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Vegan here!! Started out vegetarian 34 years ago, transitioned to vegan along the way.
After learning about the heinous cruelty to sentient beings in the meat and dairy industries, I can't imagine ever going back.
I must say that being vegan today is much, much easier than it was in the '80s. There's such a plethora of amazing, delicious, and decadent vegan products now, if I were starting today it wouldn't be hard at all.
After learning about the heinous cruelty to sentient beings in the meat and dairy industries, I can't imagine ever going back.
I must say that being vegan today is much, much easier than it was in the '80s. There's such a plethora of amazing, delicious, and decadent vegan products now, if I were starting today it wouldn't be hard at all.
You've got that backwards!If we don't eat the Cows they will fill up our air with Methane from their farts and eventually out populate us, a steak or methane farts ? it's a easy pick for me
If factory-farmed cows weren't artificially overfed and overpopulated, there wouldn't *be* a methane gas issue.As for an easy pick, here were my two choices: heinous cruelty to animals or compassion toward all sentient beings. Easy pick. The latter.
nickdalzell
Extreme Android User
I'm not vegetarian (especially not the fish-eating, egg consuming and milk drinking kind) I'm a vegan. Been that way since 2010. There's a good reason a deer is my avatar. He was a friend's pet for one, and another is with 'identity politics' being mainstream, well, I identify as a deer. I sure have far more in common with them than the morons who hunt them.
nickdalzell
Extreme Android User
I'm still going with eating steak as we always have been doing
That argument can also justify a lot of things we 'always did' including racism, sexism, and so on.
Bearsyzf
Android Expert
Yes, but none of that has to do with being Vegan or Vegetarian.... and that is what this thread is about.
Yes, it does. Loosely. Nick's point is that people have used the "it's always been done" argument to justify all kinds of things we, as a society, find grossly inappropriate now. As a vegan--for ethical reasons--I hope that one day people will look back on the "it's always been done" argument for abusing and killing animals as something that no longer has a place in civilized society. Kind of like slavery...
I started out vegetarian (in August 1988) and eventually transitioned to vegan. As for the fish-eating kind: THEY'RE NOT VEGETARIAN!!! They have their own silly label, pescetarian, and really have no right to identify alongside vegetarians.
When I started out, my thinking was that if an animal *died* in order to obtain whatever the product was, it was unacceptable. So I didn't eat or buy anything containing products from dead animals, not just food but household products, too, like shampoo. Later, as I learned that the dairy industry is just as cruel (if not more) as the meat industry, out went dairy, too!
I remember my initial reaction when I saw your avatar: UGH!! That son-of-a-bitch is a hunter!!
I'm so glad I was so wrong. 
Um, yeah, getting on thin ice here. 
Those exact words used to come out of my mouth. My brother-in-law has been vegetarian--for its health benefits--since the early 1970s. I remember telling him I could NEVER give up meat! Well, live and learn.
What changed it for me was learning about how those neatly-packaged slabs of 'meat' ended up in my supermarket.
I know. I'm trying to be good.Um, yeah, getting on thin ice here.
If it gets moved to P&CA, I'll never see it again...
Same here!
nickdalzell
Extreme Android User
Moody, Jack the Buck (the deer in my avatar) is very much alive. He always had a goofy expression--his tongue always hung out. Kinda like Stimpy from the cartoon Ren and Stimpy.
I just adore deer. They're my favorite animal (like you and peacocks).
I just adore deer. They're my favorite animal (like you and peacocks).
Shhhhh!!! My favorite cat might hear you say that.
I'm glad to know that Jack the Buck is alive and well. Do you know how old he is? Isn't it sad that the *first* thought I had upon seeing your avatar [way back when] was that you're a hunter? No one sees an avatar photo of a pretty cat--or peacock--and thinks, oh, shit, that's a hunter's account!
nickdalzell
Extreme Android User
Sadly, that's the response I always get, from anyone. People just assume 'deer t-shirt, says he's deer lover, he's a killer of deer'. I always responded to them 'If you came across a Chinese or Korean person and wore a dog shirt does anyone expect those people to assume you eat dogs?' and it always shuts them right down.
It's the cross I bear. I haven't seen Jack since 2014, and he was 8 years old then. So he's either getting quite old or is gone (I have no clue how long deer live--can you believe not one single book can answer that one?!)
I also knew a very sweet, playful doe named Daisy from 2009-14. She was very old when I met her (13 in 2009) but I have ALWAYS been a sucker for senior animals, so we truly bonded deeper than anyone can imagine. That was a doe who was more like a dog, as she loved playing fetch, tossed balls around, and smiled like a dog would. She even lied down the way dogs did (turn around three times, plop!). Thankfully she didn't share the dietary desires of canines.
Of my many quotes are:
"I'm a deer hugger, not a deer hunter."
"Damnit Jim! I'm a Deer Lover, not a....(many phrases-I also love Star Trek)"
[after seeing me in a deer t-shirt and asking if I'm a hunter and other person is wearing dog or cat t-shirt] "Do any Asian people stop and ask if you love eating dogs or cats? No? Then why assume someone wearing a deer shirt eats deer?"
It's the cross I bear. I haven't seen Jack since 2014, and he was 8 years old then. So he's either getting quite old or is gone (I have no clue how long deer live--can you believe not one single book can answer that one?!)
I also knew a very sweet, playful doe named Daisy from 2009-14. She was very old when I met her (13 in 2009) but I have ALWAYS been a sucker for senior animals, so we truly bonded deeper than anyone can imagine. That was a doe who was more like a dog, as she loved playing fetch, tossed balls around, and smiled like a dog would. She even lied down the way dogs did (turn around three times, plop!). Thankfully she didn't share the dietary desires of canines.
Of my many quotes are:
"I'm a deer hugger, not a deer hunter."
"Damnit Jim! I'm a Deer Lover, not a....(many phrases-I also love Star Trek)"
[after seeing me in a deer t-shirt and asking if I'm a hunter and other person is wearing dog or cat t-shirt] "Do any Asian people stop and ask if you love eating dogs or cats? No? Then why assume someone wearing a deer shirt eats deer?"
My wife can't go a week without enjoying a nice tube steak.
but recently I have been trying to eat more salads, more veggies, fruits.
I think this must be a cultural thing, specifically American culture. I don't think that would occur to anyone my side of the Pond.
nickdalzell
Extreme Android User
I wish. It seems deer are hated in every country and hunting exists everywhere, despite the claims that it's a "Murican" thing. AFAIK hunting is quite popular also in the UK, with fox, deer, pheasant hunting going quite strong.
Difference is you can wear a fox t-shirt, or even one depicting the name 'Vixen' and not get questions about fox hunting, UK or America. But try that in any country with deer. It's like no one expects a deer lover to exist. I was 16 before I even knew what a deer looked like intact! (my only views at the time being just their heads on walls and cartoons for Christmas, many depicting them incorrectly (Bambi's girlfriend having blue eyes, Frozen's Sven having top front teeth, Rudolph looking like a whitetail)
I wasn't even aware deer were herbivores until I was 20. All the biology books in school dated back to the 60s and claimed they were omnivorous based on anecdotes of them eating birds somewhere.
Our high school and college textbooks being so out of date are one of the reasons the futurists out there think making them totally digital today is the best thing. One of the most common quotes was "our textbooks stopped at Eisenhower!". I am not a fan of digital learning myself so that quote often comes up.
While Monty Python made famous the phrase "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!" I myself coin the phrase "No one expects a deer lover!"
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Actually fox hunting (with dogs and horses) has been illegal for best part of 20 years. Of course there are violations, and enforcement of the laws against the violators is more lax than it should be (it's always been the sport of the wealthy and influential, so no surprise there), but it's very far from common or popular.
Deer stalking does exist, but it is also very much a minority sport. And I don't mean it's a city vs country thing, there is nowhere in the UK where this is anything like as common as hunting is in some US communities. Pheasant shooting (or other birds, such as grouse) is more widespread, less of an elite passtime, but it's still something that only a minority (with significantly above average income) indulge in.
So I'm not saying that these things don't exist, but they are much more marginal than hunting is in many parts of the US, and they are really not part of mainstream culture. And hence my statement that I don't think anyone here would interpret a picture of a deer on a T-shirt as meaning that the wearer liked shooting deer.
Probably discussion of culling deer comes up more often in public than discussion of sport hunting. But I don't think anyone would connect that to a T-shirt either. And I suspect that people who spend less time reading & listening to the news than me would never come across that (TV news tends to be narrower and is unlikely to feature such things).