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Profiling terrorists

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Tommy78 said:
No one is talking about Civil rights being stripped. A simple name look up on a computer is all that is needed. That sort of thing is done everyday anyway by millions of people.
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So - the privacy of your identity details are not part and parcel of your civil rights?

I'd argue otherwise.
 
EarlyMon said:
To show, along with the responses subsequent to mine, that your argument was unsound.
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Did McVeigh declare war on the country? Does he have thousands of other guys purposefully training to kill more people and who only live to kill and get revenge on America? No. These people are dangerous on a whole other level. For crying out loud, they sacrificed themselves by crashing planes into buildings. What else needs to be said? These people will do whatever it takes to get the job done and some of you had better wake up, seriously. You're taking this threat way too lightly.
 
EarlyMon said:
So - the privacy of your identity details are not part and parcel of your civil rights?

I'd argue otherwise.
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If all that is being suggested is a name check, this is done at the airport already, with everyone. The names are available on flight manifests. I am not sure running them through some sort of recognition software would be much of a violation, if any. As I suggested, a name is a name. Nothing more. It can be altered, changed, etc.
 
Tommy78 said:
No one is talking about Civil rights being stripped. A simple name look up on a computer is all that is needed. That sort of thing is done everyday anyway by millions of people.
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ehmm wait if that only applies to Muslims having their privacy curtailed then yes that is Civil Rights being stripped from Muslims, and Muslims only

I have no problem with someones name been ran through a system to check for terror links when entering a Travel union. I do have a problem when people like you want to make being a Muslim a terror link. I'm sorry but thats just islamaphobic
 
lordofthereef said:
A name lookup? That is all that is needed to make you feel safe? By all means, let's do a name lookup on everyone.

To be fair, names can be changed, as can be identities. A simple name lookup is only going to provide us protection against complete amateurs.
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All the details are not sorted out yet, lotr. I'm just trying to assure you that my intention is not to butt-rape every Muslim that walks by.
 
Tommy78 said:
Did McVeigh declare war on the country? Does he have thousands of other guys purposefully training to kill more people and who only live to kill and get revenge on America? No. These people are dangerous on a whole other level. For crying out loud, they sacrificed themselves by crashing planes into buildings. What else needs to be said? These people will do whatever it takes to get the job done and some of you had better wake up, seriously. You're taking this threat way too lightly.
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He pretty much declared war on the federal government... ie your country.
I do take the threat of terrorism seriously. Its not a big threat. Theres not anything I can do without making things worse. I'm not seriously worrying about the day a car bomb maims me or an extremist terrorist goes on a shooting spree. I cant. There is no point. The risks have been inflated by the media, especially that on the right (esp Murdochs outlets). Its sad really.
 
Tommy78 said:
Did McVeigh declare war on the country?
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Yes.

Does he have thousands of other guys purposefully training to kill more people and who only live to kill and get revenge on America? No.
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He doesn't personally, but there are other guys, exactly of his crowd, purposefully training to kill more people and who only live to get revenge on America - yes - that's happening.

These people are dangerous on a whole other level. For crying out loud, they sacrificed themselves by crashing planes into buildings. What else needs to be said? These people will do whatever it takes to get the job done and some of you had better wake up, seriously. You're taking this threat way too lightly.
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As to taking things to a whole other level - all are organized to destroy us from within as well as by violent attack. Death is death.

The very day that overseas flights opened after 9/11, I was on a flight overseas to send a simple message - the terrorists did not change me with fear, and this won't happen again, not on my plane.

You don't know me well enough to know what I take lightly or what I do not.

Have you traveled to other lands and met others on their home ground?
 
Tommy78 said:
These people are dangerous on a whole other level. For crying out loud, they sacrificed themselves by crashing planes into buildings. What else needs to be said? These people will do whatever it takes to get the job done and some of you had better wake up, seriously. You're taking this threat way too lightly.
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Japanese had similar fighting tactics during WWII. Our answer was putting them in camps. Not one of America's proudest moments in history. Repeat stuff like that and it's a wonder there are any foreign nations left that DO like Ameirca.
 
This the last thing I'm going to say on this today:

I don't go around living my life in fear of when the next terrorist attack is going to come. I'm not going around looking at Muslims on a daily basis and worrying about what is going to happen. I'm not talking about going to some crazy extreme (as some of you would have others believe) when dealing with Muslims. I'm not talking about harassing Muslims on the street or any other crazy idea that some of you seem to think I'm talking about. What I am saying is that while in an airport we need to look a little closer at them, that's all. Considering what we're up against and what has happened I don't think that is such a horrible thing.
 
noah way said:
Your ignorance of history is sad, but could be cured by education. The US has long been a corporate imperialist state, exercising it's will on foreign governments and populations through assassination, overthrow of democratic regimes, military invasion, etc., all of which have created the "enemies" we now face.

As the current political and economic situation shows, there is no shortage of extremists and fundamentalists in positions of power in the US.

Please spare us the Beck / Limbaugh / O'Reilly mantra of "they hate us for our freedoms and success". Unless of course you are talking about our "sucess" in stealing their natural resources, killing millions of their people, deposing their democratic governments, supporting their despots (our friendly dictators), etc.
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Physician heal thyself
 
I knew I was going to get a headache when I clicked on the title. I fell so sorry for you mods.

On race, the largest Caucasians in the world? India, by the USA supreme court.

Most people in the middle east, asia, south africa, russia, china, japan, brazil are considered Caucasians. If you have a hard time understanding this, a simple 8 page reading will help you.
Renfrew Colin (1989). "The Origins of Indo-European Languages". Scientific American 261 (4): 82
 
RiverOfIce said:
I knew I was going to get a headache when I clicked on the title. I fell so sorry for you mods.

On race, the largest Caucasians in the world? India, by the USA supreme court.

Most people in the middle east, asia, south africa, russia, china, japan, brazil are considered Caucasians. If you have a hard time understanding this, a simple 8 page reading will help you.
Renfrew Colin (1989). "The Origins of Indo-European Languages". Scientific American 261 (4): 82
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lordofthereef said:
Sigh, clearly the point was missed. In current times (let's say past 20 years), I think statistics have shown that most terrorists against America haven't been white. Being that we are talking about the TSA, I think it's fair to keep the discussion about the US, no?
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Does domestic terrorism count, in the concerns about the ethnicity of destructive, twisted minds?

If not, we get to ignore the Ku Klux Klan, who, since 1865 in the U.S., routinely has terrorized African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, Semitic Americans and even other white Americans who married or even interacted with any in those minority groups.

There have been, and of course still are, other creepy little white people with guns and bombs who spend time frothing over old Nazi parade films from the 1930s and 40s. But perhaps a focus on foreign born terrorists is more convenient in this silly assumption of skin color = likelihood of being an Anti-American terrorist.
 
Frisco said:
Does domestic terrorism count, in the concerns about the ethnicity of destructive, twisted minds?

If not, we get to ignore the Ku Klux Klan, who, since 1865 in the U.S., routinely has terrorized African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, Semitic Americans and even other white Americans who married or even interacted with any in those minority groups.

There have been, and of course still are, other creepy little white people with guns and bombs who spend time frothing over old Nazi parade films from the 1930s and 40s. But perhaps a focus on foreign born terrorists is more convenient in this silly assumption of skin color = likelihood of being an Anti-American terrorist.
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The discussion stemmed from another discussion about the TSA. I don't recall neo-nazi or the KKK terrorizing the airports, but I certainly could be wrong. If they have done this, it certainly isn't the majority, as I claimed. Stating the majority are not white does not equate to none of them being white.
 
But how do we really know the majority is not white? We pretty much gather our "profiling" from the media and the media propogates the images of terrorist. Of course they aren't going to portray the image of the poster terrorist as white. Then it will give the false impression that all white people are terrorist just as most people believe all islamic/arabics/muslims are terrorist, even though this is far from true.
 
Knewz said:
But how do we really know the majority is not white? We pretty much gather our "profiling" from the media and the media propogates the images of terrorist. Of course they aren't going to portray the image of the poster terrorist as white. Then it will give the false impression that all white people are terrorist just as most people believe all islamic/arabics/muslims are terrorist, even though this is far from true.
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Great argument. Government officials should know the truth though, right? So if it is the case, they should make policy accordingly. It is not like patrons are personally observing others and taking air travel (again, I say this because that is where the thread started) into their own hands.

Sadly, most of what we know about these sorts of issues come from the media. I am not sure there is really another way to learn of it. I would like to believe that if a Caucasian get's busted smuggling a bomb onto a plane, his/her face would be plastered all over the news too.
 
lordofthereef said:
The discussion stemmed from another discussion about the TSA. I don't recall neo-nazi or the KKK terrorizing the airports, but I certainly could be wrong. If they have done this, it certainly isn't the majority, as I claimed. Stating the majority are not white does not equate to none of them being white.
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Right, I'm offering a peripheral view of the main discussion, so to speak. I just see a sort of lean in the direction of equating wanton violence with people who are not "white." It's absurd, given world history.

I know that the main focus here has become airport security, but it's a mistake, a big one, for those security efforts to lean in the direction of any color of people, that's a no brainer.
 
Frisco said:
I know that the main focus here has become airport security, but it's a mistake, a big one, for those security efforts to lean in the direction of any color of people, that's a no brainer.
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I think this is going to be human nature. Whether there is written policy or not, being that we are humans, and being that we are ware of the media, there is going to be some amount of discrimination here. Is it a measurable amount? Maybe, maybe not. You just aren't going to get 100% security personnel with zero bias. God forbid another attack happens. Whatever said person's skin color is certainly going to hinder those that share his/her ethnicity immediately after the attack going through various security checkpoints, I can guarantee it.

I gave an example (it may be in another thread since this was sort of created as a tangential topic) where I was randomly selected for a bomb residue screening (hands were swabbed and tested). I am white, of a moderate build, and had a duffle bag and backpack with me. Was it truly random? Who knows? I think a lot of things that seem random probably are not. Likewise I bet that a lot of instances that people swear are racial profiling are indeed more random than the subjects wish to believe.
 
Frisco said:
I just see a sort of lean in the direction of equating wanton violence with people who are not "white." It's absurd, given world history.
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It's really hard to not get banned right now. Okay. we are not talking about history. We are not talking about every person who has ever done anything to kill someone since the earth has been spinning, okay. We are talking about "airports", right? Muslims at airports, right? Why do you think I'm zeroing in on Muslims at airports? For fun? No. Because "they" (Muslims) flew planes into buildings as an act of war, right? Now here I am as a guy who wants to not let that ever happen again (by the people who are at war with us at this very moment in time) and want to pay a little extra attention to the ones coming from the countries where they train terrorists to kill Americans. Make sense now?
 
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