God?

[Vinsanity93]

He acts so subtly that it's like he's not even there (Futurama reference)

 

[EarlyMon]

Debating is good just like competition is good. But Christians can't prove that god exist just like we can't prove apple will have an iphone 5 out . We can only speculate .

Well, have Christians thought of teaming up with other god-based belief systems?

Or if you're trying to say to the iPhone 5 doesn't have a prayer, then I think that's silly, unless you think they'll skip it and go straight to iPhone 6 just to confuse people.

Personally, I think this year they may drop the number thing - but that would go against current dogma. Apple, not the Christians.

 

[ScorpDX]

In before the lock

...because threads about religion/god never end well!

 

[Outlaw71]

I think this year they may drop the number thing - but that would go against current dogma.

Oh God i hope they don't go dropping the number moniker. I have been saving my pennies to get an iPhone 69!

The one Apple product I could see myself getting.

 

[chrisinsocalif]

I say YES. Yes he can create a rock so big that he himself cannot move it. Man builds structures so big that the crew themselves cannot move it/them so it is not a stretch because God made man in his own image or some such.

The reason God cannot move the big, old rock is simple: he is not omnipotent. He simply has powers that are so far above/beyond mere mortal man's abilities to understand, they they seem endless. He has limits, indeed.

And that's that.

Bob

That is essentially an unsupported blind assertion which again doesn't explain anything just replaces one complex scenario with another.
Many people can speculate on the existence of God but have yet to prove it.
Until then, it ranks up there with all other mythology.

 

[Frisco]

I feel that the "rock so heavy" postulate is a classic absurdity that relies on our inability to understand omnipotence.

We have those terms in our language, omnipotence, infinity, eternity, etc, but we use them as if they are more like, "real strong," "real far away" and "a long time," which are all infinitely inaccurate.

If we could imagine such things in the same way that we can imagine how high Mount Everest is, or how far the Moon is away from the Earth, or how long it takes for the second hand on an accurate clock to make one trip around, we'd be this Omnipotent Being we are assigning those attributes to.

As it is, we just have all these labels for Him and we then debate or argue or kill one another over whether or not He's even in existence (to me, "He" is just a language convenience in this discussion, more than assigning a gender to God).

 

[Outlaw71]

Proving and disproving these things is utterly impossible. They'll never prove God doesn't exist any more than they'll prove the universe is infinite. How could they prove that? There is no way to measure infinity to prove that it's infinite.

These are just tasks that people aren't smart enough to realize they'll never solve. As smart as the scientists are that are attempting to prove that the universe is infinite or that it's finite, they're too dumb to realize there isn't anyway to do either.

 

[Epicurean]

Getting into this thread a little late, but have you heard of the (Beer Bubble) Multiverse? The article is a little old, and the theory would seem to be impossible to prove.

I saw on one of the science shows on teevee that it could be proven by getting an accurate shape of our own universe. One would expect it to be round as it expands uniformly in all directions. But if you look closely at real beer bubbles, they are not round. They are pressed in by the other beer bubbles around them. If our own universe appears to be likewise "pressed in", then it would lend more credence to the Multiverse theory.

 

[Epicurean]

Regarding god, I always like to stick to the facts. And here are some to think think about.

1. If god created the universe, then he must be able to exist outside of it. By definition.

2. The universe is very big. It is unimaginably big. Over a trillion stars. That's one star for each grain of sand on all the beaches on the planet.

The creator of such a universe that is so vast, and so far away (he can exist outside of it remember?), s/he probably doesn't care much about what is going on on the third planet of a minor sun in the outer rim of the Milky Way galaxy. Of course, ymmv.

 

[bluenova]

Wow 6 months have gone by so quickly and here we are again with the regular as clock-work God thread.

I must say that this one is going quite well so far though and I've read some very interesting views.

To this point I've only deleted 4 posts that were either plain insensitive or verging on insensitive but I've not taken any further action on those posts.

I'm going to say now be VERY careful what you say in this thread. As the site rules state it's fine to disagree and debate but only in a respectful way. That means showing respect to members as well as all people of faith and those who have no faith. This is a very sensitive subject and people can get easily hurt.

Any posts below this one that are in the slightest way dis-respectful, derogatory or plain insulting will be removed and the member will receive a short holiday from the boards.

With that said, let's hear your views...

 

[byteware]

Theist state that god cannot be explained, that god is beyond time and space , and that god has always been here since before time and always will be.f But nothing could have existed before time.

If God exists, he exists outside of time. There is no before, or after, there just is.

There is no before time. Before is based on time.

So if god created time and space, who created god? And what was before time? I think that if god does exist he or it is not anything supernatural but just matter since matter is energy and energy can be created nor destroyed.

God exists, not before, not after, just exists.

If God exists, he is outside of time.

If God exists, he exists outside of this plane, or dimension (Scientists generally accept the existence of other dimensions, and the ability to influence them. They also generally believe that physics may not work the same in other dimensions as they do here.)

So in that essence since im an agnostic and until god is proven im siding with science because science has a theory that works. Science states states the big bang created our universe which created, time and space.

Science attempts to explain the how, and religion attempts to explain the why.

Science and Religion don't necessarily conflict.

 

[bluenova]

Science attempts to explain the how, and religion attempts to explain the why.

Science and Religion don't necessarily conflict.

Love that.

 

[Mac_Leod]

Science states states the big bang created our universe which created, time and space.

Did you know that when the theory of the Big Bang was first proposed, physicists didn't accept it because it implied there was a "beginning"? Do you know which major organization embraced the Big Bang theory? The Catholic Church.

 

[lunatic59]

"God created man in his own image, and man returned the compliment."

--Voltaire

 

[bigbadwulff]

OK dammit I'll bite

Grew up Catholic. Was baptised early on. Came to dislike the Church for it's hierarchy. Then, when the sex-with-little-boys scandal hit, I divorced myself from it. Yeah, I know it is "isolated" events. But the way they handled it left a bad taste in my mouth(that's funny in itself).
I have since moved to another form of Christianity and have witnessed God's work in action. Won't go into details because those that don't believe don't really care nor will it move them to accept.
Was baptised "again" the way it says to in the bible(full immersion). Since then I have become a much more calm person. I guess the thought of being saved has left me with an inner calming. Not trying to preach here nor say one way is THE way but I just know it's effect on me.
I've been active in a mission in Mexico and that has been very rewarding. Still working to have a relationship with God. Most times I get in the way of that and that is just human nature.
Don't know what more to say other than that.
But if you find yourself searching for something and don't know(or realize you are), then maybe you need to search somewhere else.
Done, finished. Thank you

 

[droiduzr2]

Why is it that thousands of years ago if you heard God speak to you, you got your very own book in the bible. But now a days if you hear God speak to you, you get your very own straight-jacket and a padded room?

Evolution??

btw- Do people that believe in a God also believe that Space Aliens exists?

God/Religion is a man made concept to keep control over other men/women. You had to keep the people in fear somehow so they would work for free and or pay taxes as well as not band together to overthrow the rulers.

Ponder this, if you and 10 other people were born on an island with no outside influences...how would you know about Religion/God.

 

[byteware]

Evolution??

btw- Do people that believe in a God also believe that Space Aliens exists?

I see no inherent Conflict between the belief in God, and the belief in life on other worlds.

Ponder this, if you and 10 other people were born on an island with no outside influences...how would you know about Religion/God.

You wouldn't unless God made himself known... which according to the Bible... he did.

I don't see how pondering this question is supposed to reveal something to those who believe in God though...

 

[HalfFrozen]

Evolution??

btw- Do people that believe in a God also believe that Space Aliens exists?

God/Religion is a man made concept to keep control over other men/women. You had to keep the people in fear somehow so they would work for free and or pay taxes as well as not band together to overthrow the rulers.

Ponder this, if you and 10 other people were born on an island with no outside influences...how would you know about Religion/God.

I would think that those who do believe in God aren't so much going to along with Aliens existing so much, as one would think, that is.

I have seen that more Agnostics/Atheist's/non-believers of any sort look to the stars and wonder HOW another species ISN'T out there.

I mean, thousands of years ago people thought the earth was flat, when you get to the end, you fall off. Nothing is past that, I for one would have been one of the ones not just saying "oh well ok then, I guess I don't want to find out, so I will never look into myself" but "Well what does the end look like, and why does it just drop off?" Its things like that, that make me look at Man Kinds past and wonder how more people didn't question things they are told by others.

I am rambling like always in Religious threads...

I just think that if people would question things more without being biased, they would see alot of what they have been reading/told doesn't make the least bit of sense to a logical thinking person.

 

[HalfFrozen]

You wouldn't unless God made himself known...

How?

which according to the Bible...

You were born on an island, which doesn't have books.

he did.

I wouldn't go that far.


I don't see how pondering this question is supposed to reveal something to those who believe in God though...

It is saying, without that 'holy book' and no outside contact with anything else,
you wouldn't believe in a 'god'.

Ultimately, when you think about it, the question relates PERFECTLY to mankind of Earth...

 

[droiduzr2]

I would think that those who do believe in God aren't so much going to along with Aliens existing so much, as one would think, that is.

I have seen that more Agnostics/Atheist's/non-believers of any sort look to the stars and wonder HOW another species ISN'T out there.

I mean, thousands of years ago people thought the earth was flat, when you get to the end, you fall off. Nothing is past that, I for one would have been one of the ones not just saying "oh well ok then, I guess I don't want to find out, so I will never look into myself" but "Well what does the end look like, and why does it just drop off?" Its things like that, that make me look at Man Kinds past and wonder how more people didn't question things they are told by others.

I am rambling like always in Religious threads...

I just think that if people would question things more without being biased, they would see alot of what they have been reading/told doesn't make the least bit of sense to a logical thinking person.

Right, by nature humans are explorers. We have been trained NOT to be.

It's my observation that is the point of "religion" to keep people from questioning things. Look at the final step of that process when you ask well prove that God exist, you are told to just believe. People need to be led and told what to do for the most part. A herd mentality.

Religion is also rooted in money/wealth.
There is a difference in being a spiritual person and a religious person. More people have died int he name of Religion yet, all religions claim to be peaceful. I guess their God is better than the other guy's so it's okay to kill the other guy because your God told you so.

To answer one of your points that you eluded to.
I think the reason so many of them will not debate with logic is due to the fact that their education is low and more importantly it would shatter their belief system essentially shattering who that person is because you have demonstrated their fundamental belief system by which they govern their lives with is false.
Who wants to be shown that their life is based on a lie/false information? You would have removed their sense of purpose.

Why are women excluded from positions of leadership of Religion, yet women follow along?

 

[droiduzr2]

I see no inherent Conflict between the belief in God, and the belief in life on other worlds.



You wouldn't unless God made himself known... which according to the Bible... he did.

I don't see how pondering this question is supposed to reveal something to those who believe in God though...

What color is God?
What gender is God?
What religion is God?
Why does God need money and material things?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Evolution??

btw- Do people that believe in a God also believe that Space Aliens exists?

God/Religion is a man made concept to keep control over other men/women. You had to keep the people in fear somehow so they would work for free and or pay taxes as well as not band together to overthrow the rulers.

Ponder this, if you and 10 other people were born on an island with no outside influences...how would you know about Religion/God.

I've never bought the "religion was created to control people" argument. The fact is that when Spanish explorers first set foot in the Americas, the native Americans greeted them as gods. Why would that be? What are the odds that two cultures completely separated by an ocean would both develop religion independently for the sole purpose of "controlling people" or "keeping people in fear". Studies of very early human sites have revealed evidence of religious beliefs (such as ceremonial sacrifices and/or burial rituals). Does a small band of early humans really need to "control people" and "keep people in fear?" There are uncontacted tribes wandering around in the jungles of South America right now. They practice religion. For whatever reason humans are definitely inclined to believe in some kind of a higher power. It's not a strictly man made institution.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I just think that if people would question things more without being biased, they would see alot of what they have been reading/told doesn't make the least bit of sense to a logical thinking person.

I've been accuse of being hyper rational more than once and it's probably a legit accusation. That being said, I've found that my religion answers many questions that logic doesn't and can't address.

Why am I here?
Why do I exist?
What is my purpose?
Is there anything else beyond this life?

These are some of the really, really big questions in life. I don't profess to have any solid answers for any of them and am extremely suspicious of those who do. That being said, I find religion (any religion for that matter) comes closer to answering or trying to answer these questions than science ever does.

 

[HalfFrozen]

I've been accuse of being hyper rational more than once and it's probably a legit accusation. That being said, I've found that my religion answers many questions that logic doesn't and can't address.

Why am I here?
Why do I exist?
What is my purpose?
Is there anything else beyond this life?

These are some of the really, really big questions in life. I don't profess to have any solid answers for any of them and am extremely suspicious of those who do. That being said, I find religion (any religion for that matter) comes closer to answering or trying to answer these questions than science ever does.

Sorry, but what questions does a Religion answer exactly?

Why am I here? More specific...
Why do I exist? I exist because I choose to exist...
What is my purpose? My purpose in life wasn't really any purpose for the first 20 years of my life until my beautiful Daughter was born. Now my purpose is providing for her, my wife and my son who is on the way.
Is there anything else beyond this life? No. Simple as that. You live, you laugh and you die.

 

[Big Pope Daddy]

What color is God?
What gender is God?
What religion is God?
Why does God need money and material things?

No one knows (and does it matter?)
The God of the Bible is listed as male (Father, He, His, etc)
None
He doesn't.

Many of these things are routinely brought up by non-believers, and yes, there has been MANY people who have utilized their "fame" and duped people out of money, etc, in the name of God. People do bad things, regardless of their belief.

I love the times it becomes so much easier to believe in the theories of science while saying one who believes in a Creator is thought of as either weak minded or lacking in self worth, etc. Alternate universes? God? Both are not able to be proven. But one the scientific community sees as very plausible, but the other is crazy talk. Why? I have no idea.

The very existence of humans screams at a creator. We can debate it as the God of the Bible, or whatever, but out of all the likely hood that we came into existence, it seems that a creator makes just as much sense as the rest of the theories out there. Nothing in science has shown that God does not exist...Hawking put it best when, unfortunately, he said we have gotten to a point in science we don't need God.

Without a creator, what makes right and wrong? Morals would simply be something we have made up....killing as right or wrong...well, it really comes down to we would just be the most advanced "accident" created, and we choose to live by rules we have simply made up. Rape, murder, stealing....what is really wrong?

Sin and our aversion to it seems to hold some water. We fall into it, but something in us tells us it is wrong. Morals do not evolve. If they do, why have they not with any other animal in nature. It is a huge hole in this theory.

For those in the belief that religion is a money/wealth thing, you, unfortunately, have not had an experience with Jesus Christ. I can tell you from personal experience God does not want my money. He does not need my money. He wants my love. It's a co-servant leadership relationship. And when one opts to serve rather than be served, lives can change.

I think this may be a good discussion!!!