Academics shouldbe required, but not sociopolitical vakues. If a parent wants to raise their kid to be racist, then so be it.
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Same-Sex Marriage
- Thread starter FreakyLocz14
- Start date
Academics shouldbe required, but not sociopolitical vakues. If a parent wants to raise their kid to be racist, then so be it.
lordofthereef
Android Expert
The trouble is it's a part of history. By teaching them that America changed laws to be more accepting it is sort of implying that this is the right thing to do (and not be prejudice/racist), at least that's how I would interpret it as a kid.
I understand what you are saying. Teaching that our laws changed on race issues is historical fact. Teaching that those changes are right or wrong is sociopolitcal indoctrination.
Also, many African-Americans take offense to being compared to hoosexuals.
lordofthereef
Android Expert
I am not making any such comparisons at all. I am bringing up changes in law is all. This is an issue of singling out a group of people because they are different. The same was/is the case with African Americans. In terms of law changes, it is very similar.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
I think its sad that it needs to be taught in schools that gays and non whites are as much human as heterosexual whites.
Its such a basic thing really. But yeah, it should be told to kids so they don't follow there parents ways.
I'm all for gay marraige. I don't really see an argument against it that doesn't include religion, and the state should be secular.
Its such a basic thing really. But yeah, it should be told to kids so they don't follow there parents ways.
I'm all for gay marraige. I don't really see an argument against it that doesn't include religion, and the state should be secular.
Isthmus
Android Expert
I for one I'm damn proud to be a New Yorker today. It's about time New York legalized gay marriage. Good on you new york!
As an aside, I seriously expect there to be some major waves caused by this. the reason I say so is because new york is home to more fortune 500 companies than anywhere else in the world. even then many other major companies that are not based here, have major offices here. I can already see New York requiring companies to uphold it's laws and in order to avoid crossing NY state these very large companies simply adapting their internal practices everywhere simply to make sure they are in compliance. I know my company already extends benefits to gay employees and couples everywhere we are based. I'm pretty sure that practice will only be expanded now. The effect I see is companies trying to avoid the hassles of dealing with competing benefits laws (and potential litigation) and simply pressuring other state governments to follow suit.
As an aside, I seriously expect there to be some major waves caused by this. the reason I say so is because new york is home to more fortune 500 companies than anywhere else in the world. even then many other major companies that are not based here, have major offices here. I can already see New York requiring companies to uphold it's laws and in order to avoid crossing NY state these very large companies simply adapting their internal practices everywhere simply to make sure they are in compliance. I know my company already extends benefits to gay employees and couples everywhere we are based. I'm pretty sure that practice will only be expanded now. The effect I see is companies trying to avoid the hassles of dealing with competing benefits laws (and potential litigation) and simply pressuring other state governments to follow suit.
pantlesspenguin
Android Enthusiast
This whole discussion made me think of an article in The Onion I read awhile ago:
Future U.S. History Students: 'It's Pretty Embarrassing How Long You Guys Took To Legalize Gay Marriage'
Future U.S. History Students: 'It's Pretty Embarrassing How Long You Guys Took To Legalize Gay Marriage'
So you're okay with schools teaching things you don't believe in?
jaiotu
Member
Imagine how the curriculum would look if the Public Schools had to get consent from every parent regarding what is or isn't taught. Almost any subject is going to ellicit opposition from someone.
Is it okay for the school to teach about the holocaust? What if one parent in the classroom is a holocaust denier? What if another considers it to be too delicate a subject for their little snowflake?
What is the proper way to teach about the Civil War? I live in the deep south and many people here will swear up and down that slavery had absolutely nothing to do with why the Southern States seceded from the Union. Should the Public Schools here reflect that sentiment?
The reality is that, if you don't like what the Public Schools are teaching, you DO have alternatives. Private schools exist. Most States permit homeschooling.
Vihzel
Destroying Balls Everyday
That's how I really think future generations will look back at this.
Look at how we view treatment of Native Americans and the Trail of Tears, slavery of African Americans, treatment of women, women's suffrage, treatment of African Americans after Civil War (ex. Jim Crow Laws), Red Scare, Japanese Americans internment camps during WWII, civil rights battles of AAs, views on interracial marriage between blacks and whites, etc. etc.
Did you know that there were laws prohibiting interracial marriage and sex (actual felonies) that weren't contested until the late 1940s?
When and how did laws prohibiting interracial marriage and sex become overtuned? 1967 by the court case decision of Loving vs. Virginia.
Which court ultimately made interracial marriage and sex legal across the entire country? The U.S. Supreme Court.
Which states made it illegal until 1967? Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia.
My point is... like interracial marriage, same-sex marriage needs to go the same route in being legal throughout the entire country to avoid complications, like how Loving faced complications in the court case.
I'm actually the kind of person who advocates that all schools be private. This is one of the many reasons why. Thousands of children with parents of varying backgrounds and beliefs in one school will cause conflict as no curriculum can be sure to appease them all. It is established that parents should be notified beforehand and allowed to pull their children from class whenever topics of a sexual nature will be discussed in class already, though. This should apply whether the content is heterosexual or homosexual in nature.
Isthmus
Android Expert
isn't that the option that homeschooling gives you today?
lordofthereef
Android Expert
The difference here is that we aren't teaching what is right, but that it exists. Whether a parent believes in it or not, it's here to stay. I can still believe the world is flat and nobody can stop me. The only caveat is that I would still be wrong.
pantlesspenguin
Android Enthusiast
So even If the children's story had been about a prince and a princess rather than two princes (whoa, hello 90s flashback!) parents should be able to pull their kids from the class because they're talking about something heterosexual in nature? I think it's pretty safe to say the two princes story wasn't sexual in nature at all. I'm pretty sure the book didn't delve into what the princes did on their wedding night.
pantlesspenguin
Android Enthusiast
This. Exactly.
ETA: When issues such as biracial marriage started appearing in schools, perhaps in harmless little children's stories, I'm sure there was still a lot of opposition. But, progression has to start at some point, you know?
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
I agree, it would be a mess.
Although I agree that there are alternatives to public schools, I do not know how many people could afford a private school. And with people working so hard these days, forget about homeschooling because it is not practical.
If everyone was home schooled, well, revisit your comments above. We would have a thousand kids with incomplete schooling because things like the Civil War or The Holocaust would be eliminated or substantially changed so the child is not properly educated.
Someone would need to define the curriculum and that would likely be a problem for some people in your examples.
We are "stick" with public schools I am afraid.
What we really need to do is eliminate the NEA and return all educational duties to the state. We need to be able to eliminate bad teachers and we need to make sure every kid is properly educated without being subjected to a teacher's agenda or crazy ass nut bar ideas and ideals.
Education can be cost efficient and effective if we the people decide we no longer want a stupid society.
to those who think gay marriage will ruin the family, etc., thats stupid as hell. Most gays, ~90-95% are born with their penises getting hard to men or vajs getting wet to girls, only a small percent are "experimenting" or doing it to be cool in certain places, like NYU. Actually, the more accepted and normal it is to be gay, the less likely people are gonna try to make a statement of it. I find it annoying when gays try to make being gay the sole thing their personality is based off of. In reality, most people will be straight as they've always been. No, gays didn't bring down the Roman Empire and they won't bring down America.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Some families are indeed damaged by a same sex marriage. It is a fact of life, not "stupid as hell." Ask any gay person on this list how much damage it can cause and please, forget the biological fluid dynamics lessons and discussion of ductility and penile tumescence . . . it does not matter.
Besides, apparently, everyone is born a female and at some point, some enzyme, like the marriage enzyme or perhaps the talk too much wont shut up ruin the mans life bitch bitch bitch make him sell his motorcycle yes dear right away dear no you cant date my sister enzyme takes over and another wife is born.
If true, guys, you can play the 'I was once a woman' card and it is likely true.
Fact is, announcing that you are gay and/or that you are marrying a guy (if you are male) and the "damage" is very real.
I want gays in the military. Can you imagine how flab and delicious the Middle East would be if it were redecorated and a little color besides sand were added to the landscape? I'll bet the musicals would rule. Take that, Bob Hope.
lordofthereef
Android Expert
Bob,
Can you elaborate on the damage you speak of when a person marries another person of the same sex?
Can you elaborate on the damage you speak of when a person marries another person of the same sex?
In sexual education, it is what exists that is being taught. How human reproduction and sexuality works doesn't take a judgement call to teach it to kids. We also have to think about what's age appropriate. In second grade, kids weren't even thinking about the opposite sex is a romantic or sexual way, let alone the same sex. We thought that girls had cooties.
lordofthereef
Android Expert
This isn't limited to sex ed though. Earlier we were discussing the "two princes" story and some are suggesting keeping any reference to homosexuality out of the class room be it in sex ed. or otherwise.
The point of sex ed, as I remember it, was teaching kids about the changes their bodies go through during puberty, including sexual urges, along with teaching safe sex practices. We were never taught how to have sex, who to have sex with, etc. because it simply isn't relevant. The vast majority of sex ed class simply covered how to take care of your body nutritionally, hygienically, etc.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
When someone tells their family and friends that that they are gay, it often does great damage. Fathers hate sons and mothers wonder where they went wrong. Tears are shed and many father's sons and daughters are dead. Friends often disappear.
This does not need factoids, or charts, or Wikipedia articles, it is a simply fact of life.
Gay marriage is not what many/most parents wanted for their children. It is a sign to many that they raised their children incorrectly because to many people, homosexuality is a sin and abhorrent defect of nature or a choice. Another simple fact.
God fearing Bible thumpers take from their Bibles, passages that make being gay a terrible sin and they will burn in hell. For many religious people, being gay is an unforgivable sin, period.
Look at the history of gay people in this country. Religion often views homosexuality as abhorrent. Look at how society in general feels about gay people, and learn something. May people do not like gay people or gay marriage, period.
Being gay is horrible and homosexual marriage is terrible thing indeed, for many, many people.
By the way, marrying outside your religion is also a terrible thing for many people. In Utah, not marrying another Mormon can damage a family. A staunch Jew would never allow their son/daughter to marry a non-Jew, in many cases.
You compared them in an earlier post of yours.
Also, this post makes comparisons that many African-Americans find offensive.
This is the end results:
70% of African Americans backed Prop. 8, exit poll finds - latimes.com
Progression is the future. I'm talking about there here and now. Allowing parents to pull their children from discussions about homosexuality may not be relevant in the future, but it is relevant today.
pantlesspenguin
Android Enthusiast
See, who's "fault" is that, though? Let me give you an example.
Let's say you have a son, Junior Maxey. You raise him to be a fine upstanding citizen. In high school, he was on the honor roll, captain of the football team, & voted Homecoming King. He was polite, & never got in trouble with the law. You just know he's going to make some young woman very happy, & raise a fine family some day.
Now he's off to college. He calls you before Christmas vacation & says that he has met someone very special, & asks if he can invite them to spend Christmas with your family. Overjoyed for your son, you say of course it's ok to bring her along & to tell you all about her. Your son then says "Actually, dad, HIS name is Daniel. I met him in my government course. He wants to go into law. He's a great guy & we have a lot in common & I know you & Mom will really like him."
The ball is now in Papa Maxey's court. Junior is still the same guy he has always been. Fine, upstanding, polite, etc. He's now entrusted you with some very important information about himself. The poor kid is on the edge of his seat wondering how you will react. How would you respond?
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
You can't progress in the future if you don't progress now