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Malaysia Airlines tragedies

I wish so many lives weren't involved, but this is becoming the most spectacular mystery in my lifetime (perhaps because so many lives are involved.)
 
Whenever people talk about flying under another plane for cover, I can't help but think of:
down-periscope-movie-poster-3684.jpg
 
A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet

What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed.
 
China finds no terror link to its nationals on jet

Checks into the background of the Chinese citizens on board the missing Malaysia Airlines jetliner have uncovered no links to terrorism, the Chinese ambassador in Kuala Lumpur said Tuesday.

The remarks will dampen speculation that Uighur Muslim separatists in far western Xinjiang province might have been involved with the disappearance of the Boeing 777 and its 239 passengers and crew early on March 8.
 
With probably over 300 mobile phones on board, most of which may have been smartphones, if the flight had landed at least one of these phones would have been picked up on GPS or been able to send a text. So like everybody else I hope this flight is found safe and sound the evidence would indicate otherwise.
 
With probably over 300 mobile phones on board, most of which may have been smartphones, if the flight had landed at least one of these phones would have been picked up on GPS or been able to send a text. So like everybody else I hope this flight is found safe and sound the evidence would indicate otherwise.

That assumes the passengers were alive/conscious when they landed.
 
OK course, its just one of many theories. If the flight was in the air for 10 hours most smartphones (certainly iPhones) batteries would be dead anyway.
 
OK course, its just one of many theories. If the flight was in the air for 10 hours most smartphones (certainly iPhones) batteries would be dead anyway.

Unused? Not necessarily. And for almost 10 hours? I thought the plane on had 7 hours of fuel.
 
That assumes the passengers were alive/conscious when they landed.

I feel like if the aircraft had made a proper landing (i.e. it wasn't a crash), someone would have had to have been concious/alive (unless it was like the autopilot in this movie, another one of comedic value more than anything :rofl: )
 
My money is on the plane landing safely on some ignored island [...]

With a 5000ft+ runway suitable for a 777 landing? Not too many of those to search.

Reprogramming the FMC, while plausible, seems unlikely. An entire sequence of INS steerpoints would have to be entered, including both vector and altitude data.
 
True but if this was a plot and a working team for all we know this flight landed at a place and may be without fuel to move and a scared staff to move it .
 
if the plane was gliding it's fuel burn rate would not be as great.

True, but it's range would be significantly reduced. No thrust from the engines = no lift = inevitable descent of a heavier-than-air object. Plus, restarting two large high-bypass turbofans isn't an instant operation, regaining altitude uses additional fuel, and fuel consumption increases the lower an aircraft flies.

So no, gliding wouldn't extend the flight duration.
 
Here's another theory: A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet | Autopia | Wired.com

It suggests that there was some type of electrical fire that disabled the communication systems. The crew was overcome by smoke and the plane eventually ended up flying for hours until the fuel ran out.

I have a hard time buying that an electrical fire knocked out the systems, but the plane kept flying for hours after the crew were incapacitated by smoke. Perhaps someone with more knowledge about planes can explain if it is possible for a plane to remain airborn without a pilot and presumably with the autopilot disengaged. I would think that if the communications systems were knocked out, that the autopilot would be as well.

I recall that in 1998, a fire caused a plane to crash off Peggy's Cove. In that incident, the crew had time to signal for help and find a place to land. Due to instrument failure, the plane eventually crashed with someone still at the controls. Although it was a different plane, I don't see a 777 remaining in the air without a crew if something was capable of knocking out the communications.
 
Theory: The same CIA guy who shot JFK, hijacked the plane and sold it to aliens.
 
Here's another theory: A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet | Autopia | Wired.com

It suggests that there was some type of electrical fire that disabled the communication systems. The crew was overcome by smoke and the plane eventually ended up flying for hours until the fuel ran out.

I have a hard time buying that an electrical fire knocked out the systems, but the plane kept flying for hours after the crew were incapacitated by smoke. Perhaps someone with more knowledge about planes can explain if it is possible for a plane to remain airborn without a pilot and presumably with the autopilot disengaged. I would think that if the communications systems were knocked out, that the autopilot would be as well.

Yep, it's not unreasonable that autopilot got knocked out at some point in the hazards scenarios.

The Wired author is a general aviation pilot so I'm going to use other pilots to address your central question.


Another pilot had the idea on March 14th and gave an overview of what he saw as possible -

http://www.askthepilot.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-370/

The scenario is difficult and not impossible. In conjunction with any number of other errors, it's reasonable.

http://androidforums.com/lounge/834250-malaysia-airlines-tragedy-6.html#post6486235

And here's the view of a third pilot, who wrote a book about the Air France disaster, supporting a similar theory from another point of view -

http://androidforums.com/lounge/834250-malaysia-airlines-tragedy-6.html#post6487353

So, add today's Wired opinion from a general aviation pilot to those from two different commercial airline pilots and what you get is three pilots saying, essentially -

Some sort of known faults, separately or in combination, could be responsible.

And absent other data, are reasonable theories.
 
EM, you linked an article relative to the 777 fly by wire system that would explain the erratic flight behavior in the absence of autopilot or a real pilot at the controls. I'm no avionics expert, so maybe I misunderstood, but it seems that it said the plane would veer left and right due to lift on the wingtips but the plane would correct for these before they became catastrophic to the plane maintaining lift. Same principles in regards to elevation and airspeed. So the erratic characteristics of the flight described in some press accounts are potentially explained some catastrophic failure affecting both the autopilot and the human pilots.

I'd try to quote the links, but you have linked so many articles I'm having trouble finding which one. The article, though relative to flight 370, was more and explanation of how the 777 would react with no one manning the controls.

Did I read that right?
 
True, but it's range would be significantly reduced. No thrust from the engines = no lift = inevitable descent of a heavier-than-air object. Plus, restarting two large high-bypass turbofans isn't an instant operation, regaining altitude uses additional fuel, and fuel consumption increases the lower an aircraft flies.

So no, gliding wouldn't extend the flight duration.
Not true, if all engines were not running.
 
Not true, if all engines were not running.
But if one of the engines is running then it's not gliding...

And if you meant "if none of the engines was running" then Slug's points stand: it can't glide too far without losing a lot of altitude, followed by the fuel cost of restarting the engines and regaining height.
 
EM, you linked an article relative to the 777 fly by wire system that would explain the erratic flight behavior in the absence of autopilot or a real pilot at the controls. I'm no avionics expert, so maybe I misunderstood, but it seems that it said the plane would veer left and right due to lift on the wingtips but the plane would correct for these before they became catastrophic to the plane maintaining lift. Same principles in regards to elevation and airspeed. So the erratic characteristics of the flight described in some press accounts are potentially explained some catastrophic failure affecting both the autopilot and the human pilots.

I'd try to quote the links, but you have linked so many articles I'm having trouble finding which one. The article, though relative to flight 370, was more and explanation of how the 777 would react with no one manning the controls.

Did I read that right?

Almost exactly.

The differentials in port/starboard lift could - for example - have been caused by turbulence and automatic pitch compensation could correct that. (Because differential pitch is roll.)

The article you're referring to is -

Pilot: Was that Boeing 777 diverted deliberately? Not necessarily - CNN.com

Not true, if all engines were not running.

I think you need to tell us what "gliding" is in your earlier question then.

It usually means all engines off.

If you mean something like to coast with the engines idling, like a car, then you're likely going to reduce range.

The general operational altitudes of around 35k and thereabouts are chosen because that's the region where these particular jet engines show the greatest efficiency - least fuel consumed for greatest distance flown.

As soon as you "coast" you're going to induce drag rather than thrust from the engines, lose altitude, and have to regain it at a higher power cost - and power means fuel.

Exactly what Slug outlined less the on/off fuel price you'd have to pay.

You probably get more out of tailwinds for fuel efficiency than anything you can do with the engines, generally speaking.

One flight I used to take over the Pacific regularly was rated at 12 hours - it always took 13 hours in one direction, 11 hours in the other, due to a prevailing air current at the normal altitude.

And when you say - "all engines were not running" - there are two engines here and the plane flies with differential thrust.

The power from the two engines doesn't have to be equal - and often is not.

In that way, you can maintain a heading without having to rely on exclusively on flight control surfaces - and any time you use those, you increase drag.

So, if you're flying on one engine, one side is going to get pushed much harder than the other side because X amount of thrust is always greater than zero.

In that scenario, you're going to either corkscrew into the ground or you're going to have to make it up by deflecting the control surfaces to keep any sort of course at all.

At that point, you're more than likely going to lose a lot more than you'd gain in fuel efficiency by killing an engine.

In short, you'd be yawwing the airplane and that's a high-drag situation.

709px-Yaw_Axis_Corrected.svg.png


Here's a picture of what I mean by yawwing -

f0184-05.gif


You're flying in one direction but aerodynamic forces are not letting the air vehicle point in that direction.

PS - nod to Hadron who ninja'd me on the gliding thing.
 
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