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Hawaii Challenged to Produce Statehood Certificate

wiretap said:
Without a delivery doctor's signature, it is not the original. Yes, it is an official Hawaii certificate of live birth, but not the original birth certificate. There is a difference between the two.

Also, you may want to look at what a real 1961 Hawaii birth certificate looks like. ;)
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Is this just a parlour debate over this document?

Do you honestly believe that the intelligence and defense communities were so elated that they had a ultra liberal Democrat boss that they just wore lampshades and tossed a big cocktail party?

Do you honestly believe that they did no diligence on this?

Do you think their processes stop at signatures?

This dog-eat-dog political climate sickens me, it really does. Are we a nation of law and due process or are we simply a group of thugs bent to believe that accusation and allegation equals fact?
 
wiretap said:
Without a delivery doctor's signature, it is not the original. Yes, it is an official Hawaii certificate of live birth, but not the original birth certificate. There is a difference between the two.

Also, you may want to look at what a real 1961 Hawaii birth certificate looks like. ;)
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Politifact compared it against one... care to provide a link to one that looks different?

Or a link to a law that states that a certificate of live birth requires a doctor's signature?

And Just FYI, your original is kept in the records of the State. You never EVER get that one. Otherwise, if you lost it, you couldn't be President.
 
EarlyMon said:
Is this just a parlour debate over this document?

Do you honestly believe that the intelligence and defense communities were so elated that they had a ultra liberal Democrat boss that they just wore lampshades and tossed a big cocktail party?

Do you honestly believe that they did no diligence on this?

Do you think their processes stop at signatures?

This dog-eat-dog political climate sickens me, it really does. Are we a nation of law and due process or are we simply a group of thugs bent to believe that accusation and allegation equals fact?
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agreed.

The collusion between govt agencies and employees that would have to have happened for a man born outside of the US to become president would be virtually impossible. Sometimes I'm ashamed to be an American. Is it stupidity, racism or a combination of both?
 
I guess byteware did a good job of dispelling the racism thing, although I originally thought the same thing.

Thinking about what he said, I think it's more coincidental than causal. Racists may be prone to believe this stuff, but not everyone believing this is racist.

I find it some kind of political insanity. Stupidity? Maybe - or maybe more like mob rule where this is like, no higher thought function possible because of the dynamics.
 
wiretap said:
Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates
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Ummm, I take it that you've never had to go get your birth certificate from the Department of Health?

They don't give you the original... ever.

They print you a copy. The first one you receive is a copy. The original is kept on file with the Department of Health. You never, ever, have the original.

If you lose the one they first gave you, then they print you a new one, on the current form. You can't go to the Department of Health, and get a Birth Certificate in the original form from 50 years ago...

This isn't that hard to figure out man, if you just thought about it a little bit.

Don't search until you find the smallest thing that MIGHT support your belief. Search for the truth. Look at both sides of an issue. It makes quite a bit of difference.

EarlyMon said:
I guess byteware did a good job of dispelling the racism thing, although I originally thought the same thing.
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Thank you.

EarlyMon said:
Thinking about what he said, I think it's more coincidental than causal. Racists may be prone to believe this stuff, but not everyone believing this is racist.
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Very true. Racists are absolutely going to believe every bad thing that is said, but not everyone who believes it is racist.

EarlyMon said:
I find it some kind of political insanity. Stupidity? Maybe - or maybe more like mob rule where this is like, no higher thought function possible because of the dynamics.
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Willful ignorance. They choose to be ignorant because it suits their predetermined beliefs.
 
I can't believe there are Americans who believe that Obama is not an American-born citizen STILL. It's been how long since he's been in office? If he was NOT an American-born citizen, wouldn't it have been proven already? America would sure look stupid in front of the whole world if we accidentally elected a "foreigner" to the highest position in the US accidentally.

No one takes "birthers" seriously... for a VERY good reason.
 
I agree with everyone that the argument is ridiculous. I hadn't cared enough about it to really look into it or do any research, so this thread has been helpful in that regard. The "Obama is a Muslim" argument is equally tired.

Like byteware, I'm also tired of being labeled a racist simply because I differ in my views and beliefs compared to Obama. One can have a difference of opinion without hating other views or those that express them. I personally welcome the views and opinions of others because they provide an avenue to gain more complete knowledge in a particular subject. With that said, I fall into the limited government side of the argument, and simply cannot agree with Obama or any who share his views.

"Life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness" ...seems like people on the left always leave out the "pursuit" part.
 
byteware said:
Ummm, I take it that you've never had to go get your birth certificate from the Department of Health?

They don't give you the original... ever.

They print you a copy. The first one you receive is a copy. The original is kept on file with the Department of Health. You never, ever, have the original.

If you lose the one they first gave you, then they print you a new one, on the current form. You can't go to the Department of Health, and get a Birth Certificate in the original form from 50 years ago...

This isn't that hard to figure out man, if you just thought about it a little bit.

Don't search until you find the smallest thing that MIGHT support your belief. Search for the truth. Look at both sides of an issue. It makes quite a bit of difference.
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I had to get my original for my job in the nuclear industry. A copy, reprint, or COLB was not acceptable.
 
I'd be in trouble if I ever tried to run for president. My birth certificate doesn't have the name of the woman who gave birth to me anywhere on it. The mother listed became my mother (legally and officially, anyway) when I was 12, and the father listed is someone she didn't even meet until I was around 7. Conspiracy nuts would have a field day with that, especially since it looked like a 1985 Nebraska birth certificate, not a 1973 one. ;)

And even the birth certificate from before the adoption only had my birth mother's name, with no father listed. They'd all be screaming "Test tube baby!" Of course, given their way of thinking... maybe I could just convince them it was an immaculate conception... hmm.
 
lunameow said:
I'd be in trouble if I ever tried to run for president. My birth certificate doesn't have the name of the woman who gave birth to me anywhere on it. The mother listed became my mother (legally and officially, anyway) when I was 12, and the father listed is someone she didn't even meet until I was around 7. Conspiracy nuts would have a field day with that, especially since it looked like a 1985 Nebraska birth certificate, not a 1973 one. ;)

And even the birth certificate from before the adoption only had my birth mother's name, with no father listed. They'd all be screaming "Test tube baby!" Of course, given their way of thinking... maybe I could just convince them it was an immaculate conception... hmm.
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Well, obviously, you were born in Kenya. Oily Taitz says so! :D
 
wiretap said:
I had to get my original for my job in the nuclear industry. A copy, reprint, or COLB was not acceptable.
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There is only one original, what you had to get was AN original from the Department of Health. They printed you a copy.

What, do you think they went and found your original and gave it to you?

You aren't thinking this through at all.
 
byteware said:
There is only one original, what you had to get was AN original from the Department of Health. They printed you a copy.

What, do you think they went and found your original and gave it to you?

You aren't thinking this through at all.
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What you get is an official copy from the state. In my case (born in Ohio) that meant a copy with with an official embossed stamp on it. So yes you don't get the original but wiretap is correct in the sense that a copy from say Kinko's without the stamp often will not do.
 
byteware said:
There is only one original, what you had to get was AN original from the Department of Health. They printed you a copy.

What, do you think they went and found your original and gave it to you?

You aren't thinking this through at all.
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No. I had to get my original, then take it back to them.
 
cjr72 said:
What you get is an official copy from the state. In my case (born in Ohio) that meant a copy with with an official embossed stamp on it. So yes you don't get the original but wiretap is correct in the sense that a copy from say Kinko's without the stamp often will not do.
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No one's argued that a copy without the stamp would do. What's been argued is that when you request your certificate, they print you a new one on current forms. They don't give you the original.
 
Obama has fulfilled his required documents to the appropriate source,otherwise he would not have been approved to run for office.Apparently some people have nothing better to do than to play stupid,meaningless games.People can doubt all they want but it doesn't change the facts,enough said.
 
byteware said:
Your experience is that you neither have, nor can provide the original.

What you provide is your official copy. Sorry, but that's just the fact of the matter.
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Uh, no. I had to go get my original and then bring it back to them.
 
Has there ever been a president that has more hype than Obummer? It makes Bush look good and his second term sucked.
 
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