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Church Burning Holy Korans

Crude said:
Did anyone pay attension to the media today on this subject? The Pastor was told that the Imam in NY was moving the location of the mosque and so he wasn't going to burn the books. Only to find out he was being misled.
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You mean, of course, the pastor says he was told that. Considering the pastor's disconnection from reality and the fact that he was forced to leave an overseas posting because of his craziness and financial misdealings, there is no reason to believe a word he says.

He's a crackpot, with an even dumber congregation.
 
CRPercodani said:
I tend to stay away from politics and religion but this is just stupid. Burning those scriptures won't stop them from building the mosque, all it will do is get the crazies more pissed then they already are. Our troops still serving over there will be at such a high risk for violence. Every religion has crazy assholes that like to hurt or kill people, don't hold it against everyone for a fews actions.
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Wait so it's ok to burn the flag and piss off the crazies and burn the bible and piss off the crazies but we shouldn't piss of THESE crazies? You can't be serious? If all it takes is a few crazies to influence our freedom then...

Look I think it's dumb, I think burning a symbol is dumb. I think giving a symbol the respect to offend is equally as dumb. However if America started giving terrorist what they wanted each time they kidnapped some one we be see kidnappings all over the planet.

I support the guy who is doing nothing illegal. I support our troops turning the faces of terrorist inside out also who are doing things illegal. I do not support anyone trying to infringe on our freedoms.
 
Crude said:
Wait so it's ok to burn the flag and piss off the crazies and burn the bible and piss off the crazies but we shouldn't piss of THESE crazies? You can't be serious? If all it takes is a few crazies to influence our freedom then...

Look I think it's dumb, I think burning a symbol is dumb. I think giving a symbol the respect to offend is equally as dumb. However if America started giving terrorist what they wanted each time they kidnapped some one we be see kidnappings all over the planet.

I support the guy who is doing nothing illegal. I support our troops turning the faces of terrorist inside out also who are doing things illegal. I do not support anyone trying to infringe on our freedoms.
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I dont think its OK to burn the flag, or the bible, the koran or any other symbol. HOWEVER that is what the first amendment is there for. I dont agree with white supremacists, but that is their right to follow the agenda that they want to follow, as long as they dont infringe on other peoples rights to live.

I think they are the same kind of fundamental extremists that perpetrated the 9/11 attacks and should be grouped in with em.

To be that depraved and racially biased in this era of global networking is just beyond me. How someone can take something as basic as an accident of birth that caused someones skin to be the color it is and hold that against them is the biggest waste of time I can imagine. I dont give 2 shits what color someone is, if their an asshole, their an asshole regardless of what color they are.

If someone holds Islam as their higher power and guiding light through this game of life, more power to them and I wish them well. The second they turn that guidance into a call to destroy symbols and kill anyone that doesnt fall in line with their view of the world, they become an enemy to the things that I hold dear and I would gladly pull the trigger on them myself.

Killing and maiming innocents and those who disagree with your views is simply idiotic. I live in america, I'm not proud of alot of the things that have been done by this country, but I do support the foundation of it, even knowing that many of our personal liberties are disappearing every day. This country has a solid foundation that the politics of the last 100 years have done a great job of working to destroy.
 
mpw said:
The 'mosque' developers aren't breaking any laws; you support them?
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I know many muslims, Devout muslims who are opposed to that mosque. Their objection comes from the history of that site, that is sacred ground. I would be opposed to any religion claiming that ground as their own.

That ground is not christian, or jewish, or muslim, it is AMERICAN, bought with innocent blood.
 
woaw, wait a minute. I do not support this pastor. I support his right to free speech. The mosque is something I'm against for the sake of common decency. It's legal yes, but you're an asshole for doing it. Just like that church that protests at funerals of our soldiers. Which is legal...but they are assholes. America used to have a few crazies but mostly very considerate people. I heard about a time where you wouldn't buy a ready nice car to keep from breaking the mold. America is more crazies with a few considerate people here and there. Think about, when was the last time you held the door for anyone? Or bought done lemonade from the kid at the corner just to see him smile? Do you say please and thank you? Do you keep eye contact while talking to someone? Wish people a good day even if they are just checking you out at walmart? Do you move out of the left lane if someone comes up behind you on the interstate? This is just a sample of my mindset. Take inventory of your own habits...
 
infil said:
...That ground is not christian, or jewish, or muslim, it is AMERICAN, bought with innocent blood.
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And the developer of the proposed community centre is American. He's said he's open to dialogue with New Yorkers about the construction of the community centre, a small percentage of which will be a muslim prayer space; why don't those concerned New York Jews enter a dialogue for a portion to be a Jewish prayer space, or Hindus etc.?

Crude said:
...The mosque is something I'm against for the sake of common decency...
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Thanks for answering my question.

Crude said:
...It's legal yes, but you're an asshole for doing it...
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I assume this is a typo(parapraxis perhaps?), and you mean 'they're', not 'you're'.

Crude said:
...Think about, when was the last time you held the door for anyone? Or bought done lemonade from the kid at the corner just to see him smile? Do you say please and thank you? Do you keep eye contact while talking to someone? Wish people a good day even if they are just checking you out at walmart? Do you move out of the left lane if someone comes up behind you on the interstate? This is just a sample of my mindset. Take inventory of your own habits...
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Today, never, yes, yes(unless they're talking dirty, and it's doggy-style), yes, yes.

I feel bad about the lemonade, but that's a very American thing I've never had the opportunity to partake; not sure what you mean about your mindset, but having taken inventory I feel pretty good about my character.
 
Those question are just the beginning and meant as more of a suggestion. I really didn't want an answer to them.
 
infil said:
I know many muslims, Devout muslims who are opposed to that mosque. Their objection comes from the history of that site, that is sacred ground. I would be opposed to any religion claiming that ground as their own.

That ground is not christian, or jewish, or muslim, it is AMERICAN, bought with innocent blood.
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Yet there are synagogues and Christian churches surrounding that area as well.

Yet, when you say it is American, so would you agree then that every religion should have a place around that area considering that what America is "founded" upon? The freedom of religion. To be able to have all of those religious buildings coexist is American in a sort of way.

I still do not see what harm the community center can cause by being built there.

Also, burning the American flag, I am still curious why this is so looked down upon? It is a flag, a scrap of linen designed with tons of different symbols on it that has millions of clones around, its not one specific flag that is held up among the others. Speaking of the burning of the flag, this relates to the burning of religious texts because in the end there are billions more copies out there in the world, why is it such a horrible thing to burn a few copies? More will just be printed out. Its not like anyone is burning the original Declaration of Independence. I am in no way condoning what this stupid preacher is doing, I am trying to describe parallels.
 
So many world religions, which one should I choose if I felt the need. I mean which one is right?

As for the guy who wanted to burn the Koran he is no better than the Muslims who burn the US flag. They should all be imprisoned for inciting racisms. Black, white, Christian, Muslim or Jedi anyone who seeks to turn one against the other should not enjoy their freedom.



Just the thoughts of an atheist who doesn't give a toss :)
 
Its the symbolism of destroying a sacred symbol. That flags existence was bought with blood. The site at Ground Zero was bought and paid for in blood. That is not a place for anything other than symbols of rememberance for those who died. Cherish the lives taken on that day, honor the memory of those who died. That site, IMO should have been left with debris and rubble there. America has a bad habit of forgetting things.

Obviously thats not something that was safe or realistic to do, but once my generation is gone, the world trade center will be relegated to history, along with other things that should not be forgotten but are taken for granted. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, D-Day, the Holocaust, JFKs Assasination, troops being spat upon returning home from Vietnam. These are things that are taught in history classes, however there is an ever shrinking group of people who were around for these things to happen.
 
Sid Bonkers said:
So many world religions, which one should I choose if I felt the need. I mean which one is right?

As for the guy who wanted to burn the Koran he is no better than the Muslims who burn the US flag. They should all be imprisoned for inciting racisms. Black, white, Christian, Muslim or Jedi anyone who seeks to turn one against the other should not enjoy their freedom.



Just the thoughts of an atheist who doesn't give a toss :)
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Athiests FTW! \m/
:)
 
infil said:
Its the symbolism of destroying a sacred symbol. That flags existence was bought with blood. The site at Ground Zero was bought and paid for in blood. That is not a place for anything other than symbols of rememberance for those who died. Cherish the lives taken on that day, honor the memory of those who died. That site, IMO should have been left with debris and rubble there. America has a bad habit of forgetting things.

Obviously thats not something that was safe or realistic to do, but once my generation is gone, the world trade center will be relegated to history, along with other things that should not be forgotten but are taken for granted. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, D-Day, the Holocaust, JFKs Assasination, troops being spat upon returning home from Vietnam. These are things that are taught in history classes, however there is an ever shrinking group of people who were around for these things to happen.
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This is true
Especially the Vietnam thing, most of those soldiers were just following orders

They didnt install a dictator or decide to use chemical warfare on civilians (indirectly), the commanders and generals did :(
 
infil said:
...That is not a place for anything other than symbols of rememberance for those who died...
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Within the development of the community centre that this pastor is protesting against is a memorial to the victims of 9/11; are you saying that there should be no development with a 2-block(more?) radius of the site of the WTC?
 
smacky said:
I think atheist extremists are worse than any religious extremists. Or, they got on my nerves more. They're certainly no better. But I might be stating the obvious by using the term "extremists."
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I think any extremist annoys the crap out of me..

I'm agnostic.. so I've gotten it from all sides..

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy. Don't say you don't believe in god and then make a religion out of it. (Swear to you some people do just this).

Don't say you believe in a peaceful loving god.. Then tell me I'm going to hell because I question his existence..

Don't tell me you are uncertain about your beliefs thus I must question mine X.x

*begins worshipping Lord Sithis and the night mother praying for the death of extremist*

*Edit*

And for what its worth..

If people can burn bibles.. why not let em burn Qu'rans or any other religious symbol? I think these things should be done equally. (note I am not talking about artefacts or anything)..

Is it a message of hate and ignorance? absolutely!
Do I care? not really..
There will always be stupid people doing stupid things... doesn't really concern me.
 
This is just an example of how things can get way out of hand.

I personally blame the media. This Pastor has a following of about 50 members, the world as a whole stood no chance of catching wind of this without the medias help. I don't agree with what Jones is doing with this in the slightest but honestly:
Who cares what 50 people do in some backwater town, the act of burning a religious book on its own does not harm anyone.
The act of burning religious materials whilst standing on a giant soapbox created by our fiends in the media, has the potential to harm egos around the world.

Personally I don't understand why anyone cares what materials are being destroyed, after all none of the koran being burnt are of any real religious value, I'll bet that none of them where even owned by an actual Muslim.

If these guys want to go to the store and buy as many Koran as they can just to burn them I say power to them. They are just giving money to the most-likely Islamic publisher
 
mpw said:
Within the development of the community centre that this pastor is protesting against is a memorial to the victims of 9/11; are you saying that there should be no development with a 2-block(more?) radius of the site of the WTC?
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Not at all. I think a memorial is definitely fitting, and possibly some form of museum to keep the memories of that day fresh. This country has a horribly short memory unfortunately.

My objection to a Mosque at the site, is the same objection to a church or synagogue. It was not one single religion that was attacked, or lost followers. It was america loosing its people in a cowardly, calculated attack on what america stands for.

No one religion holds claim to that site, and I think to infuse religion with that event gives the terrorists a victory in a sense as it was islamic jihadists that planned and executed the attack.
 
Yet, like I have said, there is not just a mosque within a five block radius, there are multiple religious centers.
 
Familyguy1 said:
Yet, like I have said, there is not just a mosque within a five block radius, there are multiple religious centers.
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How many of those came after 9-11? Why bother, that's irrelevant anyway.

The attacks were perpetrated in the name of islam, radicals or not. No other religion can lay claim to this amount of casualties in the United states. That alone should cause us to take a close look at Muslims. I don't believe that being Muslim makes you dangerous. I believe that profiling works so lets profile.

Trying to compare religions on this matter is at best diversionary.
 
In that reasoning you can profile every religion.. Catholic churches should be allowed near schools cause we all know what they do to little boys. And we cant put synagogues near banks cause god knows what will happen.
 
I think it's just stupid what the guy did/is planning to do. I myself am a Christian and do not believe in/agree with other religions, but I think it's just horrible to insult others like that. There are other ways to be evangelical (not sure if that's the right word because I don't know all the details on his reason for doing/planning to do what he did) without insulting others and being aggressive.
 
Crude said:
How many of those came after 9-11? Why bother, that's irrelevant anyway.

The attacks were perpetrated in the name of islam, radicals or not. No other religion can lay claim to this amount of casualties in the United states. That alone should cause us to take a close look at Muslims. I don't believe that being Muslim makes you dangerous. I believe that profiling works so lets profile.

Trying to compare religions on this matter is at best diversionary.
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You do realize that about 6000 people died in this tragedy right?

6000 people is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things, the Iraq war, since 2003 has caused an estimated 95,888
 
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