Help hero vs moment?

[Adrift]

As I noted in the Battery Quirk thread I have gotten nearly 90 hours from my battery on a single charge before. I also listed all apps I had installed. No openhome, if that matters.

With my heavy daily use I can still easily get 14-16 hours before seeing <15%.

But perhaps I have an exceptional battery....

 

[dbpaddler]

okay, I tried to get this thread back on topic. guess that didn't work.

 

[CriticalCritic]

okay, I tried to get this thread back on topic. guess that didn't work.

But more and more little things keep popping up that make me second guess it [Moment] as a business oriented device. The most glaring being battery life.

The battery subject is on topic. Your fork in the topic actually. This is about Moment VS Hero, and your accusation that the Moment is less of a business oriented device when compared to the Hero. Without taking into consideration (and still failing to acknowledge) whether your particular circumstance is one pertaining to the battery or the battery meter or a bad app.

Meaning that you deliberately made a completely off base comparison between the two phones, and you knew that... or you have a faulty phone, in which case you should swap it out... or you're running troublesome apps, which you may likely not be running on your Hero (no point in using open home on the Hero to make it look like a Hero right?).

Now, still staying on topic, can you distinguish which problem you are having, and therefore which solution would apply to you? OR if you are just knowingly making an apples vs oranges comparison? Everyone here is just trying to clarify that your comparison is either misguided or inaccurate/unfair, again, completely on topic.

 

[dbpaddler]

1. My battery comments were strictly my own rant and in no way related to the comparison of the Hero and the Moment. I never once compared the battery life between the Moment and the Hero. You're the one that seems to want to tie it in somehow and maintain the topic. Even your responses do nothing to tie it in to the Hero vs Moment topic. You just seem overly interested in my issue and obviously like typing at great length.

2. My on topic part of the post was about the lack of email capability and how Sense addressed it giving functionality most smartphone users are accustomed to without having to resort to turning one's gmail account into a giant funnel.

 

[CriticalCritic]

2. My on topic part of the post was about the lack of email capability and how Sense addressed it giving functionality most smartphone users are accustomed to without having to resort to turning one's gmail account into a giant funnel.

Ok cool. So have you tried setting up your email accounts through the email function thing? I'm not totally sure what it is, it's not exactly an app, but that icon with the envelope with the @ symbol that compiles everything.

I have 5 different email accounts from 4 different services listed and accessible right there, one touch away. Each one checks at 30min intervals and notifies me in the bar when something new comes up (though I do find the notifications are not consistent).

What is it that the Hero does so differently?

 

[Adrift]

Ok cool. So have you tried setting up your email accounts through the email function thing? I'm not totally sure what it is, it's not exactly an app, but that icon with the envelope with the @ symbol that compiles everything.

I have 5 different email accounts from 4 different services listed and accessible right there, one touch away. Each one checks at 30min intervals and notifies me in the bar when something new comes up (though I do find the notifications are not consistent).

What is it that the Hero does so differently?

I do the same. I was unaware the Hero does it any different.

 

[dbpaddler]

to adrift and critic. learn to read. adrift I'll give the benefit of the doubt to, but critic had some warped sense of tunnel vision and completely ignored the gist of post 241. And that is you can't make use of your folders in email outside of gmail and moxier. You can't move mail from your inbox to spam or any of your saved folders. Same limitation as the blackberry, but was no problem in Palm, Win Mobile, Symbian and I believe webOS. But thanks for sharing how your email is set up. Since it seems to matter, I have Moxier running my work's Exchange account with the general email app running a separate work adr and two personal adrs with varying poll times of 30 minutes to two hours.

and don't get too technical on me here. these new fangled machines with their bright screens and fancy buttons are confusing enough.

Ok cool. So have you tried setting up your email accounts through the email function thing? I'm not totally sure what it is, it's not exactly an app, but that icon with the envelope with the @ symbol that compiles everything. What is it that the Hero does so differently?

 

[CriticalCritic]

And that is you can't make use of your folders in email outside of gmail and moxier. You can't move mail from your inbox to spam or any of your saved folders.

Ah I see. I've never had the need to swap stuff between my folders because I set filters on my inbox. And I agree, if the need arises (I refuse to utilize the less efficient method of using the browser, and I cannot wait until I reach a computer) and it was a must for me to do it at that moment, then I would wish that I could use the less efficient method of manually moving my mail around to different folders within the app itself.
I'm sorry, you are right Hero>Moment on that issue. Assuming that filters do not exist, it would be a pain. Chalk 1 up for you. I didn't do my homework on your previously mentioned issue, congrats there buddy

 

[dbpaddler]

now we can all relax and have a beer. Anyone else peeved that the Droid already got it's first firmware update, and a pretty intensive one as well. We just have promises of one....grrrr.

I don't deal with filters. The one account just gets such a wide variety of mail, I'm not sure what I'm doing with it. The work one has various folders based on which company it's from and there's really no way of knowing ahead of time to even set up a filter. And then spam still manages to find it's way through and having to either just delete it, wait till I get to a pc, or use aol or yahoo through the browser is just a pain.

and back on topic, I think there's a bit more to Sense than just some UI fluff and you don't realize it until you've used the Hero extensively and then moved on to vanilla android. While I just pointed out one, there are others that I've forgotten, but it'd be nice if HTC had a breakout of what Sense upgrades. Some of the little things just might add up to make enough of a difference. And if HTC can make a snapdragon slider phone that's the same size as the Hero, I'm in. I don't believe Samsung will really wow with their gen 2 hardware for Android.

 

[Adrift]

I see no need for hostility. What is the point of getting frustrated at myself or another user, it is going to change nothing about how the phone works. It is definently not going to make one understand better your point of view. In fact, it is going to hinder that, as you are altering the way others view you and how they interact with you.

You can my statement how you like. I would prefer you, dbpaddler, to leave that (hostility) for other forums. It is not needed here.

Back on topic:

I suppose I don't have a need for moving emails from folder-to-folder, which would be the reason such a shortcoming, I was not aware of.

 

[dbpaddler]

No hostility. You chimed in on something when you didn't even know what the question was. So it wasn't directed towards you and I mentioned as much.. I spelled the difference out in a previous post. It was ignored for an off topic discussion that critic wouldn't let go which was my source of frustration. you both ended up giving your two cents when you didn't even know the point I had originally made.

All is fine and good, and your post at this point simply isn't needed. If we had our preferences, I'd prefer you not comment on something until you actually know what the question or issue is instead of piggybacking on someone elses misinformed post. so can we move past this whole little mishap?

The point of it all was and still remains that HTC Sense is a lot more than some UI fluff and to just dismiss it as such is wrong. HTC would definitely benefit by having some sort of info page spelling out the difference betweeb Sense and stock Android. Little things like improved email functionality and browser improvements start to add up to a better overall phone experience.

I see no need for hostility. What is the point of getting frustrated at myself or another user, it is going to change nothing about how the phone works. It is definently not going to make one understand better your point of view. In fact, it is going to hinder that, as you are altering the way others view you and how they interact with you.

You can my statement how you like. I would prefer you, dbpaddler, to leave that (hostility) for other forums. It is not needed here.

Back on topic:

I suppose I don't have a need for moving emails from folder-to-folder, which would be the reason such a shortcoming, I was not aware of.

 

[Adrift]

I'm surprised there isn't a third party party app, with similar email functionality. Maybe someone should make one, lol.

And to square things up, I had stated in my previous post, I was unaware of the Hero/Sense ability in this matter. A better approach would have been to have either directed me to your previous post or to have explained said functionality to me, instead of telling me I need to learn to read. We could have avoided this whole thing, had this happened.

 

[dbpaddler]

I think I mentioned the post # in my post. No bigggie. I had used the hero for almost a month before getting the moment so after a few weeks I was getting annoyed at some of the little things I could no longer do. Email was one of the bigger things. I'm more surprised that the ability to move email isn't built in. It's just another thing that shows android is a 2nd rate "smartphone" OS. Especially when they give their own email app the functionality at the expense of everyone elses email. I see it as more of a shady way to drive people to gmail. Just like they screwed palm users out of OTA ativesyncing with gmail. You shouldn't have to rely on 3rd parties for basic smartphone functionality.

 

[numus]

I think I mentioned the post # in my post. No bigggie. I had used the hero for almost a month before getting the moment so after a few weeks I was getting annoyed at some of the little things I could no longer do. Email was one of the bigger things. I'm more surprised that the ability to move email isn't built in. It's just another thing that shows android is a 2nd rate "smartphone" OS. Especially when they give their own email app the functionality at the expense of everyone elses email. I see it as more of a shady way to drive people to gmail. Just like they screwed palm users out of OTA ativesyncing with gmail. You shouldn't have to rely on 3rd parties for basic smartphone functionality.

Have to realize.. the thing you think you shouldn't have to do is why Android is an amazing OS.. You can replace everything in it.. You don't like the stock dialer? Get a new one.. You don't liek the stock SMS.. Get a new one...
With Blackberry, Iphone and other OS for smartphones you are stuck with their tech, their support, and their timeframe for updates to problems...
The OS for moment is called Vanilla for a reason.. it is plain and simple.. base OS and you can change any of the programs to customize it for yourself...

 

[dbpaddler]

When I see comments like this, it's usually from people that haven't really owned smartphones before and have no clue as to what their capabilities have been over the years. Many 3rd party developers including the larger players in the game don't even make programs for Android (like Iambic). They do however make programs for the other mobile operating systems (BB, win mobile, iPhone, and Palm even). Customization was one of the key features of moving towards a smartphone. In fact Palm OS was customizing with 3rd party software on PDA's probably longer than you've been using a mobile phone.

3rd party development is a poor excuse for the lack of "basic" functionality. Having to customize a phone to have functionality that's been basic in many smartphones for years isn't an "amazing" thing. And the more 3rd party software you have to bog down a phone with to bring it up to the speed of it's competition just increases the chance for potential problems. Might not work right on this phone or that phone. Not prepared for the newest firmware release. An update creates more bugs than it fixes and so on. Basic functionality is something you need to RELY upon on a daily basis and should be inherent to the OS, not relied upon by a 3rd party vendor.

If you search through threads on the various android forums you'll see many people don't agree with you. These people are generally ones that are prior smartphone owners and they miss the basic functionality they've been accustomed to. If you're coming from a dumbphone you just don't have the right perspective because a smartphone OS is just all new and wonderful, especially a fancy touchscreen one with widgets and such.

Maybe it's something that you don't get and HTC does which is why they've built in certain functionality like better email, better browsing experiences, built in local syncing and so on.

 

[numus]

When I see comments like this, it's usually from people that haven't really owned smartphones before and have no clue as to what their capabilities have been over the years. Many 3rd party developers including the larger players in the game don't even make programs for Android (like Iambic). They do however make programs for the other mobile operating systems (BB, win mobile, iPhone, and Palm even). Customization was one of the key features of moving towards a smartphone. In fact Palm OS was customizing with 3rd party software on PDA's probably longer than you've been using a mobile phone.

3rd party development is a poor excuse for the lack of "basic" functionality. Having to customize a phone to have functionality that's been basic in many smartphones for years isn't an "amazing" thing. And the more 3rd party software you have to bog down a phone with to bring it up to the speed of it's competition just increases the chance for potential problems. Might not work right on this phone or that phone. Not prepared for the newest firmware release. An update creates more bugs than it fixes and so on. Basic functionality is something you need to RELY upon on a daily basis and should be inherent to the OS, not relied upon by a 3rd party vendor.

If you search through threads on the various android forums you'll see many people don't agree with you. These people are generally ones that are prior smartphone owners and they miss the basic functionality they've been accustomed to. If you're coming from a dumbphone you just don't have the right perspective because a smartphone OS is just all new and wonderful, especially a fancy touchscreen one with widgets and such.

Maybe it's something that you don't get and HTC does which is why they've built in certain functionality like better email, better browsing experiences, built in local syncing and so on.

Hmm i have come from a BB curve, Moto Q, Dell Axim x51v (currently running winmo 6.5).. Hell i even had an Ericsson R380...
Maybe you like it to be idiot proof out of the box, but i switched from a blackberry to a phone that i could mess around with and modify to customize it to what i want.. And that is exactly what Android has allowed me to do.. WinMo is highly restrictive to what you can do with the phone, Blackberry is the same way.. Palm's new OS is intreging but i do not like the pre nor the pixi, so android was the only option left that allowed me to make the phone exactly what i wanted..

 

[dbpaddler]

so you've never seen the many many programs for these OS's? And I'm talking PalmOS, not webOS. WinMob and Palm OS had 3rd party email and PIM replacement programs. I believe Palm even had 3rd party SMS programs though I never used them. It didn't mean they skimped on out of the box basic functionality.

I'm all for customizing, but again...basic, this is the keyword here, functionality should not come at the expense of the ability to customize. Why would I want to load programs I shouldn't have to? Why should I have to have workarounds or rely on 3rd parties to develop programs and functionality that should have been included as part of the base OS?

Contacts, Calender, Email, Notes, and Tasks were the strong core of a smartphone. Those things should not have to rely on 3rd parties to be completely functional. Plain and simple. Has nothing to do with being idiot proof. Has to do with why it's a smartphone in the first place. It's become diluted with the likes of the iphone and continued with the Pre and Android. The iphone might've kicked phone mfg's in the butt, but now they've overlooked the basics to try and match and one up the glitz of the iPhone.

 

[numus]

so you've never seen the many many programs for these OS's? And I'm talking PalmOS, not webOS. WinMob and Palm OS had 3rd party email and PIM replacement programs. I believe Palm even had 3rd party SMS programs though I never used them. It didn't mean they skimped on out of the box basic functionality.

I'm all for customizing, but again...basic, this is the keyword here, functionality should not come at the expense of the ability to customize. Why would I want to load programs I shouldn't have to? Why should I have to have workarounds or rely on 3rd parties to develop programs and functionality that should have been included as part of the base OS?

Contacts, Calender, Email, Notes, and Tasks were the strong core of a smartphone. Those things should not have to rely on 3rd parties to be completely functional. Plain and simple. Has nothing to do with being idiot proof. Has to do with why it's a smartphone in the first place. It's become diluted with the likes of the iphone and continued with the Pre and Android. The iphone might've kicked phone mfg's in the butt, but now they've overlooked the basics to try and match and one up the glitz of the iPhone.

Difference between Iphone, webOS, blackberry and Android is
Iphone - Apple has to approve the application to be allowed to run it (with the exception of jailbreaking)
webOS - Not positive if it can install unauthorized apps from the web (friend has pre, will check with him later)
Blackberry - Can install any application via the web or in the market place (market place is limited but ability to download anything in the proper format on the web makes up for it) but can't replace most key programs
Android - can install any application via the web or market place but can replace almost any key program (such as dialer, sms, e-mail, etc.)
WinMo - depends on 5.0, 6.1 and 6.5... Running 6.5 on dell axim x51v so no idea about a market place but can install any program via the web... A lot of compatibility problems i have seen tho with experimenting...

 

[dbpaddler]

webOS has been rooted and there are a lot of homebrew apps for it.

and we're talking about two different things. My point has nothing to do with the ability to freely customize and apps having to be authorized.

This is the point, nothing more, nothing less:

Contacts, Calender, Email, Notes, and Tasks were the strong core of a smartphone. Those things should not have to rely on 3rd parties to be completely functional. Plain and simple.

When you give your own email app functionality and give the rest a watered down version it's pretty much lame regardless of the fact I might have the ability down the road to get that functionality if someone happens to develop an app for it. Becomes more lame if it's a paid app. Just like being able to sync notes. Should be out of the box standard.

You do realize that a marketplace is not the only place to get apps for BB, WinMob and WebOS? You do realize companies like Agendus, Pocket Informant and the likes have done PIM, Email and dialers for the above phones? That's just one company off the top of my head. There are more. None of the three mentioned above are limited to their respective market. And there's quite a lot of people out there that don't really care about having 5000 apps available for their phone. This is also my point that this method of thinking is at the expense of reducing the functionality that makes a smartphone smart. The shifting of responsibility away from the ones who actually make the phone. Though I guess that just shows the ways of society have trickled down to cell phones

 

[dkjones96]

WinMo - depends on 5.0, 6.1 and 6.5... Running 6.5 on dell axim x51v so no idea about a market place but can install any program via the web... A lot of compatibility problems i have seen tho with experimenting...

I ran WinMo 5. It has horrible compatibility issues. I hated everything about that OS. There simply is no comparison to WinMo 5 to Androind 1.5, it blows it out of the water.

That phone was SUPPOSED to get an upgrade to WinMo 6 but Motorola released the Q9c and forgot about it even though they had the same exact hardware inside.

 

[Lucylove]

Maybe this will make this back ON topic. :O)

Okay, I bought the Moment first... Samsung had made me happy for two years with the Instinct (turn by turn voice directions, vocal GPS searching, WAAY ahead of its time, considering) and gave it two weeks. While I can't remember everything I didn't like about it to go into specifics, I can remember a few big distinctions I found on the Moment.

I found that I ran out of icon storage room quickly on the Moment (even with file folders; 3 screens vs. 7 really DOES make a difference, to me at least). I'm also a bit of an app and game junkie. I can get lots of stretches of down time at work so I like having games or newspapers, etc to fill the time. I also found that most things I wanted to accomplish required excessive keystrokes or long wait times. Looking up a contact, calling, camera (the flash was one reason I didn't want the Hero at first, but it didn't seem to be that spectacular) etc... the dedicated call button helps loads, imo.

Another reason I was drawn to the Moment first was the trackpad feature. I found myself rarely reaching for it. So it ended up not being so important. Now that I have a trackball (something I thought I wouldn't be that fond of) I find it more prominent in my browsing and going through scroll lists; like I am able to be a bit more precise than the trackpad. Not a big thing, but something I noticed.

I'm a girl, and prefer to pocket my phone.. didn't mind the size of the Instinct I owned previously, but this Moment is HUGE. It felt cumbersome, and something about the size and shape of it made me feel like I was gonna drop it. The Hero was in my FRONT jean pocket last night and I kept panicking thinking I left it somewhere since it was so comfortable. That's a good thing.

The keyboard felt funny and the spacebar seemed to take serious force (I'm more of a nails texter) so I couldn't quite get a flow, even though I was used to its location after a few days of texting, I'd hit it and it wouldn't respond w/out slowing down and hitting it what I felt was excessively harder than the rest of the keys.

The touch screen works fab on the Hero and I find that when I have it turned in landscape mode I can FLY on it since the auto-correct is fairly smart about 90 percent of the time. The few it misses takes a second to notice and repair, but waaay more than makes up for that with the speed that I can type, full of mistakes, yet corrected.

I REALLY missed the ability to search via voice (available on my Instinct from two years previously, why would anyone still not offer this, especially going from Samsung to Samsung? The Microsoft Live Search was my favorite part of my Instinct). So when I went to my Moment, I really didn't enjoy how many keystrokes it took to look something up, considering I'm usually driving when trying to find something. This function returns via Google Search (albeit in a different form) which was a huge sore absence from my Moment. I'm happy to have a voice search on my Hero so now while I'm driving, I only need a few glances and can keep my eyes on the road!

The proximity sensor was a huge reason I wanted the Moment. I found it more annoying than helpful (I thought for sure I needed it since I was notoriously Muting people on my Instinct), though since when I needed to listen to an automated system and pull up a keypad, the lag on the screen coming back on was so bad that I frequently had the menu think I wasn't there and it would move on or backtrack, both not great since automated systems are already annoying!! Not having one on the Hero worried me after reading the forums but I find I haven't had an issue yet.

Other than that I find a lot of similarities, but I do love my Hero far more than I ever did the Moment. I'm very happy I made the switch. Hope this helps those of you still wondering which to get.

Jessie

 

[dbpaddler]

Actually you're making a horrible comparison. One, you can't compare an old version of winmob to Android 1.5. 5 hasn't been current for quite awhile considering 6.5 is out and 6.0 has been out for a bit. You're also comparing a completely aged Q running a watered down version of winmob without a touchscreen. So yes, it should blow it out of the water, but it shouldn't be a comparison in the first place. Compare it to the TP2, Imagio, Pure or Cruise for a fairer comparison. So wish HTC made a slider android phone.

I ran WinMo 5. It has horrible compatibility issues. I hated everything about that OS. There simply is no comparison to WinMo 5 to Androind 1.5, it blows it out of the water.

That phone was SUPPOSED to get an upgrade to WinMo 6 but Motorola released the Q9c and forgot about it even though they had the same exact hardware inside.

 

[dbpaddler]

Jessie, did you miss the Nuance Voice Control on the Moment? It's the right side button above the camera button. Call, Send (Text, Picture, Video, Email), Lookup Name, Goto Menu...

It's funny. Had two people at work start off with the Hero and are now on the Moment. One because she just couldn't stand the on screen keyboard and used it for about a week.

I'll admit the Moment is bulky and Sense has some nice features to it. I just like the extra snappiness and real keyboard. Haven't had the spacebar issue you've experienced, but then again, my nails are rather short Enjoy the Hero. It's why we have a choice.

 

[Lucylove]

Jessie, did you miss the Nuance Voice Control on the Moment? It's the right side button above the camera button. Call, Send (Text, Picture, Video, Email), Lookup Name, Goto Menu...

It's funny. Had two people at work start off with the Hero and are now on the Moment. One because she just couldn't stand the on screen keyboard and used it for about a week.

I'll admit the Moment is bulky and Sense has some nice features to it. I just like the extra snappiness and real keyboard. Haven't had the spacebar issue you've experienced, but then again, my nails are rather short Enjoy the Hero. It's why we have a choice.

Hehe.. exactly! The girl thing I think has a little bit, since the Hero is so sleek and not so bulky, it already scores that way. I was used to a virtual keyboard thanks to the Instinct so the real one I thought I'd fly on, just didn't fit my hands right when slid open, for some reason.

The nuance is the same as the Sprint Voice service my Instinct had (button in almost the same spot).. it was another thing that lagged so badly it was frustrating!! I used that frequently also (Call Brian mobile) or (Check Status, etc) but what I'm talking about that was sorely missed is where I can search for "coffee" or "pizza" vocally and GPS let's me know what's nearby. Awesome for road trips when I'm in unfamiliar territory and really crave a Starbucks Macchiato but have no idea what exit will have one. Driving doesn't help you having to type it in, so only the Hero (and Instinct) has the speak-in feature.

Regarding the transition from Moment to Hero.. That's exactly why I got the Moment!! I read about a lot of that going on. I was lurking in these forums for about 2 months before buying my Android phone. It was really hard to choose. I bought my husband the Hero for Christmas (mostly so we could tell the difference in our phones) and as soon I gave him his (after I had my Moment for about 5 days) I was envious. Especially when it was in hand. (Sprint store with the bulky alarm straps on the back never gave me the idea of how different they were by feel). I asked him if he had his battery in yet it was so light!!

Ironically, I was buying the Moment at Best Buy (can't beat the 80 bux in freebie bundles they give you, cases, car chargers, just for asking) and the guy was trying to convince me to get the Hero... but I figured I'd get to try them both this way.

Lovin' the Android Market, either way!

 

[dbpaddler]

ahh.... some of the voice searching you can do in sprint nav with a few button presses. Most of the stuff I do on the move I have shortcuts for so it's minimal button presses.

Overall I'm not too picky with gen 1 devices. It's what's coming next year that'll have me picking it apart. Could only stand so much of the virtual keyboard. I better see a slider phone no bigger than the Hero come next year. Having both phones though, I wish you could easily hot swap them at will via the website without occurring charges. Give a little bit of the gsm taste to us cdma owners. I probably would use the Hero once in awhile.