Dude, maybe you should read the thread. They get NO taxpayer money. NONE. And, not too many postal employees make 50 grand as a starting salary. The reason they are losing money is because they don't aim to make money. They aim to break even. Do you have any idea what a 1cent increase in gas prices means to their budget?
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Postal Service Discussion
- Thread starter nlsme
- Start date
Dude, maybe you should read the thread. They get NO taxpayer money. NONE. And, not too many postal employees make 50 grand as a starting salary. The reason they are losing money is because they don't aim to make money. They aim to break even. Do you have any idea what a 1cent increase in gas prices means to their budget?
No, the problem is they pay to much for labor and retirement.
$40,000 a year to stuff mail into a box, part time.
Post Office Pay Scales. The PS Full Time Annual Rates by Step and Grade.
I can agree with this. This debate started when Simone called the taps a failure. To me, the usps is a shining example of what the government does right. For the good of the country. Of course it isn't perfect, but, we are better with it, than we would be without it.
Okay, you walk around all day from the crack of dawn no matter the weather for less then. And those "part timers" still work 40 hours or more. Handlers start at 29,000. The average pay for union workers is 67000. There are admin/exec jobs ranging from a paultry 21,000 to a MAXIMUM of 108,000. Sounds like a lot of places outside of mcdonalds. Hardly ridiculous, and less then I had thought. All WITHOUT a dime of taxpayer money.
I disagree, if USPS workers made what UPS workers make, there would be no need to raise rates take loans or run in the red. The USPS has become a means for a union to milk money from the people.
40k to stuff letters in a box, then retire after 20 years is ridiculous to me.
You must have a crappy job if you think that is good money(mind enlightening us on what you do? Or what you make? Im a small business owner with 4 employees who all make more than 50 grand. I ate more than that last year). And fed ex and ups have similar wages. Fed ex ran in the red for the last 3 years. To the tune of 7 billion dollars.
Not all walk, post men in my area drive. And "crack of dawn?" I don't get my mail until 3pm, and I've never seen it, anywhere I've lived, come before noon.
Go find a job with the same skill set and the same starting wage in the private sector.
And paying union workers counts for the largest chunk of salary they pay out. 67,000 to stuff letters in a box is silly. How much does a netflix worker make? Bet its not $67,000.
I agree, its not a few over paid CEOs milking the USPS making it unprofitable, its lots of overpaid workers... but you end up with the same effect.
How can you cry about a CEO making too much "robbing from the poor," but don't care when its a half way literate goof ball making way to much for stuffing letters in a box? Simple answer, you benefit from one and not the other.
At least the CEO has to justify his salary and existence, if he doesn't make a profit, he won't be around long... You've got to seriously screw up to loose a post office job.
Is good money for mindless work. I'm a professional, with 10 years experience. I make more than that, but it took me a while to get there, and if I screw up or they think someone can do my job better, I'm out.
Let me ask you this, how did you get your USPS job? I bet money you knew someone who got you in. Because thats how it works, its such a sweet deal, everyone wants it, and the only way to get in is have connections.
From quick googling, you have to start off as part time stocking at 8-9/hr for 4 years, before you can start getting into those ranges.
Did you read my post? I don't work there. I know laborers that make more then that. And that is the AVERAGE. That means it takes them years to get there as well. And AGAIN, they do it without tax money. So, considering you don't use the usps, and you don't pay into it via taxes, why exactly are you so passionately against them? I would rather have a 100 people make "decent" money, then have 2 that make "most" of the money. And, last I checked, all civil service jobs hiring processes start with an open test. Ups is the one where you need "connections" to be a full time employee.
3devious
Android Expert
That discussion has been here and USPS + Social Security are 2 organizations that people point to when people say they do not want to follow that model.
They are failing in this aim. They are NOT breaking even. Feel free to argue that we've bailed out GM and I will also say that we should not have. I understand the impact (such as it would be) on local economies if GM were to collapse and feel that we've been cleaning up after these people for far too long. Just because the folks running the USPS weren't smart enough to get millions for their personal use as these no good CEOs have, does not mean that their fall should be cushioned like that too.
You can give the fact that they've had success for a significant amount of the country's history, but something is different and the USPS has failed to adjust to it. We've had to have several indoctrinations reminding our leaders that the cold war is over. Many people keep failing to remember that "What got you here isn't always going to get you there." It looks like the USPS is no different.
If I mail something, I rarely use USPS. I do not get the value out of that organization that you do and I could care less what happens to it. If my congressman sends his pollsters to ask me if he should sponsor any legislation that would throw them a bone, you can bet I will tell him no. Anyone who feels differently is welcome to use their own money to prop up the USPS, but don't even think of expecting me to willingly give them a penny.
Banking system... profits for decades.
USPS.... deficits for decades.
15 billion... GM's had a few bad decades, but they've still been profitable, the USPS on the other hand... hasn't been breaking even since it's inception.
Umm... except for borrowing from the Reserve what they need to make ends meet.
The reason that they don't make a profit is because they are trying to break even? That's a horrible excuse. There are plenty of other non-profits out there. They aren't running decades worth of deficits.
First point, the USPS is a shining example of what the government does WRONG. They manage to deliver the mail. Yes, they do. However, if they allowed competition... they would go out of business.
Don't know where you live, but around here, they drive.
Ummm. no. that's not. It's still part time. And yes, USPS workers get overtime for over 40 hours.
Maximum of 108,000? Really? I'm a government software developer... and my maximum isn't that high. I guess I should've been a USPS admin.
And all without a dime of taxpayer money... except for the 30+ years of deficits.
Agreed.
Fed Ex and UPS do NOT have similar wages.
The Average UPS line Supervisor makes $31K per year. The average Mail Clerk, makes $51k per year.
I think you can begin to see how skewed that is.
The usps and social security are not the same model. They have NOTHING in common and anyone who thjinks they has no business arguing. And again, there are things that can and should be done to correct their budget. You say lower wages, some say raise rates. Whateverthe SOMETHING WILL be done. If you don't use them, you don't pay into them. You CHOOSE to get no value out of them. Doesn't cost you ANYTHING. Luckily, enough people do realize the value, and the post office will be part of America until it collapses.
3devious
Android Expert
Where did you get this information? I know of many instances where that is absolutely not true.
Are you saying that you need connections to work at USPS or UPS? I can tell you in both cases that is also wrong.
I admire that you want people to make decent wages. Would you continue to pay the 3 people working for you if they weren't holding up their end of the deal? (If they're related I can get behind you supporting them anyway but in most other cases you have to cut them loose.) If that is not the case, your business is a charity. In that regard, call a spade a spade. That way people can support the USPS or not and they can continue to get the tax breaks they do.
Okay, first off, I don't have the time for quote trees so forgive me here. Ill start with byteware. Banking system profits for decade, followed by the largest government bailout in history. Usps losses since its inception. WRONG. PERIOD. FALSE STATEMENT. GM profitable even after decades of bad years. No arguement, but don't forget about their bailout that happened to be larger than the decades of losses by the usps. Also don't forget GM is small compared to the usps. Plenty a carriers walk. Ussualy in more densely populated areas. And their days start early and end late. Just because you get you mail late in the day means squat. And fed ex and UPS do have similar wages. Reread my statement, because here you are just making yourself look like an ass. Especially when you think an engineer should make more then an exec. Sorry, doesn't work that way int the private secret either.
Now cypher, it seems to me your entire veiw is you see no value in it. Fair enough. A lot of people do. The country has a reliable communication source, that is NATIONWIDE, equal to ALL, without costing the taxpayers a penny. Sounds like a value to me.
Now cypher, it seems to me your entire veiw is you see no value in it. Fair enough. A lot of people do. The country has a reliable communication source, that is NATIONWIDE, equal to ALL, without costing the taxpayers a penny. Sounds like a value to me.
realy people have very few options other then the usps. they are the only ones that can legally carry mail. thecan, and do, allow other people limited powers (ex fedex, ups) to deliver urgent mail.
but no one is going to pay for urgent delivery when they can get it from the usps for such a cheap price.
but no one is going to pay for urgent delivery when they can get it from the usps for such a cheap price.
this is part of the problem, it costs much more to send a letter from coast to coast then it does across town. you should be charged more.
equality is not always right
I wouldn't hesitate to fire an employee, if there was a reason. Thing is, the usps has held up their end. Yeah, they run a deficit, but that is correctable(can we agree here?). And for connections, it was in response to cipher saying you had to have connections to get into usps. I know for afact connections can go a long way at ups. And there are many instances where no tests are required for a civil service job. However, MOST do. Including usps jobs.
Did you know that same law doesn't differintuate between a letter and a package? You can fed ex or ups or dhl anything you want. There is just a minimum price point to classify as "urgent". Guess what, that minimum is half their going rate in the best instance. Don't give me competition crap, they have no desire to compete.
Do you pay more for crossing a bridge in the morning that your neighbor doesnt? And before you mention tolls, relatively few bridges have tolls.
without access to the mail box, competiton must take longer
they have to park, get out, alk to the door, knock on the door and wait.
then leave.
they must charge more as it takes them longer to deliver per address.
assum 6min vs 1min for the usps.
thereby covering less ground per truck ect.
not the same
how about
do you pay more to drive from cali to pa then you would from phily to ny
Yea, direct mail marketing! I'd say 90% of my mail is junk mail... I don't got time to dig up statistics, but I'd say a large if not half the revenue of the USPS comes from junk mail.
Basically, what you've got is a government sanctioned, pointless symbiosis.
Junk mailers can send out pointless pieces of paper for relatively cheap, while Joe Blow can keep making 50k a year doing mindless work.
Now, if you didn't have to factor in retirement, which civil service retirement plans are pretty much bankrupting cities, States and the Feds, you'd have a defensible thing.
Our economy is based on people buying and getting paid for stuff we really don't need. And this system of junk mail keeping the 50k delivery guy employed would be fine, if his retirement plan was sustainable and not contributing to States budget crisis.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/business/economy/21bankruptcy.html?_r=3&src=busln
Whenever I get package at home that doesn't require a signature, they don't knock. They leave it in my stoop. Right below my mailbox. If they need a sig, they knock. No matter if it is fed ex ups or the post office.
It is the same. They are both the responsability of the government. My recreational drive is not. Now, I ask again.
but the bridges are built with gov money, so i ask again