine. Pick nits. They 100% cannot search your phone without your consent unless the get a warrant.
Click to expand...


I guess I should have clarified I was thinking more along the lines of the federal alphabet agencies, not local law enforcement. In the latter case, I agree with you, but in the former, not so much.

Outlaw, I hear what you're saying, and yes it does happen. Unfortunately there are people like that, but take what solace you can from the fact that the solid and hardworking people who don't do things like that are more numerous than the others, and hold co-workers who engage in those activities and think it's ok in very low regard because personalities like that also tend to be the same ones who cause more work for the rest to make up for their shortcomings and lousy work ethics. Those screw-ups are not the 'cool kids'.
But what you are describing still falls under local shenanigans. Take that kind of power abuse and hand it to a federal agent who has broader powers and you'll agree that the potential for harm becomes more pronounced. He's just as much of a human being as the municipal cop that just showed all his friends a picture of someone's boobies :D

And you're right I don't know the same cops as you. But I do know that I've seen a police force in a sorry condition due to an apathetic leadership administration that didn't care and let the bad apples do pretty much whatever they wanted. Then I saw that same police force get a new administration that wanted to make positive changes, and watched as the a-holes that were ruining it lost their jobs one by one. Maybe the cops you know wouldn't be around under those conditions? Maybe there's a bigger problem with that particular police force? Who knows.
 
Knewz said:
Cellbrites cannot grab data unless in very close proximity. i use a cellbrite machine on a daily basis. Even the their top of the line devices have only 3 methods of grabbing data: Bluetooth, IrDa, and a tethered connection/sim card/memory card slot. With that said turn off your bluetooth, turn off gps, and hide your data cables if you get pulled over. Or pull the battery as stated above.
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memory card slot? Couldn't they just take out your SIM card/memory card and read it from there?
 
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