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UN Libyan Resolution
- Thread starter cipher6
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Emancipation Proclamation
Was only to free slaves in the south. Wasnt meant for the slaves in the north.
Emancipation Proclamation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Uhh... thats got nothing to do with Lincoln personally owning slaves.
Have you ever heard of the Thirteenth Amendment? Passed one year later?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
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Dark Jedi
Guest
I would say no as obama wants to phase them out. He was giving a speech a year ago in Alaska at their AFB that had F-15 and F-22. THey Put a F-22 in the in front of the podium and he told them to move that plane out and put a F-15.
So no he wont let the Raptors over there to prove what they can do.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
well at least the Eurofighter Typhoons are out in force 
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Dark Jedi
Guest
THe raptor is better than any eurotrash out therewell at least the Eurofighter Typhoons are out in force
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
THe raptor is better than any eurotrash out there
at least the Eurotrash has bombed something
and I made a scale model for Art Exam so it wins by default (beechaz)
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Dark Jedi
Guest
The eurotrash dont even have vector thrust. Its a kids toy. THE Raptor is a pure flying beast.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Flying Beasts suck
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ElasticNinja
Android Expert
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Off-topic: vectored thrust means diddly-squat in modern i.e. beyond visual range air warfare which is conducted at Mach 1.0+ speeds at ranges of tens of miles. What the F-22 does have is its 'stealth', which makes it more difficult for radar-guided AAMs to lock-on and track them. As to the "kid's toy" comment, you might ask the USAF pilots who've gone up against it in Green/Red Flag exercises what their opinion is.
On-topic: has anyone else seen the camera-phone footage of the initial protest that triggered the rebellion? Govt troops clearly firing live rounds into a peaceful demonstration, and wading into the wounded with batons and rifle butts....
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Dark Jedi
Guest
No difference than the civil rights movements in the 60's and vietnam war demonstration in the 60's also. Granted not much shooting but lots of beatings with batons and so on.
Why do people act so surprised when a version of that has happened in many countries including the US not long ago?
You live in a dictatorship country. You have a protest in the city against the ruler. Guess what? To shut your protest up he has the lot of you all shot and beaten right on the street during the protest. THis sends a clear message to just stay in the fold and dont call for change. Rule with fear and intimidation.
Why do people act so surprised when a version of that has happened in many countries including the US not long ago?
You live in a dictatorship country. You have a protest in the city against the ruler. Guess what? To shut your protest up he has the lot of you all shot and beaten right on the street during the protest. THis sends a clear message to just stay in the fold and dont call for change. Rule with fear and intimidation.
Mac_Leod
Well-Known Member
Off-topic: vectored thrust means diddly-squat in modern i.e. beyond visual range air warfare which is conducted at Mach 1.0+ speeds at ranges of tens of miles. What the F-22 does have is its 'stealth', which makes it more difficult for radar-guided AAMs to lock-on and track them. As to the "kid's toy" comment, you might ask the USAF pilots who've gone up against it in Green/Red Flag exercises what their opinion is.
There's also the supercruise capability. The Typhoon tops out at Mach 1.5 without afterburners whereas the Raptor can get up to Mach 1.82.
Vector thrust becomes very important once you run out of missiles. Stealth is also pretty important for that too. In training dogfights, the Raptor has been able to close to gun range without being detected.
While important, it's not a unique feature though. Still must be nice to be able to give your birds a boost off the rail without worrying about a heat signature giving you away.
If so then I humbly suggest that the 'victim' was asleep. The visual cross-section of an F-22 isn't any less than that of an F-16, and I have it on good authority from both a USAF and a Luftwaffe pilot that they can see one of those with the 'Mk1 eyeball' at a range of over 10mls, well beyond gun range.
Anyway, I've seen no hints there are F-22s in-theatre. So far I'm aware of Typhoons and Tornado GR4s in S Italy, Danish F-16s and Canadian CF-18s in Sicily, French Rafales and Mirages in Corsica, and I think at least one squadron of USAF F-16s are still based up in N Italy. Yet more F-16s from Belgium and Norway are on the way and may operate from Greece. Spain had four F-18s in action yesterday, operating base unknown. With that firepower (and combat experience) ranged against them, it would be a brave (or foolish) Libyan pilot who took to the air....
That's the problem with your understanding of the situation. Both sides have civilian support.
Before Gaddafi took power, Eastern Libya was the favored group. Gaddafi from Western Libya favored the tribes of Western Libya. The tribes in Eastern Libya were treated unfairly. Basically, it is THESE tribes that are rebelling against Gaddafi, and the Western Tribes (and their civilians) are supporting Gaddafi.
Seriously, are Irish news outlets reporting this so cut and dried simple as... the people are rising up against Gaddafi, and it's just him, the military, and mercenaries defying them?
ok, I've been trying to decide where I fall on all this for a while, and I've come up with a few things.
If, your going to go in because you want to protect civilians, we're doing it the wrong way. This NFZ but not supporting the rebels or targeting Qaddafi will only prolong things. The way to protect civilians and decrease blood shed, is put an end to it quick.
Why Qaddafi and not Yemen or others? No one likes Qaddafi. The UN and world powers should come out and say that too.
"Qaddafi is a mad man, who won't work with us, so screw that guy, we're taking him out to prevent him from killing civilians."
"Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen will cooperate, and doesn't kill quite as many people, so he's cool, we won't blow him up."
This limited goals, NFZ and hiding true intentions behind UN declarations are just gonna get more people killed.
If, your going to go in because you want to protect civilians, we're doing it the wrong way. This NFZ but not supporting the rebels or targeting Qaddafi will only prolong things. The way to protect civilians and decrease blood shed, is put an end to it quick.
Why Qaddafi and not Yemen or others? No one likes Qaddafi. The UN and world powers should come out and say that too.
"Qaddafi is a mad man, who won't work with us, so screw that guy, we're taking him out to prevent him from killing civilians."
"Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen will cooperate, and doesn't kill quite as many people, so he's cool, we won't blow him up."
This limited goals, NFZ and hiding true intentions behind UN declarations are just gonna get more people killed.
Left Coast DJ
Android Enthusiast
If the U.S. is in the business of getting involved in other countries' internal issues, then we should bomb to help free the Scottish and Northern Irish from the English, the Basque from the French and Spanish... and so forth. Anyone up for bombing London and Paris?
One word noobs... OIL!
This is another example of the US people getting bamboozled into thinking this is about "freedom" when what's truly behind is to keep the pipeline flowing for Exxon-Mobile-Chevron-BP and the political contributions!
One word noobs... OIL!
This is another example of the US people getting bamboozled into thinking this is about "freedom" when what's truly behind is to keep the pipeline flowing for Exxon-Mobile-Chevron-BP and the political contributions!
While this is a great "OIL IS EVIL" statement. It actually doesn't hold up with what we are doing.
If we wanted to keep the oil flowing, then we would support Gaddafi, and squash the rebels (which would be far easier than what we are doing now).
What is happening here is that Obama feels morally justified in taking sides, but doesn't really have the spine to do it.
So, he waited for the UN resolution and hides behind that, all the while saying that our "political" goal is for Gaddafi to be gone, but that's not why we're bombing him.
cos slaves = semi human?
Which slaves. The slaves of the northern states? Or the slaves of the Southern states?
While important, it's not a unique feature though. Still must be nice to be able to give your birds a boost off the rail without worrying about a heat signature giving you away.
If so then I humbly suggest that the 'victim' was asleep. The visual cross-section of an F-22 isn't any less than that of an F-16, and I have it on good authority from both a USAF and a Luftwaffe pilot that they can see one of those with the 'Mk1 eyeball' at a range of over 10mls, well beyond gun range.
Yes, but pilots also have blind spots.
If you determine which direction a fighter is traveling via radar, then you can sneak up behind them without them being able to see you. If the pilot is maneuvering, you aren't likely going to be able to sneak up on him (unless you are below him consistently), but sneaking up on someone from behind and below... absolutely doable.
I'm not saying it can't happen, but it shouldn't if a pilot remembers his basic air combat manoeuvering lessons. Rule #1..... "check six"!
Apologies for the off-topic discussion - old habits die hard.