eraursls1984
Android Expert
Does it work for that, it never did for me neither did real hdmi
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(moved posts) Is it ok to put out wireless tether info?
- Thread starter Metfanant
- Start date
Does it work for that, it never did for me neither did real hdmi
Electrasol
Lurker
I started to take on the habit to watching online videos and streaming music (storage cloud) from my Amazon account which in turn uses a lot of data (I hit a little over 15 gigs once). The bloody app came with the phone when I bought it last year.
You make a point (tom108) that doing so goes against your contract but I'm (we're) at the stage that our warranty is void with the fact that our phones are rooted.
Also, the 2gb limit (I hate that word) for 20 bucks a month is a complete ripoff.
Friends,
We've moved this topic here: http://androidforums.com/suggestion...ed-posts-ok-put-out-wireless-tether-info.html
Until a mod merges this into that, please take the convo there. ty.
We've moved this topic here: http://androidforums.com/suggestion...ed-posts-ok-put-out-wireless-tether-info.html
Until a mod merges this into that, please take the convo there. ty.
Electrasol
Lurker
Skimmed through that thread and why is it in the suggestions sub forum??
"Pay the $20"
"Example: Have a $1 access charge incurred once per day that wifi tether is used (100MB daily limit)."
Haha yea...no.
Went from paying 30 extra USD a month (Env Touch tether) 5 gig limit.
Not going back to that.
Good question..
It's there because this topic has been very controversial, here, and personalities got involved, similar to the above, so the mods moved it. It also has been a forum wide issue, which is another reason it got moved.
Steven
It's there because this topic has been very controversial, here, and personalities got involved, similar to the above, so the mods moved it. It also has been a forum wide issue, which is another reason it got moved.
Steven
eraursls1984
Android Expert
Voiding the warranty is not illegal or punishable by law, breaking contract is
Electrasol
Lurker
Yes but...If Verizon offered an unlimited data plan for their wifi tether (at a very reasonable price) I would be more than happy to pay for it.
Currently they do not. You should of seen the shock on my face when I realized that Verizon doesn't offer unlimited plans for their mifi devices.
@Wallyworld, I'm not trolling. I was a bit steamed on how some posters (that defended wireless tethering) were treated and it showed a bit on my first post.
I apologize again. I hope I'm not apologizing too much lol.
Wally World
Android Expert
I have heard this from sooo many people who pirate and steal. If only the price of cd's were cheaper. If only the cost of DVD's were cheaper.....
It's kind of humorous that this issue (morality or legality of tethering) hasn't been much of an issue until these rumors (official or not) started that Verizon would soon be able to detect that you're tethering and nail you for it. Up until now, these forums have been open towards the suggestions of how to tether with your phone. Why must we suddenly deem that inappropriate for these forums?
I agree with whomever said it prior in this thread; Verizon shot their own damn self in the foot by labeling their data plan as "unlimited". For most ISP's, your connection is unlimited. It doesn't matter what medium is being used to consume the data. I would be willing to bed that many of those on the Verizon network don't realize that "unlimited" isn't exactly unlimited like the word's definition would suggest, just the same as many don't know what root is let alone how to do it. As others have mentioned, Verizon reps themselves have suggested PDAnet. Won't that be a fun argument if something were to happen to adults who would use the program at the suggestion of a Verizon rep and later get a nice tethering charge on their bill for it and nastygram from Verizon?
I agree with whomever said it prior in this thread; Verizon shot their own damn self in the foot by labeling their data plan as "unlimited". For most ISP's, your connection is unlimited. It doesn't matter what medium is being used to consume the data. I would be willing to bed that many of those on the Verizon network don't realize that "unlimited" isn't exactly unlimited like the word's definition would suggest, just the same as many don't know what root is let alone how to do it. As others have mentioned, Verizon reps themselves have suggested PDAnet. Won't that be a fun argument if something were to happen to adults who would use the program at the suggestion of a Verizon rep and later get a nice tethering charge on their bill for it and nastygram from Verizon?
Electrasol
Lurker
I should of left my opinions on the threads already made for this kind of topic but I was a bit steamed at how some members here pounced on a poor guy who defended wireless tethering.
There's even a sticky that forbids this kind of rude behavior on new people.
yawdapaah
Android Expert
That's really sad to see. The DX forum has never been a place to be afraid of posting your opinion. There's no reason this kind of behavior. I you're not interested in the topic, don't go in, read the posts and reply. It's not that hard.
Arguments and discussions are part of life. You'll have to argue you point, in a civil matter, in any industry. Learn to do it without getting your knickers in a twist
.Just one tip buddy; you're welcome to post you're opinions. But there are already several threads on that matter. Too many threads on the same topic...
Wally World
Android Expert
Yup, you know Verizon charges for it yet you use it for free.
F
faber78
Guest
i find myself with these thoughts as all this has gone on and on:
- if i want anyones opinion/approval on what i chose to do ill ask for it (especially when it doesnt effect you directly....and i mean directly....dont give me that "your ruining it for me" crap. (it sounds like a little cry baby....).
- if you arent a lawyer whom has studied the "laws" of breaking contract; you are blowing hot air.
as far as the forum is concerned, that decision needs to be made by the owner and mods; not by a bunch of bickering, know it all, loud mouth members. thats what the owner/mods are for.
if the forum decides to allow the directions to wireless tether: then shut up when someone asks how, its not your decision to allow or not allow that info to be given here.
if the forum decides not to allow it, then a simple "we dont discuss that subject here, per forum rules" will work just fine.
---------------------------------
as far as my opinion on this, the only thing i know is that since this crap started i have gotten sick real quick of:
- the know it all, this is how it is crap
- the fact that this subject has brought a lot of lurkers out to post: then people just bash their opinions.
- the gb and no wireless tether is the only way crap
- the same people commenting on the subject over and over, as if the thought is that if they keep arguing they are right....or will bury the just as valid opinions of those who chose to only make a single comment on the subject
- the going after people who's opinions vary....life is full of different opinions and concerns and they arent always gonna be the same as yours; get over it.
- the bickering
- the legal/illegal talk from people who have no clue, or who have a brothers sisters dogs friend that is a lawyer
- the over all change in mentality
- and most important the seeming to suddenly take The Lords name in vain all the time
i find myself getting back on when im bored as i used to enjoy coming here, anymore i cant even stand being on out of boredom, let alone want to stay on or comment.
if the intention was to send a wave through the root community, it has been successful.
its almost pathetic how big an impact this has had on a group of people that normally go out of their way to help each other out.
i personally will continue tethering and could not give a rats a$$ what anyone thinks about it. i find that i should state how and the way i tether and show that im not doing this or that (example: some of the extremes people do)....but really, its none of your damn business.
now someone can pick this post apart....but again; i really dont care what anyone else thinks about what i chose to think/do....i respect others opinions/thoughts about what they chose to do and you're just gonna have to deal with me doing what i chose to do.
- if i want anyones opinion/approval on what i chose to do ill ask for it (especially when it doesnt effect you directly....and i mean directly....dont give me that "your ruining it for me" crap. (it sounds like a little cry baby....).
- if you arent a lawyer whom has studied the "laws" of breaking contract; you are blowing hot air.
as far as the forum is concerned, that decision needs to be made by the owner and mods; not by a bunch of bickering, know it all, loud mouth members. thats what the owner/mods are for.
if the forum decides to allow the directions to wireless tether: then shut up when someone asks how, its not your decision to allow or not allow that info to be given here.
if the forum decides not to allow it, then a simple "we dont discuss that subject here, per forum rules" will work just fine.
---------------------------------
as far as my opinion on this, the only thing i know is that since this crap started i have gotten sick real quick of:
- the know it all, this is how it is crap
- the fact that this subject has brought a lot of lurkers out to post: then people just bash their opinions.
- the gb and no wireless tether is the only way crap
- the same people commenting on the subject over and over, as if the thought is that if they keep arguing they are right....or will bury the just as valid opinions of those who chose to only make a single comment on the subject
- the going after people who's opinions vary....life is full of different opinions and concerns and they arent always gonna be the same as yours; get over it.
- the bickering
- the legal/illegal talk from people who have no clue, or who have a brothers sisters dogs friend that is a lawyer
- the over all change in mentality
- and most important the seeming to suddenly take The Lords name in vain all the time
i find myself getting back on when im bored as i used to enjoy coming here, anymore i cant even stand being on out of boredom, let alone want to stay on or comment.
if the intention was to send a wave through the root community, it has been successful.
its almost pathetic how big an impact this has had on a group of people that normally go out of their way to help each other out.
i personally will continue tethering and could not give a rats a$$ what anyone thinks about it. i find that i should state how and the way i tether and show that im not doing this or that (example: some of the extremes people do)....but really, its none of your damn business.
now someone can pick this post apart....but again; i really dont care what anyone else thinks about what i chose to think/do....i respect others opinions/thoughts about what they chose to do and you're just gonna have to deal with me doing what i chose to do.
Please remember everyone - attack the message, not the messengers.
Attack the issue, not each other.
Thank you.
Attack the issue, not each other.
Thank you.
Has anybody brought up how this applies to Visual Voicemail?
Doesn't VZW charge to use their Visual Voicemail while Google Voice allows for the same service free of charge? Seems like a similar case, and a side of this issue that nobody seems to be bringing up.
The best case, IMO, Verizon can make is that a monthly charge is required to use THEIR '3g mobile hotspot' app, and hacking said app would be illegal. This applies especially to those of us using plans from the pre-tethering era (I have an Alltel plan with unlimited data).
Using another app that's readily available in Google's official market shouldn't be illegal - if it were, then you'd think Verizon would take steps to block access to it. (are they??)
I just don't think people should treat this like it's totally black and white. Using a patch/hack to use Verizon's own paid tethering app isn't the same as downloading a free app from the market under the assumption that stuff available in the market is legal (Wifi Tether for Root Users has a short disclaimer, but it's after the 'read more' break at the very end - so most users probably never even read it).
Doesn't VZW charge to use their Visual Voicemail while Google Voice allows for the same service free of charge? Seems like a similar case, and a side of this issue that nobody seems to be bringing up.
The best case, IMO, Verizon can make is that a monthly charge is required to use THEIR '3g mobile hotspot' app, and hacking said app would be illegal. This applies especially to those of us using plans from the pre-tethering era (I have an Alltel plan with unlimited data).
Using another app that's readily available in Google's official market shouldn't be illegal - if it were, then you'd think Verizon would take steps to block access to it. (are they??)
I just don't think people should treat this like it's totally black and white. Using a patch/hack to use Verizon's own paid tethering app isn't the same as downloading a free app from the market under the assumption that stuff available in the market is legal (Wifi Tether for Root Users has a short disclaimer, but it's after the 'read more' break at the very end - so most users probably never even read it).
And this would be a misdemeanor or a felony?
ballisticn8
Android Expert
He has no clue that it would be either one. A theft of services would be like stealing cable via a black box when you dont pay for cable service, or stealing power from the power company when you arent paying for power. Its still a breach of contract issue because by using wireless tether you have broken your terms of service agreement with verizon. If Verizon wants to do anything they can cancel your contract and charge you for your usage.
You pay for cell phone services. You pay for said data plan. You agree in your terms of service with the contract you sign not to tether. You tether anyways. You have violated the terms of your contract with said provider and they may charge you for the usage and any fees agreed upon for cancelation of your plan when you signed your contract. If you dont pay you can be sent to collections. You dont pay collections and I'm sure at some point said provider could (not saying they would but legally they could) take you to civil court for the money owed.
Edit:
Please, drive yourself to the nearest police station, call verizon when you get there, tell them (Verizon and the police) that you are guilty of theft of services because you tethered your phone illegaly to Verizons network and then if you somehow manage to not get arrested for your crimes please come back and post up what happened here. Your quote above says that you dont feel you should have to pay for what you yourself say is theft, why do you feel that you are above anyone else that tethers and please explain why you dont feel you should have to pay for your theft of services?
Hypocrites piss me off... It doesnt matter if you only did it once or twice, according to you its stealing, so, in essence, you yourself are a thief.
D
Deleted User
Guest
Not the same thing. First off, you're choosing to use a service other than Verizon's - you aren't using their service and then not paying for it.
Second, there is nothing in the contract about using their VVM service or a competitor's.
In regards to the pedantic arguing over whether it's "illegal" - i.e violation of a statute, or just a contract violation, or what, the reality is this would be up to the choice of whether or not Verizon would want to file charges. This certainly fits the category of theft of services - example of a statute:
So let's not pretend that you need a law degree from Harvard and fifteen years of criminal prosecution experience to understand a simple statute. This would, of course, be a misdemeanor because it is not worth enough money to be a felony. I'd say obtaining tethering service by means to avoid payment for the services is pretty cut-and-dry. Additionally, since you are violating the TOS, your use of the network in that manner is unauthorized.
I also seriously doubt VZW would ever bother going to criminal court over this, so the point is mostly an academic one anyway.
The whole question, though, is a red herring and serves only to deflect the reality of the situation - which is, in fact, that you are not abiding by the laws and contracts that are known to be in effect. I don't see why whether it's a misdemeanor or just a contract violation is relevant. "Illegal" is a convenient and short way to refer to the fact that it is a violation and not just a moral trespass, but that word keeps getting jumped on as if it were the point - which it's not.
Respectfully, that point could have great impact per my question and reason for moving this here.
It was far from pedantic, and I appreciate the perspective you provided.
It was far from pedantic, and I appreciate the perspective you provided.
D
Deleted User
Guest
Okay, that's fair. I guess from the board perspective its important. I guess I just feel that a lot of the user-arguing is over whether the technicality of the word "illegal" applies to this or not.
Possibly in the rush to argue, some of my posts, the thread title and its location have been overlooked.
I was on my way to locking it when you answered my question.
I was on my way to locking it when you answered my question.
1stAndroid
Well-Known Member
Part of what makes this a gray area as opposed to a black and white is that Android builds wireless tether capability into the OS, and motorola builds it into the physical phone, so the service is available, then verizon slaps their own software onto your phone and says "to use this software you gotta pay me"
If I use "wireless tether for root users" I'm not using verizon wireless tether app, I'm using their data to tether which goes against the ToS that says my data goes only to phone, but wireless tethering is not inherently a service you ALWAYS have to pay for by its nature.
This differentiates it from say hacking a phone to access the VZW network completely for free, or walking into a supermarket and stealing a dozen eggs.
When ... IF I tether, my phone is physically drawing signal and downloading information from the VZW network which I pay for, just as if I was watching on my phone. The only difference I see is that I am then re-broadcasting that signal to my computer.
To liken this to a recorded NBA game, Televised NBA games are copyrighted, you can't re-transmit or re-broadcast without the express written consent, yadda yadda yadda, BUT you can record them and watch them yourself on your other TV, or if you have a VCR (outdated) hooked up to your computer you can watch it there completely legally, as long as you aren't profiting from it.
So as long as I am not selling my VZW wifi hotspot out to my neighbors I don't see how this doesn't fall legally under some sort of fair use, making VZW's only complaint the breach of contract that you signed. The fact that they even had to include that clause in the contract makes it quite apparent that tethering is not inherently a paid for service, since they had to make that clause to include it.
Now, my opinion is completely different for whatever hack was created that fooled the VZW service. By all means if you hack their software which they say "you have to pay for to use our software" and then use it for free, that is a different story.
My 2 cents. Not from a legal background I'll admit that, but I can read, and read that blurb about what defines theft
Edit: I think the "is it illegal or is it a civil dispute or is it this or is it that" question is not a simple red-hering to distract from the real point, or to justify tethering. It is a question brought up by those who have tethered, those who want to tether, those who have decided to continue tethering to find out from others what the legal ramifications might be.
As I recall the earlier snippet from the contract spelled out circumventing in order to tether. So - it wouldn't matter that it was in the original code, they did what they did, you bought what you bought.
I'll have to re-check that, I think it's earlier in this thread, or in the DX annals.
I'll have to re-check that, I think it's earlier in this thread, or in the DX annals.