shawn487
Android Enthusiast
Huh? Who sifts through it? Hint... just go to the last page when you check in.
i used to do that then i noticed how many things i miss so i started to hit first unread message to keep in the loop now
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Still Confident Bravo is coming to Verizon
- Thread starter brodymon
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i used to do that then i noticed how many things i miss so i started to hit first unread message to keep in the loop now
kyler13
Android Expert
All the manufacturers use a third party lab. That's to make sure the FCC isn't getting manufacturer cooked reports. The independent labs are certified to comply with FCC guidelines. The Samsung Omnia II was tested at a lab right down the road from me in Columbia, MD. The other thing is that these phones pretty much never fail FCC approval. The manufacturer tests and knows all the data already. They submit to a third party as a formality, and that third party basically confirms the characteristics into an official report submitted to the FCC. Bottom line is that sometimes these reports are a couple months old from the independent lab and are submitted when the manufacturer is ready. I wouldn't be surprised if the Incredible or CDMA Nexus One has already been third party tested. It may even be submitted because sometimes the approval can sit with the FCC for a few weeks before approval (I've seen 4 week old submissions come through in the database).
Even though the N1 will be available for Verizon, this does not mean Verizon will be selling it (just like you can't buy an N1 from Tmobile). Google is changing how we buy phones, but that isn't going to stop Verizon from offering their own, better phone (Bravo?) so they get more revenue share from phone sales.
I hope you're correct....but it just doesn't make sense to me that two almost identical phones would be available for use on Verizon. I'm not saying it would be impossible...but if this were the case I think Google would sell very few N1s...as the Bravo would certainly push it out of the way. Could Verizon get a phone such as the Bravo to us just before, at the same time, or just after the N1 becomes available to them? Would Google not have some sort of agreement with HTC to prevent this from happening?
I read the reply from Shawn to my previous post and see the chain of information. I've been lurking long enough to see all the same evidence...Dragon, Passion...then Bravo/Incredible...but I have also read information that suggests the N1 is also an equivalent to these other rumored phones.
When you see how Motorola stepped out on stage for the N1 launch...and how there is a "can't wait" link to the Droid on the Google site....it looks like they are all friendly, holding hands, and moving forward cohesively. This makes me think the N1 will be Verizon's only offering of this type of HTC phone....at least for awhile. With all of this said, I've been secretly hoping Google would back off of it's strategy to sell the N1 direct and let Verizon market it via their stores. Although I admit this idea takes more than a few grand assumptions of its own in order to believe it could ever happen. One obvious one would be....a Google Phone...made by HTC....for Google...sold by Verizon? Hmmm
Once again, I would rather see the Bravo/Incredible available than this N1. I prefer the look and would rather have the Sense UI. I would also rather buy it directly from the carrier so as to have a real brick and mortar store to take it back to if there were to be a problem. Even though it looks like the Bravo in Europe will be the N1 here...I would be more than happy to be wrong in my assumptions.
One final thought.... If Verizon were to market the Bravo/Incredible...I think it would be the beginning of the end of Google's attempt at marketing the N1. Sales are already dismal...and pretty much all they would have left is to sell a phone usable on Sprint. If Verizon releases the Bravo here in the US it would be a direct hostile blow to Google.
Stop thinking of it as 2 similar phones. Instead think of it as 2 flows of cash. The N1 flow goes to Google only. The Incredible flow mostly goes to Verizon and maybe a little to Google.
Yes Motorola was at the N1 launch. But by your theory that would mean that they wouldn't make a snapdragon powered android phone and would stick at 600mhz phones (droid underclocked to 550). Of course there is a cant wait link on the N1 order page, because it goes to another Android phone. Thats not shiny happy people, thats Google saying "well if you cant wait to give us all your money give us some by buying this phone".
I very much expect Verizon to launch a phone to take on the N1. Quite frankly if the Incredible lives up to the hype it could very well be a Nexus killer with some better hardware features. Letting the N1 on Verizon might bring more customers to Verizon, but it aint going to bring in more cash. Why wouldn't Verizon compete with Google for all that cash? I can't imagine Verizon was stoked to find out Google wanted to sell phones directly.
Being a Sense phone would also make the Incredible a bit different from the N1.
The Bravo will not be the N1 in Europe. Vodafone is already on the order page of the N1. If they're not the biggest European carrier they are close.
eipee73
Android Enthusiast
I have to disagree on this...
You already stated that there is a lot of handholding between motorola, google, htc, and verizon which leads me to believe that selling the Bravo on Verizon would not be a direct blow to anyone. HTC and Motorola realize they are competitors, but they also realize that they have to play it nice in order to keep good relationships with both Google and VZW. The Nexus One has way too much hype within the Android community. Stop and think, what is the N1? It is an HTC device that is being sold strictly online through Google, but with plans from multiple carriers. All you're seeing is Google attempting to bring a phone to the masses.
There is no reason VZW/HTC should be hesitant to bring a device to the network that is similar to the N1. Although the internals are very similar there is a huge calling for a phone with Sense and HTC would be foolish not to develop one for that crowd. I have heard both opinions on vanilla Android v. Sense UI and it really is a matter of personal opinion. If HTC brought the Bravo to all networks that will be having the N1 it would be beneficial from a customer service/PR point of view in which Google, HTC, and Verizon (or whoever) is saying to the customer "we hear you, you have options now".
Far too long have consumers had to settle for the closest they could get to the phone they really wanted. If HTC/Verizon/Google bring the N1 and Bravo to the consumer I think it really speaks to the consumer on how things will be in the future. The fact of the matter is Verizon could provide you with the Bravo and N1 and even 2 more phones exactly the same w/physical qwertys and we would all be satisfied...until next month when the next best thing comes along. Technology changes so rapidly that these companies understand it doesn't matter how good today's phone is, because you will always want a new one in 3 months.
Sorry for the long ramble....I'm way too tired this morning...hopefully some of it at least made a touch of sense
rockwellcola
Lurker
From "people in the know" seems like the only new Android phone on VZW this quarter is Moto Calgary. Still think we will have to wait till the May-June timeframe. 
Hope Im wrong
Hope Im wrongI agree with you andiron. I've been a long-time lurker in these forums hoping for some good news but wanted to chime in on this. I can understand why verizon would want another awesome phone in their lineup but it doesn't seem to make sense for HTC or Google. I can't imagine that HTC would want to risk cannibalizing N1 sales in the near term by releasing such a similar phone on Verizon (or T-Mobile for that matter). If they could sell N1 on V & T-Mob and then sell the Bravo on AT&T or Sprint, they would undoubtably sell more handsets overall. Win for both HTC & the android platform. I would also question Google's enthusiasm for Verizon to offer an N1 clone after they agreed to play ball the N1 (which meant a commitment from HTC & Google to spend $ on creating a CDMA model).
Don't get me wrong...I really want to be wrong about this because I'm hoping for this phone as well, it just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint for all of the parties involved. (Also, thanks to all for the great info communicated in these forums!!!)
Don't get me wrong...I really want to be wrong about this because I'm hoping for this phone as well, it just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint for all of the parties involved. (Also, thanks to all for the great info communicated in these forums!!!)
kyler13
Android Expert
From "people in the know" seems like the only new Android phone on VZW this quarter is Moto Calgary. Still think we will have to wait till the May-June timeframe.
Verizon better release a new HTC Android phone this quarter or else, OR ELSE......um......I'll wait until next quarter, I guess.
What's the alternative? More dropped calls in more places? Simply everything unless I'm roaming? Or get more in fewer locations than the rest of the competition? (Name those carriers. 
)BradGfromBoo
Well-Known Member
I must be confused on how wireless carriers make their money. Verizon is not in the business of selling phones. They sell wireless service.
Take the moto droid for instance. You can buy a droid, unsubsidized without a contract through verizon. This money (not counting a rebate or kick back to verizon) goes to motorola. If you buy it with a 2 year contract, Verizon will PAY motorola a portion for the phone. VERIZON DOES NOT MAKE MONEY ON PHONE SALES. Like any distributor, they will get a kickback based on how many phones they sell. (costco and sams club sell large quantities so they get kickback from companies like clorox for selling huge amounts of their product.)
Now look at the nexus one. You still have the same exact business philosophy. If you buy an unlocked N1, Google gets the money (not counting a rebate or kickback to verizon.) If you buy it with a 2 year contract, Verizon will PAY google a portion for the phone. VERIZON DOES NOT MAKE MONEY ON PHONE SALES. The more phones that verizon helps google sell, the more the rebate/kick back to verizon. It is a very common business practice.
Once again.... Verizon is not in the business of selling hardware. They make their money from service, and by locking customers in a 2 year contract, they know they will make that subsidization money back.
Am I wrong (and dont say "You're not wrong Walter. You're just an asshole.")
Take the moto droid for instance. You can buy a droid, unsubsidized without a contract through verizon. This money (not counting a rebate or kick back to verizon) goes to motorola. If you buy it with a 2 year contract, Verizon will PAY motorola a portion for the phone. VERIZON DOES NOT MAKE MONEY ON PHONE SALES. Like any distributor, they will get a kickback based on how many phones they sell. (costco and sams club sell large quantities so they get kickback from companies like clorox for selling huge amounts of their product.)
Now look at the nexus one. You still have the same exact business philosophy. If you buy an unlocked N1, Google gets the money (not counting a rebate or kickback to verizon.) If you buy it with a 2 year contract, Verizon will PAY google a portion for the phone. VERIZON DOES NOT MAKE MONEY ON PHONE SALES. The more phones that verizon helps google sell, the more the rebate/kick back to verizon. It is a very common business practice.
Once again.... Verizon is not in the business of selling hardware. They make their money from service, and by locking customers in a 2 year contract, they know they will make that subsidization money back.
Am I wrong (and dont say "You're not wrong Walter. You're just an asshole.")
shawn487
Android Enthusiast
You're not wrong Walter. You're just an asshole j/k I do agree that cell phone companies are out there to make there money off the services they provide. I do disagree that they make no money off he phones. They make money off of them but it is not much at all. A kickback is still making money. I know while working at Best Buy the mobile phones area would usually show they didn
So then by your model Motorola must simply let Verizon borrow the phones hoping they'll sell. Otherwise Verizon would have to pay something to get their stock whether it be by lease or purchase.
But you've kinda screwed up your original point. If all the money goes back to the phone maker then Verizon's choice is they can sell just a single HTC phone (the N1), or they can sell two (N1 and Incredible). So if Verizon gets no cash at all, and everyone is buddy buddy in the Verizon, Google and HTC triangle, then why wouldn't Verizon help HTC out more by carrying another one of their products?
Also you can buy unsubsidized phones (pretty sure all of their phones are this way. For sure the Droid and Eris are) through verizon for month to month contracts.
I think there are a couple things people are missing (that I could be wrong on, but don't think so)
Google doesn't sell phones (until now), or operating systems. Android OS is free to any manufacture that wants to make an android phone. There is no $$ kick back to google per android phone sold (which is why its growth is exploding and manufactures will make tons of different "android" phones). Like Linux, it is a free open-source operating system for phones. Google's master plan is just to get google services and google search into more people's hands. That's how they make their money. So they don't care very much whether Verizon, AT&T, Google Store or Joe Schmoe sell the phone. As long as another person is using android with google built in and all the ad revenue that person will produce... they are happy.
Now I think the reason they decided to make the N1 was not so much for hardware profit (although they may be getting some of that) but to set a standard for what they want a "google phone" to be. Too long they've had to bend to the will of the carriers, and instead they went directly to a phone manufacture (HTC) and said this is what we want our phone to be like to use Android. The idea here is that it would force carriers to make a competitive phone in the android lineup (Bravo/Incredible). Verizon made that any phone/any network agreement and google is forcing their hand by making the N1 available on the Verizon network. It doesn't stop Verizon from not selling it themselves, or making a better version of the same phone for them to sell (along with the accessories etc = more $$).
There is still a massive market for regular people to walk into a carrier store and purchase their phone. Why would Verizon want to lose out on sales by keeping a better phone away from those people who might here "well google has such and such"
Again, for google AND verizon having a similar, although different, phone sold through 2 different fronts is a win for both, and that includes the consumer.
Like everyone else, sorry for the ramble.
Google doesn't sell phones (until now), or operating systems. Android OS is free to any manufacture that wants to make an android phone. There is no $$ kick back to google per android phone sold (which is why its growth is exploding and manufactures will make tons of different "android" phones). Like Linux, it is a free open-source operating system for phones. Google's master plan is just to get google services and google search into more people's hands. That's how they make their money. So they don't care very much whether Verizon, AT&T, Google Store or Joe Schmoe sell the phone. As long as another person is using android with google built in and all the ad revenue that person will produce... they are happy.
Now I think the reason they decided to make the N1 was not so much for hardware profit (although they may be getting some of that) but to set a standard for what they want a "google phone" to be. Too long they've had to bend to the will of the carriers, and instead they went directly to a phone manufacture (HTC) and said this is what we want our phone to be like to use Android. The idea here is that it would force carriers to make a competitive phone in the android lineup (Bravo/Incredible). Verizon made that any phone/any network agreement and google is forcing their hand by making the N1 available on the Verizon network. It doesn't stop Verizon from not selling it themselves, or making a better version of the same phone for them to sell (along with the accessories etc = more $$).
There is still a massive market for regular people to walk into a carrier store and purchase their phone. Why would Verizon want to lose out on sales by keeping a better phone away from those people who might here "well google has such and such"
Again, for google AND verizon having a similar, although different, phone sold through 2 different fronts is a win for both, and that includes the consumer.
Like everyone else, sorry for the ramble.
Sasquatch
Member
word. +1
JMKosmo
Android Expert
Could this be what DroidDeveloper saw in a darken room? A Version version of "The Legend"???
Seven HTC Android phones tipped in user profiles | Android Community
Seven HTC Android phones tipped in user profiles | Android Community
Very much no. As VaDivot said in the other post the screen is the wrong size. DroidDeveloper said exactly "The screen was bright and with a nearby Samsung Behold II it was obvious the Incredible had the same 3.7″ AM-OLED screen just like the Nexus One."
Droid Developer Verizon has something “INCREDIBLE” up their sleeves..
The Behold 2 only has a 3.2in screen.
Samsung Behold II Specs & Features (Phone Scoop)
The Behold 2 screen size just happens to be the same size as the HTC Legend.
HTC portfolio for first half of 2010 - Engadget Galleries
Nashdroid
Android Expert
I swear, you have the BEST responses in this entire forum! Always just facts and numbers. I love it! You let the facts speak for themselves, and you're willing to do a little research and put some real time into your posts in order to give an intelligent answer that is backed up by solid facts, links and/or documentation. Keep up the good work! It's always a pleasure reading your posts in here.
1ofthekoolkidz
Lurker
I know that I am new to this site, but has any thought of the possibility of the "Bravo" being the Nexus 2. I remember google saying that this was the first phone in the Nexus line, so is it possible? Next I would love this phone to go to good ole VZW but there are a few things out of place from the story at Droid Developers, first where is the "Snapdragon" this guy said the processor for the Incredible is 850mhz, next, although the pictures of the Bravo, well kinda suck I am sure most people can make out the color red from black. This picture, obviously has to be a test model or one step beyond, where is the Red backing this guy was talking about, cause I sure don't see it.
Doubtful, but I have read some rumors that the Nexus2 will actually be made by Motorola. Possibly the Motorola shadow which will probably hit verizon in Q3 and will have a 4.3" screen as well an HDMI connection and HD video recording amongst many other goodies.
cdmta
Well-Known Member
It is assumed that the leaked pic is sweden's bravo. it was first shown on a UK site.
Verizon just put their spin on the model. also i have heard of demo units being different colors.
as far as demo units being different colors are you referring to the droid developer report (red backing) or do you have info that we may not have?
Ruben
Android Expert
I just hope it stays the way it is: black. I love the physical buttons and design overall. It is probably going to come down to which comes out first --- the Bravo or the Nexus, so I'm probably going to get the nexus, and then when the Bravo comes out just be super jealous. Hopefully the Nexus will get Sense ported over soon. They just released the kernal codes, so maybe so. The different screen res might slow it up a bit though.
i dont think im going to worry to much about the back of it because im sure ill be putting it into somekind of protective case
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