God?

[Big Pope Daddy]

Sorry, but what questions does a Religion answer exactly?

Why am I here? More specific...
Why do I exist? I exist because I choose to exist...
What is my purpose? My purpose in life wasn't really any purpose for the first 20 years of my life until my beautiful Daughter was born. Now my purpose is providing for her, my wife and my son who is on the way.
Is there anything else beyond this life? No. Simple as that. You live, you laugh and you die.

And that is your opinion. But, you are wrong on one point. You continue to exist because you or another has not chosen to end it, or another or yourself has not accidentally ended it. But, from what you have said, there is no real purpose. You have purpose for your family now, but that is just a decision, not a purpose. If you choose to leave, or they do, what makes any of it right or wrong?

Congrats on the family. Whether one believes in a creator, or does not, the joy a family can bring is the 2nd highest joy I could imagine.

 

[Njcellgeek74]

I don't think science can disprove God to those who believe any more than it can prove He does to those who don't. The biggest problem is Religion is based on Faith, something a a scientist cannot dissect, magnify or reproduce in a lab. As for a herd mentality, I don't.buy into that as there are exceptions. Not every person who seeks it is looking to simply belong somewhere. I agree it is a comfort to those who are suffering,dying, have lost someone or are just having a rough run. It's harsh to pull that away from another person. Also most of the laws in our society are based in Christian laws. Don't cheat, lie, steal, murder, etc. If we abandon God's laws do we then forfeit our laws based on His? It's a slippery slope. I am Christian but understand that other people don't believe and that's fine. I wonder why those who don't believe have the need to try to dissprove Him to those who do. It's a no-win scenario for both sides. Jmo.

 

[Big Pope Daddy]

Evolution??

btw- Do people that believe in a God also believe that Space Aliens exists?

God/Religion is a man made concept to keep control over other men/women. You had to keep the people in fear somehow so they would work for free and or pay taxes as well as not band together to overthrow the rulers.

Ponder this, if you and 10 other people were born on an island with no outside influences...how would you know about Religion/God.

No reason to say they do or do not. But science is more likely to believe in the latter without proof....

Answered that before. I think people who feel that it is a money thing have not known the true Creator.

Mission trips have shown this....the sheer existence of what we have screams of a creator...and many have said we have not know the name of the creator, but they knew there was one.

I often have to reign my brothers in Christ back when they attempt to use the Bible to prove their point to a non-believer....non-believers are not going to believe by showing them a book in which they do not believe the contents....just is an irrational way of doing it, if you ask me.

 

[byteware]

I really hate it when people try to put their responses inside MY quote.

How?

However, he chooses to... He's God for his sake... (not bad grammar... bad joke ).

The Bible indicates that he has used several means in the past (if you believe the Bible). Burning Bush (that's a shrub for those of you getting excited about possibly seeing GW ablaze on national TV) , talking Ass, Angels, direct revelation, blinding light...

You were born on an island, which doesn't have books.

I took that as a given. If you re-read what I wrote, you will see I was referring to the Bible indicating God's revealed himself to people in the past.

I wouldn't go that far.

You don't get to ask people what they believe, and then judge it based upon your beliefs.

If God exists, and the Bible is true, then he did. If God exists, then he absolutely has the power to reveal himself to those islanders in any manner of way he chooses.

If God doesn't exist, then obviously he wouldn't... but that wasn't the question you asked.

It is saying, without that 'holy book' and no outside contact with anything else,
you wouldn't believe in a 'god'.

As has already been stated, every culture ever found believes in a God of some sort. Do you really think that if we started a new one, they wouldn't believe in a God as well?

Ultimately, when you think about it, the question relates PERFECTLY to mankind of Earth...

That question misses two HUGE points.

1) Every culture ever discovered worshiped Gods.

and

2) We worshiped Gods long before we had Holy Books.

What color is God?

If God exists, and exists outside this dimension, then it is not reasonable to assume that color exists in that dimension, or light for that matter.

What gender is God?

If God exists, and exists outside this dimension, then it is not reasonable to assume that he HAS a gender.

What religion is God?

Well, that's just a ridiculous question.

Reminds me of a friend trying to debunk evolution by asking if it's possible for me to grow a tail.

Why does God need money and material things?

He doesn't. In the Old Testament, they were given as a SACRIFICE (burned) to God in worship of him.

As of the New Testament, the "Church" had more of a communal property situation, where everyone pretty much took care of each other.

 

[byteware]

I do want to say one thing about the conversation to you droiduzr2. I feel that you are being disrespectful. Considering that everyone is answering your questions as best they can, I find that just plain bad manners. If I'm wrong, and you are being honest in your questions, such as "What religion is God", then I apologize beforehand for any offense.

 

[Vihzel]

The very existence of humans screams at a creator. We can debate it as the God of the Bible, or whatever, but out of all the likely hood that we came into existence, it seems that a creator makes just as much sense as the rest of the theories out there. Nothing in science has shown that God does not exist...Hawking put it best when, unfortunately, he said we have gotten to a point in science we don't need God.

Umm... evolutionary biology? I don't understand how just because we are here, that proves that a creator exists. I don't understand that logic. It's like saying that if we happen to find intelligent life elsewhere far into the future and they have their own God, then that God must exist too... which would completely turn Christianity on its head. The Theory of Evolution (keep in mind that a theory in science is NOT your typical 'theory' as in 'guess') clearly supports the notion that all things evolved in one way or another and that there is the clear evolution of humans. This theory has never been disproven... for a reason. There are an infinite amount of evidence for support... whether it's from microevolutionary science (dealing with stuff such as bacteria, viruses, etc.) , macroevolutionary science, archaeology, genetics, and so forth.

Without a creator, what makes right and wrong? Morals would simply be something we have made up....killing as right or wrong...well, it really comes down to we would just be the most advanced "accident" created, and we choose to live by rules we have simply made up. Rape, murder, stealing....what is really wrong?

Society. There is a lot more than just religion that governs what's right and wrong. I am an agnostic and I would never rape, murder, steal. Morals are made up things by society to help keep society in check. In terms of functionalist theory, morals are there to help bring coherence to society and any deviation from it causes a disruption in society and that social deviance is corrected in order to keep the order in society. You should take a class in sociology. It will explain a lot for you and help you see the influential institutions of socialization.

For a country that the vast majority of people do not believe in God, the people did exceptionally well: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/japan.cultural.order/index.html?hpt=C2

Sin and our aversion to it seems to hold some water. We fall into it, but something in us tells us it is wrong. Morals do not evolve. If they do, why have they not with any other animal in nature. It is a huge hole in this theory.

I'm sorry... what?!? Morals do not evolve because they're "laws" created by humans. No one ever says that the Constitution evolved, even though it's been amended a lot. No other animals in nature have morals because they don't have the capacity to understand morals. This is one of the things that make humans worse than other species... we have morals and yet we still do terrible things to other humans and to animals. Animals do brutal things to each other but they do not have a sense of what's "morally right".

-------------------------------------------------------------

I highly recommend watching the NOVA videos:

Becoming Human Part 1
Becoming Human Part 2
Becoming Human Part 3
Becoming Human: Birth of Humanity
What Darwin Never Knew <----- especially this fantastic 2 hour episode
Alien From Earth
Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial

http://www.hulu.com/search?query=NOVA&st=0&fs=

 

[lunatic59]

No reason to say they do or do not. But science is more likely to believe in the latter without proof....

Not really. Science, and the application of its principles is more likely to keep an open mind about the theories on the existence of extraterrestrials in any form. Real science doesn't believe anything. It either knows, or knows that it doesn't know.

Answered that before. I think people who feel that it is a money thing have not known the true Creator.

I have found that those who proclaim to know the true creator to be equally mistaken. Religion isn't a statement of fact, it's an answer to a question. Humanity exists as an integrated society in part because we can communicate with each other and discover that which we do not know. One way is by asking questions and as part of our nature, a question demands an answer. When that answer is not forthcoming, the human psyche takes its knowledge and experience and extrapolates one that makes the most sense.

Religion attempts to answer many of the common universal questions and intelligent, sentient being might ask. And, because these similar questions are coming from random and seemingly disconnected sources, there is an implied coordination. Humanities' ego structure tends to look inward, rather than outward, hence the need for a benevolent deity rather than the baser environmental commonalities.

I am not saying that the answers religion provides are right or wrong, only that they provide answers. In fact it is as easily possible to arrive at the correct conclusion from many different avenues as well as arriving at an incorrect one.

Mission trips have shown this....the sheer existence of what we have screams of a creator...and many have said we have not know the name of the creator, but they knew there was one.

The parable of the gardener has been used for centuries to prove the existence of God (or, more to the point, disprove the non-existence of God). It is circular logic with no possibility of conclusion. The only thing our existence screams is that we exist. The concepts of purpose and destiny are the products of humanity.

I often have to reign my brothers in Christ back when they attempt to use the Bible to prove their point to a non-believer....non-believers are not going to believe by showing them a book in which they do not believe the contents....just is an irrational way of doing it, if you ask me.

There are many holy texts, some predating and some postdating the New Testament Canon and the Apocryphal Gospels

 

[A.Nonymous]

Sorry, but what questions does a Religion answer exactly?

Why am I here? More specific...
Why do I exist? I exist because I choose to exist...
What is my purpose? My purpose in life wasn't really any purpose for the first 20 years of my life until my beautiful Daughter was born. Now my purpose is providing for her, my wife and my son who is on the way.
Is there anything else beyond this life? No. Simple as that. You live, you laugh and you die.

Why am I here? Why do I exist in this moment of time on this particular rock out all the other moments in time and all the other rocks floating around in the universe. Why do I exist in this country instead of some random other country?

But you never made the decision to exist in the first place. Or did you? I don't remember ever making a decision that now I was going to exist when previously I did not. In fact the concept kind of boggles my little pea brain. You certainly choose to continue to exist since you could eat the barrel of a gun tomorrow and end your existence (unless an afterlife exists, but I won't go down that rabbit hole) but at what point did you make the decision to exist in the first place?

What if (god(s) forbid) something happened and your wife and your children died tomorrow? Would you no longer have a purpose to exist? Would your existence suddenly become meaningless? Was your existence completely meaningless for the first two decades of your life? Why did you continue a purposeless existence? or did you find some other sort of purpose for those two decades? I am single by choice and have no children. Do I have no purpose in life? Or is my purpose simply different than yours? Does everyone have different purposes in life? Or is there some vast purpose out there that applies to everyone?

Again, I don't claim to have all the answers here. I'm just saying that religion(s) come closer to answering these questions than simple empiricism. Not saying that empiricism doesn't have it's place.

 

[droiduzr2]

I've never bought the "religion was created to control people" argument. The fact is that when Spanish explorers first set foot in the Americas, the native Americans greeted them as gods. Why would that be? What are the odds that two cultures completely separated by an ocean would both develop religion independently for the sole purpose of "controlling people" or "keeping people in fear". Studies of very early human sites have revealed evidence of religious beliefs (such as ceremonial sacrifices and/or burial rituals). Does a small band of early humans really need to "control people" and "keep people in fear?" There are uncontacted tribes wandering around in the jungles of South America right now. They practice religion. For whatever reason humans are definitely inclined to believe in some kind of a higher power. It's not a strictly man made institution.

Seriously? You don't see how religion is used to control people.
Higher Power= Our primal instincts that are evolved. Why do you get a weird feeling seeing a child or your child get hurt? Why does something in most normal chemically balanced brains tell you that what is occurring is wrong and to stop it? It's a built in reflex just as your hands automatically extend when you are falling. It is for species preservation. I think you are confusing morality and spirituality with religion.

It it also innate that there will be Alphas hence they take the lead, that is nature in just about every species. Those leaders are there to keep the species alive and lead them to safety. Again, another built in mechanism Nature bestowed to ensure survival.

Humans are animals. We just have the ability to adapt faster to our environment. Sharks/Orcas are the apex predators of the Oceans, not us. How come?

When you are able to remove your ego and desire to be self importance you realize that ever single living thing on this planet including the planet itself has one thing in common...death.

If you need someone telling you how to live/think/do/feel then Religion fills that hole for you just as the person leading you that wants power and control.

Ever notice how each Religion likes to boast the biggest baddest most expensive Church's. Why don't they boast which one of them ended world hunger? Right, no money to be gained doing that.
Did you know the Catholic church as an example has enough money in their vaults in art alone to end world poverty? Did you know they are also within the top 10 of richest "companies"?

Religion gave man the excuse that it was okay to give children blankets laced with smallpox with the goal to exterminate their "kind".

 

[byteware]

Did you know the Catholic church as an example has enough money in their vaults in art alone to end world poverty? Did you know they are also within the top 10 of richest "companies"?

I don't generally respond to posts that are strictly anti-religion, because you aren't having a rational discussion so there's no point... but I think this point was rather funny.

You can't end world poverty with money... you can only make things more expensive. Which, of course, puts more of the world into poverty.

 

[droiduzr2]

This is the definitive answer as to why we exist or were created.
A sperm met and egg and evolution continued to well, evolve.

At the base of humanity we are just like every other animal on this planet. We try to seek food and shelter and to survive along the way we have sex and well another sperm meets an egg.

Not everyone will follow blindly. We are given a brain and as such we question things when they do not make sense.

What if we took the same principle of religion and applied it to law?
We will just charge you with a crime and hold a trial and tell everyone what is in this book of evidence is true and to believe and do not question and if they do they may be sitting in your seat (ahem, burning witches etc...).
Would you like that system?

 

[RiverOfIce]

Theist state that god cannot be explained, that god is beyond time and space , and that god has always been here since before time and always will be. But nothing could have existed before time.

No a theist says that at least one deity exists and tries to explain how that deity interacts with the world/universe. Only in extreme cases does the theist state that the God is omni.

As for the second question, let me just use the Arthur C. Clarke argument. In the Rama series, Clarke had a trans-universal traveling robotic society. The book hints that at the beginning of each universe the robots seeds the universe with building blocks of life, and as the life becomes space traveling, is collected by the robot species for protection. When the universe ends, the robots just jump out of the universe, and come back when the new universe is created.

There is very little difference between the Clarke model where the robots are God, and the collection at space travel is rapture.

So to answer your question, God exists in a different universe, when that universe ends, he/she/it moves to the next universe. Time is bound to space. Once the God moves from one universe to the other, time becomes pointless. In fact you could argue that "heaven" is simply a different universe. God could evolved into an omni species in that universe, and learned to control all the other universes.

When we create a new form of bacteria in a vial and control its environment, there is really no difference. To the bacteria, things just happen, what the hell? But to humans it is just us changing natural behavior by scientific principles. To one bacteria, a glucose maxtrix is the universe. To a small clam, the ocean is the universe. To humans, the universe is the universe. To God, the universe is really no more then a small glucose vial.

When you really look at it, anything is really possible, from just a scientific and physic point of view.

But remember "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence." -Dr. Carl Sagan

who created god?

Which God?

 

[droiduzr2]

Oh, I forgot this point.

Religion= emotional beliefs that is fluid and unstable.
Science= linear logical investigation of evidence to provide a definitive answer that can be reproduced through observation and trials.

In short, religion is based on FEELINGS where as science is based on absolute proof.

It is pointless to try to use LOGIC to debate with EMOTIONS.

 

[EarlyMon]

Oh, I forgot this point.

Religion= emotional beliefs that is fluid and unstable.
Science= linear logical investigation of evidence to provide a definitive answer that can be reproduced through observation and trials.

In short, religion is based on FEELINGS where as science is based on absolute proof.

It is pointless to try to use LOGIC to debate with EMOTIONS.

Several others before you in this thread have said essentially that same, simply using the word faith.

As for linearity in science and unstability in religion, history indicates that neither is as cut and dried as you've literally stated.

But - it seems you've gotten the general idea.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Oh, I forgot this point.

Religion= emotional beliefs that is fluid and unstable.
Science= linear logical investigation of evidence to provide a definitive answer that can be reproduced through observation and trials.

In short, religion is based on FEELINGS where as science is based on absolute proof.

It is pointless to try to use LOGIC to debate with EMOTIONS.

100% disagree.

Science can not and will not provide a definitive answer. Science can say this is what we know and this is how be can prove what we know. But science will never provide a definitive answer, because the more we look, the more we understand how little we know about anything.
But science is about what we know and can prove. There is nothing definitive about that. 100 years ago, science said that you could not travel the speed of sound. Was that a definitive answer?

Religion is a set of cultural values that creates a system of meaning, understanding, and social acceptable ideas/symbols for a group of humans. Religion for a lot of people have very little do to with feelings. For a lot of people, religion simply is a way to interact with other people that shares common ideas and symbols.

 

[droiduzr2]

100% disagree.

Science can not and will not provide a definitive answer. Science can say this is what we know and this is how be can prove what we know. But science will never provide a definitive answer, because the more we look, the more we understand how little we know about anything.
But science is about what we know and can prove. There is nothing definitive about that. 100 years ago, science said that you could not travel the speed of sound. Was that a definitive answer?

Religion is a set of cultural values that creates a system of meaning, understanding, and social acceptable ideas/symbols for a group of humans. Religion for a lot of people have very little do to with feelings. For a lot of people, religion simply is a way to interact with other people that shares common ideas and symbols.

I was not stating that Science can prove or disprove the existence of a God. That is absurd. You can not prove a negative.

Science is absolute. It evolves and they find new pieces that will help prove a future theory. Science is black and white, the gray is just what is missing for now so they call it the x factor. The goal of Science is to PROVE SYSTEMATICALLY AND REPEATEDLY that something is either true or false.

Science is like binary code or a light switch it's either on or off.
Yes, they run into gray areas (especially when they have to factor in morality i.e. to clone a human etc...). Mapping the human genome took a long time. I am sure they missed something that future TECHNOLOGY will reveal.

Science is good at being CRITICAL of itself to better evolve and become BETTER. Hey, take my word for it, run really fast off the roof of a 50 story building and spread your arms and you will coast over to the other building 25 stories down and 50 feet away. Just believe, have faith, God will get you there. You do believe don't you?

 

[droiduzr2]

Several others before you in this thread have said essentially that same, simply using the word faith.

As for linearity in science and unstability in religion, history indicates that neither is as cut and dried as you've literally stated.

But - it seems you've gotten the general idea.

Thanks Dad, now can you remove the infraction points God told you to give me.

Religion says money is the root of all evil, yet they perpetuate that evil by using money

*yes I know it says the the love of money or something like that but hey I just borrowed a page from the NRA and stopped the sentence and deleted the rest.

 

[droiduzr2]

100% disagree.

Science can not and will not provide a definitive answer. Science can say this is what we know and this is how be can prove what we know. But science will never provide a definitive answer, because the more we look, the more we understand how little we know about anything.
But science is about what we know and can prove. There is nothing definitive about that. 100 years ago, science said that you could not travel the speed of sound. Was that a definitive answer?

Religion is a set of cultural values that creates a system of meaning, understanding, and social acceptable ideas/symbols for a group of humans. Religion for a lot of people have very little do to with feelings. For a lot of people, religion simply is a way to interact with other people that shares common ideas and symbols.

Who said that?
See that is where EVOLUTION kicked in and they have learned to not state definitives to limit their possibility.
TECHNOLOGY has enabled SCIENCE and SCIENCE has enabled technology. SEE the EVOLUTION of to your point. One man said it can't be done and another "man" said sit there and watch and learn...i.e. The Wright Brothers.

* I will admit that Science should be tempered by humanity because sometimes doing the right thing is not always the right thing to do.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Seriously? You don't see how religion is used to control people.
Higher Power= Our primal instincts that are evolved. Why do you get a weird feeling seeing a child or your child get hurt? Why does something in most normal chemically balanced brains tell you that what is occurring is wrong and to stop it? It's a built in reflex just as your hands automatically extend when you are falling. It is for species preservation. I think you are confusing morality and spirituality with religion.

I'm not making my point clearly. You're arguing that all religion is bad just because some people use religion for evil purposes. I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

Early man was religious. Cultures that are completely isolated from other cultures are religious. There is something inside every man, woman and child that believes in some sort of higher power just by nature. Some people choose to reject that belief and that's fine and good, but the point is it's there. We have never, ever, ever come across a society that was atheistic.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Science is absolute.

My personal beliefs has nothing to do with this. But can you read what you just wrote. Let us break this down.

Science is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world.

Absolute something that is not dependent upon external conditions for existence or for its specific nature, size, etc.

How can science be absolute when it requires external conditions to exist? Science would not exist with out humans, because the knowledge it is organizing is human.

You could say physic is absolute, which means that it exist, like it or not.

You could say chemistry absolute, which means that it exist, like it or not.

But you can not say that your knowledge or understanding and how we organize them are absolute. That would be like saying that the god is absolute.

As for the rest, you are not proving anything by yelling it is just really hard to read and makes you less creditable.

 

[RiverOfIce]

We have never, ever, ever come across a society that was atheistic.

Well kind of. Religion is not to prove or disprove anything. Religion is a cultural tool. So if you have culture, means you will have this tool.

We have never came across societies that did not go to war, is war part of each and everyone of us?

The sum of the whole does not equal the sum of the part.

 

[Frisco]

Science seeks absolute knowledge, through tested theory, postulates, etc.

It seems to have come very close in many areas, those areas of science which have found exacting data and formulas and have spawned various technologies and medical, geological, building standards, etc for humanity.

But when a "god" discussion comes around, and science inevitably comes up as opposition to existence of a god, then we're talking about the sciences which are doing a lot more seeking than finding. So science and theism begin to appear to be on equal footing in such discussions in that particular arena.

 

[EarlyMon]

Thanks Dad, now can you remove the infraction points God told you to give me.

No, but thanks for asking.

Besides, maybe Satan told me to do it(*) - you've not gotten to Satan yet and yet there was your chance.

(*)Nah, not Satan, not God - Forum Rules are a Work by People.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Well kind of. Religion is not to prove or disprove anything. Religion is a cultural tool. So if you have culture, means you will have this tool.

We have never came across societies that did not go to war, is war part of each and everyone of us?

The sum of the whole does not equal the sum of the part.

Yes, I think war is. I think it's in our nature to compete with other humans. At it's most primal level that competition involves getting a blunt object and clubbing those who disagree with us over the head with it.

 

[HalfFrozen]

I'm not making my point clearly. You're arguing that all religion is bad just because some people use religion for evil purposes. I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

Early man was religious. Cultures that are completely isolated from other cultures are religious. There is something inside every man, woman and child that believes in some sort of higher power just by nature. Some people choose to reject that belief and that's fine and good, but the point is it's there. We have never, ever, ever come across a society that was atheistic.

Ever hear the expression "Your eyes are bigger then your stomach."? Well I have a new one. "Your mind is bigger then your brain." Don't over think things more then what they really are.

People didn't have answers for the sun going up and down and crops flourishing and dying, and thus, saying a person in the sky in a chariot or what have you was their answer. And that is fine.

Nowadays we do have the answers for those things. If you said you believed that the SUN itself is a god(which some still do) I would be more inclined to believe you and your 'stories'. But when you start telling me a 'story' of how only you and ONLY you had witnessed a "miracle" of 'god'(the one you cant see ) I wouldn't be so much inclined to believe anything you would say.

When a Christian or just ANY religious person says "Seeing is believing" I say "Yes it is, and when you do, let me and everyone else know!"