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Apple and other mega-corporations and the U.S. economy

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Funny how you say "some people don't understand topics like this" but can't disprove what they say while failing to grasp the concept.
 
nlsme said:
Funny how you say "some people don't understand topics like this" but can't disprove what they say while failing to grasp the concept.
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So let me be a tad more clear. What I really mean is this: "some people don't understand topics like this"

See, clarity.
 
Clarity, YOU don't understand the topic at hand, and choose to try to belittle people, instead of making a counter arguement.
 
Please steer the discussion back to the "..Apple donate.." issue at hand and away from negative comments about one another.

Let's keep this thread open and productive, rather than locked and with posts edited, etc.
 
nlsme said:
Clarity, YOU don't understand the topic at hand, and choose to try to belittle people, instead of making a counter arguement.
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When I do, I see it torn it apart, twisted, reformed, and displayed after running it by Professor Wikepedia.
 
You have yet to provide a single example of a product that was made cheaper to the end user because of outsourcing. I have simply stated that every company that has embraced outsourcing, HAS inflated the pay to the execs. Prove me wrong.
 
noah way said:
Forget that you can't understand what the Indian tech support guy is saying because of this thick Hindi accent (tankoo foo colling Dell teek soopor, ow may I elp oo?).

By your argument cheap is always better, even at the cost of the domestic economy and American jobs.

Why wouldn't it be better to have more expensive domestically produced products and import protections to prevent cheap foreign goods from undercutting them? We'd have full employment and high tax revenue.
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Cheap is not always better (i would pay more for US Tech support), but these companies are making the decision that for them - cheaper is better. That's not my call. They do not have a responsibility to the domestic economy or american jobs - their responsibility is to their shareholders (like it or not, that's the way it is in America).

As for more expensive domestic goods - people shop at Wal-Mart for a reason - they WANT CHEAP. Import protections - that get's pretty complicated very quickly and isn't as simple as saying if we restrict imports things will get better.
 
noah way said:
Businesses expand and contract based on response to business conditions. If demand for your your business justifies it, then you have the opportunity to employ more people. This would provide a direct benefit to people who need work and it would fuel the economy.

To say you are not going to expand your business for partisan political reasons is absurd, and could be considered unpatriotic and anti-American.
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Yes, businesses expand and contract because of business conditions - and a major business condition is the political environment and what Congress / the President is going to do next. Right now- that means a whole lot of uncertainty. And businesses loathe uncertainty.

If demand for my business justifies it (as you say) i would expand - but i also consider the COSTS - one of which is HEALTH CARE. Labor and Health care are very major expenses, and quite frankly the health care situation is still up in the air becuase of the idiots in Washington (both sides of the aisle). In fact, if congress had passed a single payer system with no chance of it getting repealed or changed in 2 years, then the future would be clearer and easier to plan for. As it is now, there are a bunch of folks running around talking about repealing ObamaCare, but that is FAR from certain (i doubt it will happen, but i could be wrong). Uh oh - there's that uncertainty.

Also - what if taxes go up significantly? Or Congress does even more stupid things and cause the economy to slow down further thru their stupidity / selfishness? These are HUGE question marks out there. And in order to take further risks - i need to project a larger profit or take less risk. I choose less risk right now.

As for employing more people (as you say) and providing a direct benefit for people that need jobs - I'm not an employment agency. My responsibility is to my shareholders ...

Finally - the reason I am not expanding is NOT political ... it is because politics are a condition my business must consider, as i explained above. There is absolutely nothing unpatriotic about that.
 
nlsme said:
You have yet to provide a single example of a product that was made cheaper to the end user because of outsourcing. I have simply stated that every company that has embraced outsourcing, HAS inflated the pay to the execs. Prove me wrong.
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Wow ..

Me: Outsourcing = lowering the costs of doing business.
You: Outsourcing = higher executive pay.

Is that correct?
 
I just googled "why do companies outsource" .... just for fun.

Here's a pretty good article .... but i'm afraid it doesn't mention executive pay, so you might as well disregard it offhand.

somehow it does talk about lowering the costs of doing business however.

12 Reasons Companies Outsource Operations Overseas | Shrinkage Is Good

there are a TON of articles about why company's outsource ... I'll keep looking for ones about executive pay ...
 
nlsme said:
You have yet to provide a single example of a product that was made cheaper to the end user because of outsourcing. I have simply stated that every company that has embraced outsourcing, HAS inflated the pay to the execs. Prove me wrong.
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And every company that has clocks on their walls has inflated the pay to execs. Prove ME wrong.
 
JimmyRayBob said:
I just googled "why do companies outsource" .... just for fun.

Here's a pretty good article .... but i'm afraid it doesn't mention executive pay, so you might as well disregard it offhand.

somehow it does talk about lowering the costs of doing business however.

12 Reasons Companies Outsource Operations Overseas | Shrinkage Is Good

there are a TON of articles about why company's outsource ... I'll keep looking for ones about executive pay ...
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All very good reasons. If we decided to get back to work in the U.S. of A., we could reduce or eliminate the current barriers to building things here. We need a president what says enough is enough and makes things favorable and business friendly.
 
i'm still looking for that elusive article showing a cause / effect between outsourcing and higher executive pay. Can't seem to find it yet ....

maybe wikipedia can help???
 
Bob Maxey said:
Why not? This is common knowledge and easily verified by the ten billion web sites that report it as well as the Annual Report and other Apple documentation.
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Cuz I don't normally pay any attention to Steve Jobs salary and it seemed strange that a CEO would be paid a $1 salary (what's the point lol), but if you see the rest of the posts, I realized I was wrong.
 
JimmyRayBob said:
i'm still looking for that elusive article showing a cause / effect between outsourcing and higher executive pay. Can't seem to find it yet ....

maybe wikipedia can help???
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Articles highlighting that are numerous..

From Outsourcing: An American Tragedy

"The short-term profits of corporate executives are not more important than the vitality of this nation, and should not be valued more than the American public."

It just follows, outsourcing = lower production, etc costs = higher profits = higher exec pay.
 
So back to the topic: anyone have legitimate reasons why Apple should give the government more money? Remember, he is responsible to lots of people who would not approve of such expenditures.

Just one compelling reason, please.
 
Frisco said:
Articles highlighting that are numerous..

From Outsourcing: An American Tragedy

"The short-term profits of corporate executives are not more important than the vitality of this nation, and should not be valued more than the American public."

It just follows, outsourcing = lower production, etc costs = higher profits = higher exec pay.
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This is a summation of exactly what I was going to say. Corporations hire CEOS and execs and task them with the job of bringing higher profits. That is the CEO's job at the end of the day. The CEO outsources labor, production, etc.... because that cuts costs and brings higher profits. The CEO then says, "Hey, I brought higher profits. I did an awesome job. I should get a pay raise." What is the board supposed to say? They hired a guy to do a job and he did it and did it well. This guy should not be rewarded?
 
Bob Maxey said:
So back to the topic: anyone have legitimate reasons why Apple should give the government more money?
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If you ask me, Apple seems to know how to run a business properly and handle money well, maybe they should take over as our new government? The government should be paying Apple to teach them how to run things properly. I wouldn't give the government one more dine if I could help it.
 
JimmyRayBob said:
Cheap is not always better (i would pay more for US Tech support), but these companies are making the decision that for them - cheaper is better. That's not my call. They do not have a responsibility to the domestic economy or american jobs - their responsibility is to their shareholders (like it or not, that's the way it is in America).

As for more expensive domestic goods - people shop at Wal-Mart for a reason - they WANT CHEAP. Import protections - that get's pretty complicated very quickly and isn't as simple as saying if we restrict imports things will get better.
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You can vote against these companies and their policies by not buying their products and services.
 
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