Boston Bombings (political talk)

[SiempreTuna]

Lets see, the left wants to raise taxes, and the left wants to take our freedom. I'd say you're wrong.

Err .. the biggest attack on your freedoms in the last 12 years - actually, make that 230 years - was carried out by the most right wing government you've had in the last 50 years when it passed the Patriot act.

I'll grant that the democrats ought to have gotten rid of it, but I think you'll find it still has the almost unanimous support of the right wing.

So actually, not wrong. At least about that.

 

[ItnStln511]

Err .. the biggest attack on your freedoms in the last 12 years - actually, make that 230 years - was carried out by the most right wing government you've had in the last 50 years when it passed the Patriot act.

I'll grant that the democrats ought to have gotten rid of it, but I think you'll find it still has the almost unanimous support of the right wing.

So actually, not wrong. At least about that.

But you are very wrong. I see the left wanting to take my guns away to be a lot worse.

 

[sntaylor]

But you are very wrong. I see the left wanting to take my guns away to be a lot worse.

Wow....... Just wow......

Essentially one of the reasons cited for gun ownership is to protect your rights, yet the patriot act breaches several of those rights that you want to protect!?!

This could end up back in gun law territory or patriot act territory which is at least related to the Boston bombings.....clearly that breach of civil liberties worked!

 

[ItnStln511]

Wow....... Just wow......

Essentially one of the reasons cited for gun ownership is to protect your rights, yet the patriot act breaches several of those rights that you want to protect!?!

This could end up back in gun law territory or patriot act territory which is at least related to the Boston bombings.....clearly that breach of civil liberties worked!

Yet another uneducated and uninformed comment from the left. There is a difference, one is national security, one is self defense. Anyone who sees otherwise is clearly mistaken. Not that either of these concern you since you don't live in America, thus don't directly affect you. So it is easy for you to sit there and say that I shouldn't have my gun, when it in no way concerns you.

 

[pbf98]

again getting back on the topic of the bombings / bombers

Boston bombing suspects planned Times Square blasts, Bloomberg says - CNN.com

The two were planning to bomb time square only days after their first bombing, answers the question why they were still in the states after the bombing...

 

[chrlswltrs]

again getting back on the topic of the bombings / bombers

Boston bombing suspects planned Times Square blasts, Bloomberg says - CNN.com

The two were planning to bomb time square only days after their first bombing, answers the question why they were still in the states after the bombing...

I'm not saying they didn't plan to bomb anywhere else, but CNN and Bloomberg are neither one reasonable sources...

Bloomberg has gone completely loony, and CNN makes up news and neglects reporting the truth all the time.

 

[Gmash]

Yeah, CNN makes stuff up, but you get your conspiracy theories from Infowars.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Yeah, CNN makes stuff up, but you get your conspiracy theories from Infowars.

Oh come on, it's not like Alex Jones could possibly profit from the deliberate spreading of misinformation to susceptible minds! How could these people possibly benefit?

There's a conspiracy theory for ya.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Wow....... Just wow......

Essentially one of the reasons cited for gun ownership is to protect your rights, yet the patriot act breaches several of those rights that you want to protect!?!

This could end up back in gun law territory or patriot act territory which is at least related to the Boston bombings.....clearly that breach of civil liberties worked!

My reason for championing gun ownership is covered in the little old Constitution and the Bill of Rights. AND, the historical record that helps explain why we ended up here in the first place.

You really must read some U.S. history and gain a little perspective.

 

[ItnStln511]

My reason for championing gun ownership is covered in the little old Constitution and the Bill of Rights. AND, the historical record that helps explain why we ended up here in the first place.

You really must read some U.S. history and gain a little perspective.

Well said, Bob Maxey!

 

[scary alien]

Couple of posts edited and deleted above...

Spirited, respectful posting is allowed--attacking other members is not.

Thanks for understanding and cooperating.

 

[SiempreTuna]

But you are very wrong. I see the left wanting to take my guns away to be a lot worse.

So your opinion is that gun righs are more important than all the rights curtailed by the Patriot Act - privacy, legal representation, fair trail, habeas corpus, not getting tortured etc etc. Kind of a strange priority, but it's your opinion so that's fine.

Not entirely sure what that has to do with the broader issue that the right DID curtail your rights, while the left did NOT.

 

[ItnStln511]

So your opinion is that gun righs are more important than all the rights curtailed by the Patriot Act - privacy, legal representation, fair trail, habeas corpus, not getting tortured etc etc. Kind of a strange priority, but it's your opinion so that's fine.

Not entirely sure what that has to do with the broader issue that the right DID curtail your rights, while the left did NOT.

Again, you're very wrong as the right did not curtail my rights. The idiotic left is by attempting to take my guns away. And again, this doesn't concern you as you're not in the US. Also, you might want to look at what obama did in Boston. I'm sure the bombers rights were curtailed as they were not given access to council. Please, get educated! The left DID, are, and will continue to interfere with my constitutional rights.

 

[sntaylor]

I think what both of us lefty brits are trying to say is...oh wait sempre tuna already did, the patriot act impedes your 1 St amendment, which the second was written for you to use, to protect the first?

Wetherwe stay in the us or not doesn't matter with us having opinions on an international forum! And the patriot act can affect us,I believe even while sitting in our own homes!

And technically gun laws can as well, as it has been pointed out in Britain we still have some illegal guns imported from countries including....the states! If there was a ban, there would be less imported to us!

 

[SiempreTuna]

Again, you're very wrong as the right did not curtail my rights

You have heard of the Patriot Act, right

The idiotic left is by attempting to take my guns away

But they didn't.

So they HAVEN'T take away your rights.

And again, this doesn't concern you as you're not in the US

Oh, but I'm very concerned.

Also, you might want to look at what obama did in Boston

What Obama did in Boston

I'm sure the bombers rights were curtailed as they were not given access to council

They were given access to council. An existing and totally constitutional exemption was exercised that allowed the police not to Mirandise suspects for a limited period time. My understanding is that council was provided before that period of time had elapsed.

Please, get educated! The left DID, are, and will continue to interfere with my constitutional rights.

Well, except that didn't, aren't and (unfortunately, in the case of gun rights) won't.

While the right did, are and will continue to ACTUALLY interfere with your rights. And rights that really matter.

You could actually argue that the left were fighting to get you a new right - the right not to be shot.

 

[ItnStln511]

I think what both of us lefty brits are trying to say is...oh wait sempre tuna already did, the patriot act impedes your 1 St amendment, which the second was written for you to use, to protect the first?

Wetherwe stay in the us or not doesn't matter with us having opinions on an international forum! And the patriot act can affect us,I believe even while sitting in our own homes!

And technically gun laws can as well, as it has been pointed out in Britain we still have some illegal guns imported from countries including....the states! If there was a ban, there would be less imported to us!

Except the topic was gun laws in America! Again, let me point it out for the uneducated brits. There IS a difference between national security, and wanting to take my guns away. Wanting to take my guns away will limit my self defense, and my constitutional rights. My neighbors house was broken into last month. It took the police well over thirty minutes to respond. Also, I'm going to call your bluff. I believe that the Patriot Act only applies to US citizens. Yes, how's your gun bam working in England? Only criminals gave guns, right? That's how it'll be here if the uneducated, unintelligent left has their way. I'll keep my guns in my country, keep your uneducated opinions in your country. Like has been said on another topic, our laws don't concern you, yet when Germany is bombing your country, you run to the Americans wanting help.

 

[ItnStln511]

You have heard of the Patriot Act, right



But they didn't.

So they HAVEN'T take away your rights.



Oh, but I'm very concerned.



What Obama did in Boston



They were given access to council. An existing and totally constitutional exemption was exercised that allowed the police not to Mirandise suspects for a limited period time. My understanding is that council was provided before that period of time had elapsed.



Well, except that didn't, aren't and (unfortunately, in the case of gun rights) won't.

While the right did, are and will continue to ACTUALLY interfere with your rights. And rights that really matter.

You could actually argue that the left were fighting to get you a new right - the right not to be shot.

I'll answer this, in detail when I get off of work. I am too busy to pick apart the fallacies here.

 

[sntaylor]

Except the topic was gun laws in America! Again, let me point it out for the uneducated brits. There IS a difference between national security, and wanting to take my guns away. Wanting to take my guns away will limit my self defense, and my constitutional rights. My neighbors house was broken into last month. It took the police well over thirty minutes to respond. Also, I'm going to call your bluff. I believe that the Patriot Act only applies to US citizens. Yes, how's your gun bam working in England? Only criminals gave guns, right? That's how it'll be here if the uneducated, unintelligent left has their way. I'll keep my guns in my country, keep your uneducated opinions in your country. Like has been said on another topic, our laws don't concern you, yet when Germany is bombing your country, you run to the Americans wanting help.

One part was about guns, sempre then mentioned the patriot act, which my reply has been referring to.

And the patriot act, does limit your constitutional rights, which the RIGHT put in place.

www.computing.co.uk/ctg/analysis/2121905/woried-uk-guardians-patriot-act shows how it could affect me!

Not to mention, God forbid I ever wanted to go a holiday, say somewhere in America like Disney land!

as for guns in England and only criminals, yes and no.... Hand guns yes, as is the case in Scotland where I am! But, and this is the biggest part....it's only hardened criminals, drug runners, gang members that have them and carry. The people raping, robbing and beating people up for a wallet, tend not to have guns!

As for the war......not quite sure that's how it happened but hey what would I know right. I'm clearly uneducated!

 

[SiempreTuna]

Yes, how's your gun bam working in England?

It has worked really, really well: for every 100,000 people, we have 40 times fewer gun-related deaths than the US.

A 4,000% better performance can hardly be dismissed as a statistical anomaly. Perhaps it helps you understand why we feel we may have something to contribute to the current debate in the US. It's always smart to consider the experience of others.

 

[pbf98]

I would like to ask everyone to please stop debating guns on here as there is a thread dedicated to that issue! I don't want to see this thread get locked for crossing topics. So I ask if you're going to bring up guns in your discussion please relate it to the bombings in some way
Thank you!

Anyway, multiple sources have said that the bombers planned the attack on time square, I chose to use the source that went into the better detail from my opinion. After the whole situation I think everyone was reminded just how accurate the news can be sometimes with falsely accusing two innocent men and publishing images of them.

 

[Gmash]

So, after seeing the interviews with both of the parents, I can see how these two got so twisted in the head. Both of them have some serious screws loose. The mother especially seems batshit crazy.

 

[Slug]

Off-topic posts deleted. There's a perfectly good topic dealing with gun control; please use it.

 

[Gmash]

Anybody have any thoughts about the Russians warning the US about Tsarnaev? I think it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but they can't keep every suspicious person under surveillance all of the time. Maybe they should have thought twice about letting him back in the country after he went to Russia for six months, though.

 

[copestag]

when a person comes to this country as a political refugee.... his home country warns he was under suspicion as a terrorist is his reason for fleeing...... then he returns to his home country (not many refugees freely return)........ then comes back to the US... then the Russians again contact the US and give them another warning that he is a radical terrorist...... and the US ignores all evidence......

I call it just another day in America

maybe we can peacefully negotiate the victims back to life

 

[SiempreTuna]

It's the perennial problem of security: you have to win every time, the bad guy just has to win once.

Even if you had the money, I doubt there are enough trained surveillance people in the US to keep watch on all potential terrorists. And even when they are being watched, you sometimes miss things.

For example, yesterday 6 guys were convicted of trying to bomb a political rally here in the UK. One of them was apparently being watched by MI5 (like the FBI but more of an intelligence agency while the FBI is more of a policing agency) but he was being watched as part of an investigation into another terrorist plot: since this wasn't part of that plot, they weren't tracking him on this occassion. The only reason these 6 were caught is they were in an uninsured car and were pulled over by a traffic cop.

Kinda lucky. What was even luckier is that the rally they went to bomb finished early so they missed it - and they were only caught on the way home.