If Apple sucks so much, how are they so successful?

[Bob Maxey]

Look at the smart cover thing? Apple did not invent the smart cover. It's not even a new concept. Yet they told the world that it was "new" and "magical" and the world sat back and ate it up.

The Apple engineers credited for this patent include Quin Hoellwarth...

 

[Stuntman]

The problems people have with Apple are all centered around their sheer arrogance, their lies and their legions of rabid fanboys who mindlessly defend everything the company does. Every company in the world would kill to do what Apple has done.

...

If you take a look almost any product and then look at the advertising for that product, I'm sure you find the advertising and marketing over exaggerates the capabilities of the product or company. My interest in various gadgets and my knowledge using them allows me to see through some of the advertising and hype. Most people do not have a great deal of knowledge about many of the products they use whether it be smartphones or hand bags. They buy what's cool.

I find that for Apple and their products, the more I know about the products and competing products, the more rediculous I find some of their marketing presentations. I don't think Apple is alone. Apple happens to be the most successful phone/tablet manufacturer now and it is easy to hate the big guy. I felt the same about MS back in the 90's. I don't care for the company or even down right hate them, but I have to admit they make good products that I and/or many people use.

 

[Stuntman]

I ignored the Apple Smart Cover until I discovered it was a tad bit more than a first glance indicates. It quickly snaps to the iPad and it shuts off the iPad when closed;it is magnetized, or uses the powers of Narnia or something like that.

I think the smart cover was pretty cool, the first time I saw it. It's a neat idea. Some of the features I have seen in other products. A magnetic sensor that detects the cover and shuts off or puts the device in stand-by is similar to my Blackberry that turns off the screen while in my holster with a magnetic flap.

 

[Bob Maxey]

If you take a look almost any product and then look at the advertising for that product, I'm sure you find the advertising and marketing over exaggerates the capabilities of the product or company. My interest in various gadgets and my knowledge using them allows me to see through some of the advertising and hype. Most people do not have a great deal of knowledge about many of the products they use whether it be smartphones or hand bags. They buy what's cool.

I find that for Apple and their products, the more I know about the products and competing products, the more rediculous I find some of their marketing presentations. I don't think Apple is alone. Apple happens to be the most successful phone/tablet manufacturer now and it is easy to hate the big guy. I felt the same about MS back in the 90's. I don't care for the company or even down right hate them, but I have to admit they make good products that I and/or many people use.

I saw a TV ad for an Android Tablet and they only focus on the ability to use Flash. Some (RIM/Blackberry) focus on how great their phone is because of the available applications. Leading some to believe that the BB is better because of thousands of applications.

So indeed, other manufacturers are using clever marketing to sell their products, too. And this is how it should be.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I was quite amazed at the device after giving it another look. Do you know if Apple did not invent it, who did? Perhaps not an idea that Apple originated, bit rather, bought from another developer. If that is the case, it is Apple's property.

Blackberry had magnetic covers that controlled the power state of the device many years ago. Apple is claiming they invented it. It's a cool concept for sure, but Apple did not invent it. The mouse was patented 7 years before Apple was even founded. Apple claims they invented. The PC was around before Apple was founded. Apple claims they invented. Ten to twenty years from now, people will claim Apple invented the smartphone. We all know that is not even close to being accurate. This is why so many people hate Apple.

I've seen Apple fanboys running around shouting about how awesome it is that you can make restore discs in Lion and now if your HDD goes south you can re-install from scratch on a brand new hard drive. This is revolutionary. Restore discs have been around for Windows computers since the 90s. It makes you want to claw your own eyes out. Apple has sold these people the idea that something like a freaking restore disc is a brand new innovative piece of technology and the dumb masses just eat it up.

 

[lunatic59]

... Apple has sold these people the idea that something like a freaking restore disc is a brand new innovative piece of technology and the dumb masses just eat it up.

I think it's something more insidious. It's that it is new to Apple and therefore it is now good and important. Prior to Apple having this (or any other feature) it was unimportant and unnecessary.

 

[mikedt]

The problems people have with Apple are all centered around their sheer arrogance, their lies and their legions of rabid fanboys who mindlessly defend everything the company does.

I'm sure both Android and Google have their 'legions of rabid fanboys' as well.

Every company in the world would kill to do what Apple has done.

Apple has sold it's legions of followers on the idea that you pay MORE for an Apple product than you will for something comparable and that this is a GOOD thing. For what you pay for a Mac desktop, you can get a comparable desktop for nearly half the price.

The problems so often with those cheap PC desktops, are that one is facing lousy warranty and tech support, 'Geek Squad', premium-rate phone support, clueless Indian call centres where they don't speak much English or know anything about the PCs, weeks without the PC while it's being repaired, bundled bloatware, advertisements, demonstrations and trialware(e.g. MS Office Trial), being unable to try before one buys. Basically you get what you pay for.

Of course one can avoid this by building a PC desktop one's self, but not everyone can or has the time to do this.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Blackberry had magnetic covers that controlled the power state of the device many years ago. Apple is claiming they invented it. It's a cool concept for sure, but Apple did not invent it. The mouse was patented 7 years before Apple was even founded. Apple claims they invented. The PC was around before Apple was founded. Apple claims they invented. Ten to twenty years from now, people will claim Apple invented the smartphone. We all know that is not even close to being accurate. This is why so many people hate Apple.

I've seen Apple fanboys running around shouting about how awesome it is that you can make restore discs in Lion and now if your HDD goes south you can re-install from scratch on a brand new hard drive. This is revolutionary. Restore discs have been around for Windows computers since the 90s. It makes you want to claw your own eyes out. Apple has sold these people the idea that something like a freaking restore disc is a brand new innovative piece of technology and the dumb masses just eat it up.

The idea that a device like a mouse is not an Apple invention is not in dispute. We had a post about the actual inventor of the mouse. That said, the Royal Canadian Navy developed a trackball that was never sold. Apparently. The idea seemed to be there from 1950 something, just changed into a mouse.

You said, "I've seen Apple fanboys running around shouting about how awesome it is that you can make restore discs in Lion and now if your HDD goes south you can re-install from scratch on a brand new hard drive." Is this Apple's boasting or should the blame go to the fanboys? I seriously doubt Apple claims a restore is their idea, however.

Are you confusing what Apple claims as new with what Apple tells us is new to their OS. Big difference.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I'm sure both Android and Google have their 'legions of rabid fanboys' as well.

Those fanboys are irritating as well, but the public usually sees them as fanboys and doesn't typically run around repeating the claims of said fanboys as truth.

The problems so often with those cheap PC desktops, are that one is facing lousy warranty and tech support, 'Geek Squad', premium-rate phone support, clueless Indian call centres where they don't speak much English or know anything about the PCs, weeks without the PC while it's being repaired, bundled bloatware, advertisements, demonstrations and trialware(e.g. MS Office Trial), being unable to try before one buys. Basically you get what you pay for.

That's not really true at all. An iMac will set you back $1200. An HP desktop with a 21" monitor, same processor, bigger hard drive, and more RAM sells for $800. It's 2/3rds the price of the Mac, comes from a reputable brand name that offers English speaking tech support (for the home stuff anyway, the business end is outsourced to some non-English speaking company) and is quality hardware. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Apple's tech support is head and shoulder's better. Is it really worth paying $400 more just to get better tech support?

 

[A.Nonymous]

I think it's something more insidious. It's that it is new to Apple and therefore it is now good and important. Prior to Apple having this (or any other feature) it was unimportant and unnecessary.

I used to work with a guy who's iPhone went south and he was in a pissing match with ATT so he went and bought an Android phone with another carrier. (This was before the iPhone came to VZW.) He constantly bitched and moaned about how the centralized notifications sucked monkey balls because they drained the battery so fast it was ridiculous. Then the Almighty and all-Arrogant One announced that iOS 5 will have centralized notifications he went on a long rant about how centralized notifications were the coolest thing that had ever been implemented on a mobile OS and how new and innovative it was. He proceeded to complement Android for taking Apple's cue and implementing this and then bashed other OSes that don't have this feature. I nearly went insane.

 

[Covart]

Blackberry had magnetic covers that controlled the power state of the device many years ago. Apple is claiming they invented it. It's a cool concept for sure, but Apple did not invent it. The mouse was patented 7 years before Apple was even founded. Apple claims they invented. The PC was around before Apple was founded. Apple claims they invented. Ten to twenty years from now, people will claim Apple invented the smartphone. We all know that is not even close to being accurate. This is why so many people hate Apple.

Apple never claimed to have invented the mouse! They were the first company to include it in a mass produced pc though. It was Apple's forward thinking that made the mouse mainstream.
And unless you know of another company that made consumer pc's (consumer being the key word) prior to 1976, we're all ears. the Altair was nothing but a box with linking lights. Additionally, neither USB, nor lightpeak, were invented by Apple, but it was Apple that made them into mass production and used as we see today.

I have yet to see Apple claim they invented something they did not, but I have seen plenty of people like you misconstrue the facts to make it appear so.

 

[southzeztpdot]

Those fanboys are irritating as well, but the public usually sees them as fanboys and doesn't typically run around repeating the claims of said fanboys as truth.



That's not really true at all. An iMac will set you back $1200. An HP desktop with a 21" monitor, same processor, bigger hard drive, and more RAM sells for $800. It's 2/3rds the price of the Mac, comes from a reputable brand name that offers English speaking tech support (for the home stuff anyway, the business end is outsourced to some non-English speaking company) and is quality hardware. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Apple's tech support is head and shoulder's better. Is it really worth paying $400 more just to get better tech support?

Are you really trying to compare an all in one flat panel computer to a desktop with a separate monitor?

some of you guys in this thread are trying too hard to hate. Apple is a high end computing company dispite what you guys think and they charge high end prices and give high end customer service.

Buy a Mercedes and buy a honda and compare the support you get. Basically the difference between HP and Apple.

Now when you directly talk about support remember that Apple has RETAIL LOCATIONS you can get serviced at compared to HP where you have NO locations and and more than likely if you call you will be transferred to india. For those of us who want to the 400 is worth it.

 

[lordofthereef]

Actually, Mercedes support is terrible. And so is the quality of their vehicles, ESPECIALLY compared to Honda. I am not talking luxury, I am talking something that doesn't cost you thousands in repairs the minute the warranty is gone. Mercs have one of the lowest consumer quality ratings of all cars currently.

 

[lunatic59]

Are you really trying to compare an all in one flat panel computer to a desktop with a separate monitor?

From a consumer standpoint, an all-in-one looks sleeker, takes up less space and is easily incorporated into home decor. From a serviceability standpoint, not on your nelly. When a component goes on an iMac, the whole thing goes in the shop.

some of you guys in this thread ...

And "some of you guys in this thread ..." are trying to hard to prove Apple is better than (insert competing technology company.)

Apple's support is better. Apple customers have paid for that privilege. The problem I have is with Apple you have no option NOT to pay for the privilege. Personally I don't think that level of support is a value for the premium.

 

[jroc]

Are you really trying to compare an all in one flat panel computer to a desktop with a separate monitor?

some of you guys in this thread are trying too hard to hate. Apple is a high end computing company dispite what you guys think and they charge high end prices and give high end customer service.

Buy a Mercedes and buy a honda and compare the support you get. Basically the difference between HP and Apple.

Now when you directly talk about support remember that Apple has RETAIL LOCATIONS you can get serviced at compared to HP where you have NO locations and and more than likely if you call you will be transferred to india. For those of us who want to the 400 is worth it.

How about if I get a PC with better specs, custom built for less....or for the same amount I get a PC custom built with way better specs....

Its not always about what you can afford...sometimes its about most bang for the buck or less bucks.

Actually, Mercedes support is terrible. And so is the quality of their vehicles, ESPECIALLY compared to Honda. I am not talking luxury, I am talking something that doesn't cost you thousands in repairs the minute the warranty is gone. Mercs have one of the lowest consumer quality ratings of all cars currently.

I laugh when folks try to use luxury cars as analogies with Apple... For me, I would pick Honda, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan, Infinity over Mercedes any day...

 

[A.Nonymous]

I have yet to see Apple claim they invented something they did not, but I have seen plenty of people like you misconstrue the facts to make it appear so.

From Jobs presentation at WWDC 2011

(speaking of iCloud)

"This is the first time we've seen this in the music industry -- no charge for multiple downloads to different devices."

Fact - Amazon Cloud Player had been doing this for 2-3 months before Jobs announcement.

(Jobs on iPhoto)

"It's going to bring the cloud to photos."

Fact - Picasa on Android already does this natively and there apps for a any other number of photo sharing services that will do the same thing. Cloud photo storage is not new at all.

(Jobs on iClouds document storage)

Documents in the Cloud really completes our iOS document storage story. A lot of us have been working for 10 years to get rid of the file system so the user doesn't have to learn about it."

Fact - Google Docs has done this for years. Microsoft has a service that does the same thing. I'm sure there are a lot of other alternatives. Jobs makes it out that this is something new.

That's just the first part of the press event and that's only one event.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Apple's support is better. Apple customers have paid for that privilege. The problem I have is with Apple you have no option NOT to pay for the privilege. Personally I don't think that level of support is a value for the premium.

Clarify please. Are you saying Apple support can only come from Apple or are you saying when you need support it is costly compared to a WinBox?

I use locally based 12 year olds and Google to solve my support problems.

 

[mikedt]

Those fanboys are irritating as well, but the public usually sees them as fanboys and doesn't typically run around repeating the claims of said fanboys as truth.

Fanboys are fanboys, whatever side they're on, all idiots.

That's not really true at all. An iMac will set you back $1200. An HP desktop with a 21" monitor, same processor, bigger hard drive, and more RAM sells for $800. It's 2/3rds the price of the Mac, comes from a reputable brand name that offers English speaking tech support (for the home stuff anyway, the business end is outsourced to some non-English speaking company) and is quality hardware. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Apple's tech support is head and shoulder's better. Is it really worth paying $400 more just to get better tech support?

Sounds like HP might be the exception to the rule. Although a friend of mine has had experience of HP repair service in the UK. Five weeks to get a defective DVD drive replaced on an HP Pavilion laptop, because they had to order the part from overseas.

Sony's after-sales support and service can be truly awful, I've had experience of this. Vaio PCs can cost the same if not more than their equivalent Apple computers. Buying a Sony PC is a horrible experience as well. Ever been in a SonyStyle store? Lies, bullshit, hard upsell, and one can't try the PCs before buying, because they're either non-functioning dummies or they're locked-down running some demo.

 

[A.Nonymous]

From a consumer standpoint, an all-in-one looks sleeker, takes up less space and is easily incorporated into home decor. From a serviceability standpoint, not on your nelly. When a component goes on an iMac, the whole thing goes in the shop.

That's something I was not aware of. To me that's a huge fault. There used to be PCs that had the same warranty service policy. I hated that.

Apple's support is better. Apple customers have paid for that privilege. The problem I have is with Apple you have no option NOT to pay for the privilege. Personally I don't think that level of support is a value for the premium.

As I calculated in an earlier post, on a new computer, that premium you're paying is about $400 on an iMac. Whether that premium is worth paying or not is entirely up to you. Personally, I don't think $400 for tech support on a computer is ever worth paying.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Sounds like HP might be the exception to the rule. Although a friend of mine has had experience of HP repair service in the UK. Five weeks to get a defective DVD drive replaced on an HP Pavilion laptop, because they had to order the part from overseas.

You can get a similarly priced Dell with the same specs. I use Dell and HP as examples as they're the two biggest PC sellers in the US. If you look at the discount sellers like Gateway, Asus, etc..... you can get something a whole lot cheaper though you may give up quality of equipment, quality of tech support, etc...... Don't get me started on Enterprise support from HP and Dell as it tends to be extremely horrid. I have no clue what kind of enterprise support Apple has so I can't comment on it and we're talking about consumer stuff anyway.

Sony's after-sales support and service can be truly awful, I've had experience of this. Vaio PCs can cost the same if not more than their equivalent Apple computers. Buying a Sony PC is a horrible experience as well. Ever been in a SonyStyle store? Lies, bullshit, hard upsell, and one can't try the PCs before buying.

Sony thinks they have a premium brand name and therefore can charge more. They may have back in the day, but they certainly don't now. I've not been impressed with any of their recent products.

 

[lunatic59]

Clarify please. Are you saying Apple support can only come from Apple or are you saying when you need support it is costly compared to a WinBox?

I use locally based 12 year olds and Google to solve my support problems.

I'm saying if i wanted a Mac Pro for 20% less and opt out of the support, I don't have that option. Give me a basic warranty and i'll manage my own hardware, TYVM.

 

[Vihzel]

I went to a public government meeting today (at least that's what I think it's called) and saw that about 7 or so of the government workers in there had iPads or iPad 2s. I was really surprised to see so many of them being used during that meeting. I also know that airlines are experimenting with the use of iPads in replacement to regular screens.

I have a feeling that the iPad is just going to dominate for a while like the iPhone dominated for a while. The thing is though... the iPad has already penetrated so many different markets in number while the Android tabs are still trying to even be recognized.

I don't think the Android tabs will have the same kind of success like the Android phones have had since this is a different market. I know that there will be a definite increase in the amount of Android tabs but I wonder how long it will take for it to have a respectable amount of market share in the tablet world.

 

[Stuntman]

Actually, Mercedes support is terrible. And so is the quality of their vehicles, ESPECIALLY compared to Honda. I am not talking luxury, I am talking something that doesn't cost you thousands in repairs the minute the warranty is gone. Mercs have one of the lowest consumer quality ratings of all cars currently.

That's just great. My wife wants to get rid of our Honda and get a Mercedes.

I don't think the Android tabs will have the same kind of success like the Android phones have had since this is a different market. I know that there will be a definite increase in the amount of Android tabs but I wonder how long it will take for it to have a respectable amount of market share in the tablet world.

Would 30% be respectable? Android has that now: Android now at 30% of tablet market - Phone Arena

 

[Vihzel]

Would 30% be respectable? Android has that now: Android now at 30% of tablet market - Phone Arena

That's actually really shocking to me. I've never seen another person use one in public before. I definitely have seen a lot of iPads around. What I had in mind though were the dedicated Honeycomb tablets like XOOM, Galaxy Tab 10.1, and so forth and not Android OS put onto a tablet computer. I've seen a good amount of marketing thanks to Verizon but other than that... none in public... which would explain the <1% that Honeycomb tablets have.

Maybe I'll be seeing Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 ones since they're equally priced and considered to be the top or one of the very best Honeycomb tablets out right now. I had one for a while but due to certain issues... I returned it for an iPad 2.

 

[Stuntman]

I was shocked when I came across that story, too. I didn't expect those numbers until next year. From what I heard, the Xoom was rather disappointing. I'm interested in the Eee Pad and Galaxy Tab 10.1. I want to get an opportunity to try them out and compare them to the experience I had when I tried out the iPad 2.