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God?

Ever hear the expression "Your eyes are bigger then your stomach."? Well I have a new one. "Your mind is bigger then your brain." Don't over think things more then what they really are.

People didn't have answers for the sun going up and down and crops flourishing and dying, and thus, saying a person in the sky in a chariot or what have you was their answer. And that is fine.

Nowadays we do have the answers for those things. If you said you believed that the SUN itself is a god(which some still do) I would be more inclined to believe you and your 'stories'. But when you start telling me a 'story' of how only you and ONLY you had witnessed a "miracle" of 'god'(the one you cant see ;)) I wouldn't be so much inclined to believe anything you would say.

When a Christian or just ANY religious person says "Seeing is believing" I say "Yes it is, and when you do, let me and everyone else know!"

The problem is that now we can describe things like the changing seasons or the weather or whatever. We can describe them simply in scientific terms that everyone can understand. We've been able to explain the natural world on the level that everyone interacts with for hundreds of years now. (Obviously we don't know everything about the natural world, I speak only about the common phenomena everyone observes.) However, belief in God has not changed at all. Depending on which study you look at and how the question is phrased, 90-95% of the American public still believes in God.
 
The problem is that now we can describe things like the changing seasons or the weather or whatever. We can describe them simply in scientific terms that everyone can understand. We've been able to explain the natural world on the level that everyone interacts with for hundreds of years now. (Obviously we don't know everything about the natural world, I speak only about the common phenomena everyone observes.) However, belief in God has not changed at all. Depending on which study you look at and how the question is phrased, 90-95% of the American public still believes in God.

Last I heard, which was a few months ago, The Amount of 'known' atheists in America has risen to a whopping 17%. With probably double that in hiding. Why? Well because if they came out they could possibly be... not elected next election, not picked to participate in something, ridiculed by their peers and to some which is worst of all, be dis-owned by their family.

Being apart of a Religion in America is like being in 'that special club'.
 
Last I heard, which was a few months ago, The Amount of 'known' atheists in America has risen to a whopping 17%. With probably double that in hiding. Why? Well because if they came out they could possibly be... not elected next election, not picked to participate in something, ridiculed by their peers and to some which is worst of all, be dis-owned by their family.

Being apart of a Religion in America is like being in 'that special club'.

I've not seen an number that high except in surveys that lump the non-religious, atheists, agnostics and secular people all in one category. Obviously you can believe in god and still be secular and/or non-religious. Agnostics and atheists aren't the same at all either. The study I found in a quick search was a 2008 study that put atheists at 2%. Interestingly enough, the poll found that the older people are the less likely they are to be atheists. Now 14% of Americans in said poll said they were "without a religion", but that doesn't translate to atheism necessarily.
 
The Gods were here when this was a paradise. They were beings of far superior intelligence. They wanted servants. They gentically engineered beings "in their own image to serve". Some were engineers, constructors, designers, bakers, laborers, entertainers, etc. All with a purpose, all with a life "planned out for them". It is genetically bred into our minds to be what our ancestors from 1000's of years ago were genetically engineered to be. Pretty simple when you think about it.
Alomg come people who write stories, the stories get passed down, embelished, and finally changed and made into laws/ beliefs to suit those who can use it to rule in fear, and collect a tax at the same time.
 
The Gods were here when this was a paradise. They were beings of far superior intelligence. They wanted servants. They gentically engineered beings "in their own image to serve". Some were engineers, constructors, designers, bakers, laborers, entertainers, etc. All with a purpose, all with a life "planned out for them". It is genetically bred into our minds to be what our ancestors from 1000's of years ago were genetically engineered to be. Pretty simple when you think about it.
Alomg come people who write stories, the stories get passed down, embelished, and finally changed and made into laws/ beliefs to suit those who can use it to rule in fear, and collect a tax at the same time.

Wait - did you just say laws have nothing to do with The Gods?

Does that mean The Gods had no lawyers among them?

Yes, I am strange!

Perfectly within your rights.
 
The Gods were here when this was a paradise. They were beings of far superior intelligence. They wanted servants. They gentically engineered beings "in their own image to serve". Some were engineers, constructors, designers, bakers, laborers, entertainers, etc. All with a purpose, all with a life "planned out for them". It is genetically bred into our minds to be what our ancestors from 1000's of years ago were genetically engineered to be. Pretty simple when you think about it.
Alomg come people who write stories, the stories get passed down, embelished, and finally changed and made into laws/ beliefs to suit those who can use it to rule in fear, and collect a tax at the same time.

If this were true, you'd think there would be some archaeological proof of it.
 
I've not seen an number that high except in surveys that lump the non-religious, atheists, agnostics and secular people all in one category. Obviously you can believe in god and still be secular and/or non-religious. Agnostics and atheists aren't the same at all either. The study I found in a quick search was a 2008 study that put atheists at 2%. Interestingly enough, the poll found that the older people are the less likely they are to be atheists. Now 14% of Americans in said poll said they were "without a religion", but that doesn't translate to atheism necessarily.

I heard it on a Livecast video chat/deabte, maybe they got the numbers combined.

Just searched and found this...

A 2004 BBC poll showed the number of people in the US who don't believe in a god to be about 9%.[7] A 2008 Gallup poll showed that a smaller 6% of the US population believed that no god or universal spirit exists.[25] The 2001 ARIS report found that while 29.5 million U.S. Americans (14.1%) describe themselves as "without religion", only 902,000 (0.4%) positively claim to be atheist, with another 991,000 (0.5%) professing agnosticism.[26] The most recent ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, found in 2008, 34.2 million Americans (15.0%) claim no religion. Of which, 1.6% explicitly describe themselves as atheist or agnostic, double the previous 2001 ARIS survey figure. The highest occurrence of "nones", according to the 2008 ARIS report, reside in Vermont, with 34% surveyed.[27]
 
Did you know that way back in Aristotle's time... science and religion were incredibly similar?

Aristotle was a philosopher, yet also a scientist, and he tried to explain how the world worked. He based his science off of observation and "reason". The physics of Aristotle consisted of 5 elements: air, water, earth, fire, and aether. The 4 natural elements wanted to naturally reside in their natural resting place (earth at the bottom, water above earth, air above water, and fire in the atmosphere) and the 5th element was a divine substance that resided in the heavens with the celestial spheres and was pure.

What was motion described to be like back then? Natural motion was the natural motion of the elements. If an element was not in its "natural" resting place, it wanted to go to it (ex. this described anything made of earth, like a ball, naturally wanting to go down while fire naturally wants to go up). There's also the causality stuff but I won't go there.

This Aristotelian science was the norm for hundreds of years and was the basis of science until Newton came along and truly changed the face of science (and again by Einstein). If you were a scientist and challenged Aristotle's physics... then you were considered to be an outcast in the scientific community.

Why am I saying this? Well... science changes. Science is self-correcting in nature and "evolves" with new evidence. Religion on the other hand is permanent and never-changing. Catholicism never changes. Christianity never changes. Islam never changes. The only thing that changes is the emergence of new minority religions. It's a bit perplexing how something that was created over 2000 years ago, the Bible, to bring answers for people at that time is still "truth" to so many people.

Science has time and time again tried to explain things to people, like evolution, but there are so many people in this world that completely refuses to believe in something that has NEVER been disproven... all because of a book.
 
I'd say the fact that the Inquisition is gone is some evidence that religions change.

Oh well I'm not talking about groups of people or institutions. I'm talking about the actual belief system of the religions themselves. It's kind of like how many people truly believe that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth... or that Noah's arc truly happened, etc. etc.
 
Oh well I'm not talking about groups of people or institutions. I'm talking about the actual belief system of the religions themselves. It's kind of like how many people truly believe that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth... or that Noah's arc truly happened, etc. etc.

I think most Christians today understand that those are stories which were/are used to teach. It's highly possible that the stories are based around fact for instance perhaps a flood sparked the story of Noah and his ark but that is besides the point. The point is that at the time these books were written it was normal to teach through parables it's just the way it was done.
 
Oh well I'm not talking about groups of people or institutions. I'm talking about the actual belief system of the religions themselves. It's kind of like how many people truly believe that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth... or that Noah's arc truly happened, etc. etc.

In that case, it's not clear to me that Catholocism and Christianity needed to be identified separately in the previous post.

And fundamentalist thinking seems not confined to Christianity.

Not trying to nit-pick, just trying to understand.
 
To many post for me to read! But thanks to the moderators to making sure this thread doesn't get out of hand. Mostly all of the post I have read, have opened my eyes to other theories and opinions. Im mostly agnostic but I lean more towards atheism but good opinions I must say.
 
In my earlier post we talked about facts. So now here are some questions to consider in our quest to find the true TRUTH (whatever that is):

1. There must be at least 100 different religions out there, and each one claims that the other 99 are wrong. Why is that? (I gave up after i went thru about 5)

2. Why does god need a prophet? If s/he was truly omnipotent, a prophet would not be needed. S/he could talk to / reveal him/herself to all of us at any time. No "mystery of faith" needed.

3. Why is the New Testament written by people that lived at least 80 years after Christ's death? If Jesus/God was so smart, he would have had his own apostles documenting his life when they were alive. Just sayin'

4. And if you really want to test your faith, why does god hate amputees?

5. Oh, and one more for extra credit: why do the begats go back to Joseph?
 
Probably the thing that annoys me the most is when people say "God works in mysterious ways." or "It's God's will." Its like saying that it was fate for that to occur... which also implies that the concept of free will is all an illusion.
 
Probably the thing that annoys me the most is when people say "God works in mysterious ways." or "It's God's will." Its like saying that it was fate for that to occur... which also implies that the concept of free will is all an illusion.

I prefer to think in terms of what Trudy The Bag Lady (Lily Tomlin, in her performance) had to say -

Reality is a collective hunch.

For free will, see Spinoza, Dante, Pascal, Camus, Sartre, Sinatra et al.



(*) Cliff's Notes:

To be is to do - Camus
To do is to be - Sartre
Do be do be do - Sinatra
Do me an adobe - Joe Pueblo
 
Probably the thing that annoys me the most is when people say "God works in mysterious ways." or "It's God's will." Its like saying that it was fate for that to occur... which also implies that the concept of free will is all an illusion.

Real quick...

I've always had a problem when there's an airplane accident or something and a 6 year old boy survives and when they interview the mom she says, "God was watching over him".

The problem I have with that, is that surely she feels like it's a miracle that her son survived. But to say that God had a hand in keeping him alive is like saying he had a hand in killing the other 300 people on board the airplane. If he had the power to save one, why not all? Why not just place the plane on the ground and let everyone live?

And I'm not making a statement for or against God or Jesus Christ or any of that, I'm only talking about attributing things like this to God that make him out to be someone who picks sides. When the Packers won the Superbowl and the players were saying, "God made this happen"... why would God give you an unfair advantage against the Steelers? What does he have against them, he's aloud them to win many other Superbowls, why all of a sudden doesn't he like them?

Ok, I'll cut this off since I said 'real quick' in the beginning. ;)
 
Very good points.

Difficult to be thankful without true consideration for others.

This is why - perhaps - all intrigues into the mind of God, insomuch as the phrase itself has any meaning, is sacrilegious, insofar as that term has any meaning.

I believe Einstein once said that God created a universe where anything could happen and then got out of the way so that it could.
 
What if I'm a conscience floating around the universe and all of this... this planet, this couch I'm sitting on, this TV I'm typing this on, the galaxy I'm supposedly living in, all of you jokers... is all just a figment of my imagination? What if I just imagined all of this?

I can't prove anything else is REAL, I can barely prove that I am real. In fact I can't honestly say that I know for a fact that anything that I've ever done, or has every happened to me REALLY happened at all. All I really know is that what is going on at this very instant is real. This very moment, as I look around this room, I know is real. Everything else may have just been placed in my memory, or dreamed even. I could still be dreaming? How do I know I'm not some computer created A.I. they've been trying to perfect and I'm the first conscience ever created from software?

Well if this is all just a dream, I suppose I aught to head on down to the bank tomorrow and clean them out so I can drive a nice ass car in this here dream I'm having!
 
Chuang Tsu once awoke from dreaming he was a butterfly and then could not tell if he was a butterfly dreaming he was a man.

I would submit - Meat -

The correct version, as published in Omni, 1990.

THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT


"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

"Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

"No brain?"

"Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

"So ... what does the thinking?"

"You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

"Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

"Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

"We're supposed to talk to meat."

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

"That's it."

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."​
 
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