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Have you ever seen a ghost?

EarlyMon said:
I cannot prove that Elvis is not alive and well and partying on the moon Titan.

Has his grave been opened? Have the contents been validated by modern DNA?

There is therefore no empirical evidence to contradict that Elvis is not alive and partying in outer space.

I can only offer evidence that would suggest such a claim is not credible.

This is the fundamental issue skeptics have with claimants - they have it backwards.

The burden of proof is not on the skeptic - it is on the claimant.
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This is all irrelevant anyways...

The skeptics would never believe it even if Elvis showed up at their door! 10 times out of 10 they'd likely claim that they were hallucinating. LOL This is one of those entertaining issues where it's more fun to watch the single-minded responses...

I, for one, believe there's more to life than meets the eye. And I simply refuse to close my eyes to the possibilities. Others believe nothing more than what they see in front of them... or that they watch on TV or read in a magazine.

If anything it proves that we, as a species, suffer the same tunnel vision that we likely did a thousand years ago.
 
Martimus said:
This is all irrelevant anyways...

The skeptics would never believe it even if Elvis showed up at their door! 10 times out of 10 they'd likely claim that they were hallucinating. LOL This is one of those entertaining issues where it's more fun to watch the single-minded responses...

I, for one, believe there's more to life than meets the eye. And I simply refuse to close my eyes to the possibilities. Others believe nothing more than what they see in front of them... or that they watch on TV or read in a magazine.

If anything it proves that we, as a species, suffer the same tunnel vision that we likely did a thousand years ago.
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I'd respectfully submit that it wasn't the lack of faith in the extra-natural that was our biggest problem a thousand years ago - it was our belief in quite a bit too much of it.

BTW - there's a certain irony in how deeply you feel about what you're labeling a skeptic. Not criticizing, nothing personal - just saying as food for thought or discussion, your choice. :)
 
EarlyMon said:
I'd respectfully submit that it wasn't the lack of faith in the extra-natural that was our biggest problem a thousand years ago - it was our belief in quite a bit too much of it.

BTW - there's a certain irony in how deeply you feel about what you're labeling a skeptic. Not criticizing, nothing personal - just saying as food for thought or discussion, your choice. :)
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I see your point but I think my biggest challenge is trying to keep an open perspective when much of the world tends to find a more closed approach somewhat more comfortable. Know what I mean?

In the 15th century, while Columbus believed that he could find a trade route to the east, his crew is believed to have been fearful that the world was actually flat. Can anyone imagine what the world would have been like had his crew convinced him that the world was flat?

In the days of Nicolaus Copernicus, he theorized of heliocentrism where the earth orbited around the sun. People in that age followed the geocentric belief that the earth was the center of the universe. One can only imagine the challenges he must have faced with his controversial theory.

In the days of Leonardo Da Vinci, most of inventions were likely laughed at. Yet today we have helicopters and tanks and other things he only dreamed about 500 years ago.

The most awesome aspect of being human is that we can open our minds and conceive of the grandest of things. Sometimes they work and other times they don't. But with an open mind anything is possible!
 
Martimus said:
I see your point but I think my biggest challenge is trying to keep an open perspective when much of the world tends to find a more closed approach somewhat more comfortable. Know what I mean?

In the 15th century, while Columbus believed that he could find a trade route to the east, his crew is believed to have been fearful that the world was actually flat. Can anyone imagine what the world would have been like had his crew convinced him that the world was flat?

In the days of Nicolaus Copernicus, he theorized of heliocentrism where the earth orbited around the sun. People in that age followed the geocentric belief that the earth was the center of the universe. One can only imagine the challenges he must have faced with his controversial theory.

In the days of Leonardo Da Vinci, most of inventions were likely laughed at. Yet today we have helicopters and tanks and other things he only dreamed about 500 years ago.

The most awesome aspect of being human is that we can open our minds and conceive of the grandest of things. Sometimes they work and other times they don't. But with an open mind anything is possible!
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Actually, the belief that the world was flat was not as wide spread as what you say. What was past the edge of the explored world was what the problem was. Were there really giant sea monsters? Did you really fall off a cliff somewhere? Was there land? How far was it? Could you even carry enough supplies to safely get there? No one really knew for sure. It was a complete unknown.

You pointing to Copernicus is extremely ironic though I doubt you even realize it. Copernicus had scientific, empirical evidence for his theory. The Church had absolutely nothing. Copernicus did not argue that people should "keep an open mind" to his theory. He presented his empirical evidence and called for people to accept based on the fact that it was empirical, scientific and proven. He said, "The Earth orbits the Sun and here is the proof." Has anyone who believes in ghosts presented any empirical or scientific evidence for their theory? No.

It's not about having a closed mind or an open mind. It's about looking at the evidence, evaluating the evidence and drawing conclusions based on the evidence. If more evidence arises, then you repeat the process and possibly draw different conclusions based on the new evidence. That's how science works.
 
I demand that skeptics be open minded about the tooth fairy. There's two sides to every coin. Just because you haven't seen a tooth fairy doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
There is just as much evidence supporting the existence of the tooth fairy as their is supporting the existence of ghosts. I welcome any evidence of either.
 
Martimus said:
Not hardly! It's not a stretch at all. that's why they call it "Theoretical" physics. M-Theory is simply that... a theory. There is no proof that M-Theory is correct, nor is there proof that multiple dimensions exist. Theoretical physics is based on guesswork and mathematics. So extrapolating ghosts from M-Theory is no different than any other aspect of M-Theory. Until the theory is proven anything is possible... and everything is suspect. Oh and who said what we see are ghosts in that other dimension? Maybe what we see are people living in a parallel dimension or universe? Maybe what we see are ripples in the fabric of time?
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Even in theoretical physics have some goal to explain real world effect. My understanding of M-Theory is to try to unify the 4 fundamental forces of nature: strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electro-magnetic and gravity. There does not appear to be any study in M-Theory that is designed to explain paranormal activities or determine the existence of ghosts. It is still quite a stretch to use M-Theory to argue the possible existence of ghosts. You might as well refer to M-Theory to argue the existence of unicorns or fire breathing dragons.

Another analogy that I like is the theory of Black Holes... I'd love for anyone to show me empirical evidence of the existance of black holes. There's not an astro physicist alive who can do this. All they can provide are theories based on shadows observed in distant galaxies and data collected from radio telescopes. No human has ever witnessed a black hole. Astronomers believe the closest is about 1600 light years away but can only guess at it's presence due to high levels of X-Ray radiation in it's vicinity. Considering that a lightyear is roughly 6 trillion miles, there's an awful lot of space between the NRAO radio telescopes and that X-ray discharge...
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The black holes that are predicted in Einstein's theory of relativity has properties that can be observed. If these properties are observed, it lends more credibility that they exist. One such property of black holes that are predicted is that X-rays are emitted due to material that is falling into the black hole to heat up and emit radiation. When astronomers observe these X-ray sources near a star that can provide material to fall into a black hole, it lends credibility that a black hole may exist near the source of these X-ray sources.

As far as I know, M-Theory does not lead to any properties that can be observed that would increase the credibility that ghosts may exist. M-Theory does not lead to any property of the universe that can really be observed that is not already predicted by existing, well established theories. A theory that supports the existence of ghosts has to predict that ghosts exhibit some property that can possibly be observed before it is useful. If those properties are actually observed, it would lend credibility that ghosts may exist.
 
Martimus said:
I see your point but I think my biggest challenge is trying to keep an open perspective when much of the world tends to find a more closed approach somewhat more comfortable. Know what I mean?
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Yes, and there's one and only one cure for that condition. I prescribe immediate reading of -

Amazon.com: Ancient Engineers (9780345320292): L. Sprague De Camp: Books


The most awesome aspect of being human is that we can open our minds and conceive of the grandest of things. Sometimes they work and other times they don't. But with an open mind anything is possible!
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;)
 
Martimus said:
Too bad a tornado watch is not a prediction... Case in point... turn on the Weather channel. There's a 60% chance of rain in the area. That's not a prediction with 100% certainty... that's a shot in the dark based on data analysis, practical experience, and guesswork. I'm sorry but I did several years of meteorological training in my younger days. If we could predict weather with 100% certainty we'd have no need for weather forecasters.
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Maybe you missed The Weather Channel this past week. They have a Tor:Con index (tornado condition) developed by Dr. Greg Forbes. The index is ranked from 0 for near zero chance of a tornado or thunderstorm to a 10 which is a one hundred percent chance of a tornado. this past week the day before the tornado outbreak in the south which kill around 300 people, TWC issued a Tor:Con of 10. That is a prediction.

They predicted very dangerous storms, the general area they would be in and they predicted multiple tornadoes.

The reason we can't predict the weather better than we do is because the atmosphere is too large and we have too few sensors. Weather forecasters are not like tarot care readers, they use the science available to them to plot weather trends. The more data they have, the more accurate the prediction.
 
Weather is also a chaotic hydrodynamic system.

Predictive simulators for small-scale fluid flow, with convection, advection and heat-transfer, as we use for nuclear reactors, work very well - but consume a LOT of computing resources and take longer to calculate the predicted events than the events themselves actually take.

So, the science and math is _mostly_ there for this sort of thing in theory, and for small scale practices, but for stuff on a planetary scale? Not happening anytime soon. But that's a present technological limitation - nothing more.

And fwiw - the father of chaos theory was, in fact, a meteorologist.

Interesting fact - It wasn't until the models for Jupiter's atmosphere included chaos that the red spot was predicted in the simulations, and that was immediately and for the first time - giving chaos theory its big boost in the science biz.
 
We named our band after the ghost of a little girl who lives in our practice space. It's an old democratic club, kind of like a Moose Lodge type place. I've seen her once.
 
I wish i could see a ghost. I have always wanted to but i guess they don't want me to see them. :(
 
EarlyMon said:
Interesting fact - It wasn't until the models for Jupiter's atmosphere included chaos that the red spot was predicted in the simulations, and that was immediately and for the first time - giving chaos theory its big boost in the science biz.
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Studies to find the dynamics behind rogue waves in relatively calm seas did not succeed until they used quantum physics calculations in their computer models.
 
There were a whole bunch of ghost stories floating around my alma mater (Bethany College in Lindsborg, KS). Someone even said that the stories had been featured on some tv show about hauntings. However, I've googled "hauntings at Bethany College" & it hasn't come up w/ much. Also, the stories I've heard are kind of generic & can pretty much be applied anywhere. The stories:

1) A kid in my year told this story about his brother, who had graduated a few years before we got to Bethany. He was a student assistant @ the gym, & one night as he was cleaning up he heard music coming from the gym. He went to investigate, & saw a figure wearing a blue & gold basketball jersey hovering above the ground & shooting baskets w/ actual basketballs. The figure suddenly turned to the student & threw a ball @ him. It hit him & he threw the clipboard & papers he was holding & he ran out of the gym.

2) There was a railroad that cut through Bethany's campus. The story goes that a little girl & her dog were playing around the tracks. A train was approaching, & the girl ran onto the tracks to move her dog. The train hit & killed the little girl. Ever since, students will sometimes hear a train whistle blowing, a dog barking & a girl crying on the tracks, even though no trains pass through on those tracks anymore. (I never heard whistles, the dog or girl in the 4 years I was there)

3) The ghost of Alma Swensson (wife of the first president of Bethany College) is said to haunt the dormitory named after her (Alma Swensson Hall). I can't even remember all the stories surrounding ASH. One of them, though, is that students have heard hard shoes pacing the concrete basement floor. The laundry room is in the basement. One time I was down there, & I heard hard high heels on the cement outside the laundry room. I ran to the door & looked into the hallway & didn't see anyone there.

4) The Bethany library is said to have been built on top of an old cemetary, & there were several stories of odd happenings surrounding the library. I DID see a ghost there. One evening my literature class was having a discussion group in one of the classrooms in the library. Myself & 3 of my friends in the class were at this group, but we had to leave early because we had to be at a sorority event that night. When it was time for us to leave, we grabbed our books & bags & went out into the main basement room to put our things together so we didn't disturb the class. As we were packing our books away, the ground started shaking. A yellow gaseous figure ran past us & knocked books off the stack as the figure ran by. The four of us FREAKED OUT & ran back into the classroom. Our professor & classmates looked annoyed @ the ruckus we were making. We asked them if they felt the ground shake & they had no idea what we were talking about. We tentatively went back to the main room, clinging onto one another, & we saw that the books were all back on the shelves like nothing had happened.

I can only account for what my friends & I saw. All the other stories & legends, I'm not so sure about just because I would think there would be something floating around on the net about them. If anything, there should be something about the so-called segment on a TV show.

I saw this a few years ago: YouTube - Urban Legends Series: Ghosts

I don't really believe any of it, but it sure freaked me the heck out.
 
Vihzel said:
I wonder how religious people can say there's no such thing as ghosts...
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Actually as a Christian, I firmly believe there are ghost. And not just the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Supernatural, because quite frankly there are things that can't be explained.

EVP (aka White Noise), apparition, I mean that stuff is not made up. You go to the haunted places that people talk about, and you'll walk away with the hairs on the back of your neck sticking straight up.
 
Pretty sure I haven't seen a ghost. But I have a relative (by marriage) that swears my dead father was inhabitting her automatic air freshener for a few weeks.
 
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